There are also other, cheaper alternatives for retrofit that provide fresh outside air heated 'for free' on sunny days -- www.solarwall.com. It's a black box/airchamber on a roof or southern/western wall that ties into the central air system. It sucks in fresh outside air, the sun warms it, and then it blows it into the building. Supplimental in nature, and doesn't work well during grey days and when the temp is sub-zero, but can dramatically reduce the length of the heating season.

Posted by Caliente on March 7, 2006 at 10:19 AM

For detailed information about the Unit 4 school bond referendum, visit www.u4excellence.org

Posted by u4excellence on March 8, 2006 at 11:15 PM

$66,000,000. Yes, let's just throw more money at the schools. It's worked so well in the past.

Posted by whome on March 9, 2006 at 8:16 AM

The principal at Dr. Howard has made an effort to make things ban enough at that school to get a new school. Time to do works towards education instead of toward hand outs.

Posted by wilsona on March 9, 2006 at 1:31 PM

The Champaign School's proposal to spend $66 million has concerned and frustrated. I'll admit, I am no longer a resident of Champaign, so my voice may be less valid than one from in district. However, I was a resident for the majority of my life, and my 2 school aged kids were pupils at Garden Hills for K-5 and K-2, respectively.

I have experience with the school district and the way it operates. There's a lot of talk about facilities, new schools and improvements. Air conditioning, remodeling, expansion, parking lots. What happened to books? Teacher's raises? Increases in salary or benefits for aides, enrichment specialists, support staff and the myriad other people that touch children's lives on a daily basis in a school setting- those are things I want money allocated for.

Give students the support they really need- strong teachers and well funded classrooms. Quit asking teachers to pay for their own supplies, copies and snacks. Basic needs- like books, teachers, aides and support staff are under funded. "Extras" like ESL, gifted, foreign language, art, music, band, choir and other exploratory learning classes are barely holding steady, or being slashed at an alarming rate. With the focus on No Child Left Behind, the approach to the whole child has drastically diminished.

Kids are no longer "Jane" and "Billy"- they are white, black, Hispanic, male or female. Kids have become statistics. Administrating teaching has become a numbers game. It's no longer about the well rounded student at the end- it's about how well a kid can spout certain piles of information at certain times when it comes to funding issues.

I have serious reservations about millions of dollars of spending on capital improvements after last year' extended contract negotiations with support staff last winter and with teachers this past fall as well.

There were repeated comments from the Champaign School Board concerning budgetary constrictions disallowing even modest cost of living adjustments for the most important assets the schools offer- personnel. It is seriously upsetting that the school board was willing to spend $25,000 per DAY for temporary staff to replace support staff members like bus drivers, lunch room servers and janitors, but not willing to spend $150,000 over 3 years to offer these critical personnel a raise. At $25,000 per day, the cost of temporary staff would overtake the $150,000 cost of raises in less than one week. 260 non salaried employees in the school district averaged $192 per year in raises with the negotiated contract. These employees are worth far more than $192 more a year.

There were many instances in negotiations when the management appeared to be callous, uncaring, and dismissive of the concerns and complaints of the people that directly serve our children. If the goal of educating our children is excellence, every single person involved in their lives need to be valued and treated with dignity. A culture of respect and success for the adults participating in teaching, feeding, transporting and cleaning after our kids can help strengthen and encourage everyone. At least twice I have seen reports that there are seats for an extra strand of children at Garden Hills. My question is quite seriously: Where? The janitor's closet has been transformed into an office for a part time principal/student services director. Three people share a small closet like room for social services.

Storage rooms have been transformed into settings for language therapists, remedial reading instructors and other enrichment staff. Many of the classrooms I saw last year had 25 kids or more. I'll admit that I noticed a very serious drop in the number of students in classrooms for the older grades. 5th grade classrooms were either very well managed or had far fewer students than lower levels. I seriously wonder what implications that has for the middle school Garden Hills is "pooled" to; especially when I heard anecdotal comments of overcrowding in the same grades at other schools that pool to different middle schools. Middle schools and their needs have been almost entirely overlooked in the proposal. How does that serve our kids?

The middle schools are currently overpopulated and overcrowded. There are repeated stories of violence- both among students and escalating against teachers. Several teachers left our middle schools rather than face the very real dangers of instructing at that level. For many children, the middle school years are the most critical in who they become as adults. This age group needs better services- not drastically reduced opportunities to learn new things. I understand "funding" is an issue. Yet again, I take offense at the proposal that teacher's aren't worth it. I appreciate the need for improved facilities. I seriously agree that smaller, older schools need a lot of well designed changes to accommodate today's students and staff.

Dr. Howard and Southside are both overcrowded and need updating. Central is a landlocked school, and there have been more students than room there for 15-20 years. I very much agree that Savoy needs its own grade school. Taking the Savoy demand out of the students vying for seats for South Champaign schools will increase spaces for Champaign children in those schools. Savoy parents have certainly made it clear they don't want busing (who does?) and want a school near them designated as a "priority". Savoy parents have (for the most part) convinced the school board that they have a right to a service that many other students do not get- a neighborhood school. A Savoy school does not serve Unit 4 best- it serves Savoy best. I don't think Champaign should pay for Savoy's needs. I believe that Savoy would be far better served to start its own school district- to assure that Savoy children attend Savoy schools, and to avoid the consent decree issues Champaign faces. Convincing Savoy of that issue may be a difficult thing- but to serve its residents, I believe Savoy needs to provide its own services.

The reservations I have stem mostly from the needs I see children in Unit 4 schools as having. Yes, they need updated schools and modern facilities. Yes, they deserve comfortable settings and equitable environments. Yes, they are entitled to better than they are currently getting. At the same time, these students deserve well funded staff. They deserve teachers, aides, support staff, office personnel, lunch room workers, bus drivers and other vital members of their school environment that are fairly paid and given strong backing by the administration. The parents of these students deserve the knowledge that Unit 4 administrators are being mindful of expenditures.

Parents deserve to know that fee increases for required services (like books and drivers' education) are a reflection of budgetary concerns, and that more spending is not always the answer. I sincerely support better services and facilities for students. I do not do so at the expense of teachers or staff. Unit 4 administrators have done a lot of legwork trying to convince parents that this referendum was put together with a consensus- but building sites have already been set with no local input (until after the fact) and much of this proposal is being treated as a done deal.

Unit 4 deserves more openness and more than just shiny buildings.

Posted by Hoov on March 16, 2006 at 2:58 PM

Are you kidding? Cancel the school and do what? It's pathetic that parents that live on the north end of town don't want their kids going to Stratoon because it's in an unsafe neighborhood. Now the school district proposes putting a new school on the north end of town in a safe neighborhood and parents complain about it. Maybe we should builf 6 empty schools on Market St in order to fulfill the requirements of this ridiculous consent decree that never should have been entered into anyway.

Posted by wilsona on March 16, 2006 at 3:12 PM

Wait a minute, we are to vote on Tuesday for something that they haven't settled the details on as of the Friday before? Ridiculous! And yes, Stratton is half empty and that's north of University. Fill that up first then come talk to me.

Posted by whome on March 16, 2006 at 4:11 PM

"White people are going to have to change their minds about going into the black community, about their children going to school on the north end," he said.

Mr. Culver seeks "equality." Rather than doing anything to help the black community, he has chosen to drag whites down to whatever extent he is able. The result will be "equality" but will not be good for either the white or the black commmunities of Champaign. When he is done, and moves on to a larger better paying district, we wiill be the ones stuck with greater racial animosity AND worse schools for everybody.

Posted by willie06 on March 16, 2006 at 4:23 PM

It is troubling that Unit 4 is being held accountable in a manner of direct cause, for statistics that repeat themselves in communities throughout this country. And the implicit portrayal of this community as racist through statements like: if only we could embrace the idea that ALL children are capable of learning, has become insulting given the effort, money and years spent thus far trying to satisfy the consent decree. Unit 4 is being held hostage and irrepairably drained financially for things it did not directly cause. Sure it is the right thing to do, to try and do as much as can be done to help all children have a positive outcome in education and life. But, there needs to be some fudiciary responsibility here and a healthy balance between what the schools should be expected to do and be held accountable for, AND the role parentS play in their child's education and outcome. There really is only so much that schools and this community can do, given that money doesn't grow on trees! Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Maybe from misperceptions regarding how people achieve positive outcomes in life (and, yes, despite obstacles). Very few kids grow up with unlimited resources and money to assure their success in life. For not readily apparent reasons, the expectation of some seems to be that the sky's the limit when it comes to the Unit 4 School District in Champaign Illinois. The district and community 'owes' more than there is to possibly give. And unfortunately much of the lip service paid to the spirit of the consent decree comes across as somewhat disingenuous. There is little equality (for ALL children) in a School Choice system where kids run the risk of being rejected from their choice schools because they are of the wrong race. Another lawsuit waiting to happen. Fighting alleged discrimination with blatant discrimination. How far we have not come since the visionary dreams of Martin Luther King.

Posted by Lotte on March 16, 2006 at 10:29 PM

It is important to clear up a widespread misperception about current student capacity in Unit 4 schools.

Stratton has 26 classrooms that are limited to 20 students per class. This yields a total seating capacity of around 520 students. As of January, there were 330 students enrolled at Stratton, which at first glance suggests that nearly 200 seats must be sitting empty. However, this is not the case. According to the Family Information Center, there are currently just 60 seats available in the entire school.

People who claim there are over 200 empty seats at Stratton are considering only designated classroom capacity rather than the way the rooms are already being used. Here is how Stratton is currently allocating the nearly 200 seats of empty space:

* Three classrooms are being used every day for early childhood intervention programs with pre-kindergarten students.

* One classroom is being used every day as a computer lab.

* One classroom is being used every day as an art room.

* Other areas in Stratton house a reading recovery lab for training teachers.

There are no empty classrooms at Stratton, because Unit 4 is using the space to house a range of educational programs that enrich the experience of district students.

Posted by u4excellence on March 17, 2006 at 10:20 AM

By law, referendum money of this sort can only be spent on construction, not staffing. So while the staffing and fee issues you mention are important, solutions to those problems come through the school board and cannot be directly addressed by the referendum.

However, the referendum does indirectly address these issues in an important way. Currently, the Unit 4 district is required by the terms of the Consent Decree to spend between $1.5 million and $2 million per year to cover all legal and consulting fees

related to the decree. That's $2 million per year that isn't going to staffing and other important district priorities.

Until the Consent Decree is lifted, the district will have to continue diverting this money to legal fees instead of spending it on educating our children.

The Consent Decree cannot be lifted until 2 sets of new K-5th classrooms are built north of University Avenue. The referendum, if it passes, would do precisely this. If the referendum does not pass, the district will be forced to continue spending those millions on lawyer's fees.

The district has made substanial progress on all areas of the Consent Decree but one. Test scores are up, and the achievement gap is down. The main impediment that remains before the Decree can be lifted is the construction of new classroom space.

Please vote yes on the referendum this Tuesday. For more information, visit www.u4excellence.org

Posted by u4excellence on March 17, 2006 at 10:48 AM

As a Unit 4 teacher, I am appalled. Once again, people in the community are doing their level best to discredit the district in the eyes of the community. And what great timing, just days before the referendum vote.

At the board meeting earlier this week, site options were presented. The amount of land needed to build a new school defines potential sites. The consent decree mandates that it be north of University. These two criteria left only 3 options: declaring emminent domain and displacing 60 families that the new building is designed to serve; placing a new school between a railroad track and asphalt company (major safety issues); or the suggested location off Bradley. Now there are those who say that this location does not meet the "spririt" of the decree.

Where were those voices way back at the beginning when the district initially suggested the changes to BTW and Garden Hills in lieu of a new building? At that time the complaint was that just refurbishing those schools didn't meet the spirit of the decree because the addressed population should have a new school.

I fail to see how it can be both ways. To me, this delay merely serves to provide opponents with another "see, the district can't be trusted" weapon, when in fact, the district has been operating in good faith and it is the opponents who block every turn. My greatest fear, besides a failed referendum, which as a teacher I can assure you is desperately needed for ALL Champaign students whether they be black, white, green, or purple, is that the this will be a factor in extending the consent decree, which several prominent opponents have recently suggested. Ask any teacher in the district and you will find that we all would prefer the $2,000,000 in annual legal fees be used to provide for our students, not lawyers. How anyone can, in good conscience, railroad this referendum in such a manner, and seek to extend the decree is beyond me. It continues to appear that these people are seeking personal gain and attention, not the best interests of the district students. The fact that a number of these opponents are parents of district students is even more astonishing. Shame on you!

I urge all voters to please continue to support the referendum. This schol is just one issue of many, and it is not fair to penalize the remaining schools because of a few people who cannot seem to seek a common good over their own. In the end, referendum money is strictly monitored, and the public can rest assured that, despite area naysayers, the money raised will be spent appropriately and honestly to support ALL Unit 4 students.

Posted by teacher on March 17, 2006 at 11:02 AM

I second the comments of "teacher". Many people are unaware of the poor conditions in many of our elementary buildings. We are having to teach kids in closets and hallways, because our 50-year-old schools (older still in the cases of Dr. Howard and Southside) were built before the era of computer labs, English as a Second Language, counselling, learning enrichment, and special education.

Full details of the referendum, including floor plans for school-by-school renovations, are available at www.u4excellence.org

Whether you plan to support or oppose the referendum, I would hope that you take the time to get informed about the conditions of our schools, what the referendum would do, and why proponents say it is so badly needed.

Posted by u4excellence on March 17, 2006 at 11:52 AM

I have a great idea! If the existing schools are too cramped, we should build 2 new schools and lift the burden. Maybe we should just do that and maintenance and save ourselves millions of dollars. As for clearing up this widespread misconception about Stratton...You are correct...The classrooms aren't filled, so the district is becoming creative and utilizing the space for other programs. Th ta doesn't change the fact that families don't want to send their children over there and won't want to send them to Market or Bradley either. We as a community all know(even if we won't say it) that nobody prefers to live on the North end of town and anyone that can afford it would move to the South side of town. How many people that live on the North end would prefer to live in Cherry Hills and attend Barkstall? I'm sick of hearing people say that people are going to have to get over their problems and become willing to send their kids into those communities. Not even the people in those communities want to send their children to those communities.

Posted by wilsona on March 17, 2006 at 5:15 PM

According to the Unit 4 administration, the comparison made in this article between 1999 and 2005 enrollments contains a serious error. The 1999 numbers show higher enrollments at several schools because at that time, students in the pre-kindergarten intervention programs were counted as part of the kindergarten enrollment in each host school. By 2005, the pre-kindergarten enrollment was considered separate from kindergarten enrollment each of these schools. Once those pre-k students are taken out of the 1999 count, the administration says there is no decline in enrollment numbers between 1999 and 2005.

For more information on the referendum and the reasons why it has been proposed, visit www.u4excellence.org

Posted by u4excellence on March 17, 2006 at 10:51 PM

There already IS a new state of the art school in the heart of a black community...Stratton. Why is Imani Bazzell saying that other children will be getting two such schools while the black community essentially goes without? Stratton is like a Barkstall north of University Avenue. MOST children in this district don't have a Stratton in their neighborhood! Go ahead and take more legal action, despite the fact that the Boulder Ridge site satisfies the consent decree AND considers the financial logistics of a district that is under dire financial constraints from trying to satisfy the consent decree. Spending is not unlimited just because there is a consent decree in place. It has reached the point of having to go to tax payers for more money. Launching more legal action against Unit4 will serve ALL children of this district most well, won't it. Continue to drain this community financially and watch people leave with the very tax dollars you're after. It's already happening.

Posted by Lotte on March 18, 2006 at 11:57 AM

I think that it is interesting that there is now opposition from both the extreme right, opposed to any taxation to 'invest in the community' AND the group which feels slighted by the location of Boulder Ridge, practically in Mahomet.

If the referendum does not pass, it will be a VERY bleak day for the school district which should be one of the pillars of our community. As extremists on both ends of the political spectrum up in arms over the issue of the size of the budget, the electorate will not have an opportunity to vote on what is MOST needed out of the referendum-- critical maintenance that needs to be done on the schools that the community already has. I do not feel that the Boulder Ridge location was very well considered and the lack of dialogue on such a sensitive subject is very alarming. At the same time, it is a VERY logical location given the fact that land in C-U is available in every direction, outside of town.

ALL of the schools should be looked upon as an asset of the whole community and it is our responsibility to maintain them together. If we the electorate fail to act responsibly and support maintaining those community assets we already have, the 'cost' in the long run will be far higher and we will all share the costs of abandoning this responsibility as the schools go down the tubes which will likely have negative, long-term consequences for property values all over town.

Posted by MrHappy23 on March 18, 2006 at 3:37 PM

I wish he media would quit refering to Imani Bazzell and her compatriots as community activists (although this story actually just said "activist"). She is not speaking for the community, she is speaking for a special interest group. The members of the school board are the true community activists--they ran for and were elected to their positions. They look at issues from all sides before making a decision tht is good for the WHOLE community. Ms. Bazzell's push to extend the referendum is further evidence of her lac of concern for the entire Unit 4 community. As a Unit 4 parent, she should be as sickened as the rest of us to think tht $2,000,000/yr is being spent on legal fees instead of our children. Asking for an extension is irresponsible and reprehnsible. When Ms. Bazzell becomes a member of the board, then she will have the right to be considered a "community activist". Let's hope she learns the meaning of the word community first.

Posted by teacher on March 18, 2006 at 9:35 PM

People in Champaign need not look beyond our state borders to see the problems that can arise from mismanaged planning and community relations in the school district. Perhaps the News-Gazette can remind us all of what happened in Rockford and what the outcome has been. It might be sobering and broaden the perspective. Aren't factors such as the quality of education, student:teacher ration, collegiate placing, and extracurricular activies more important than physical location? Champaign is still small enough (unlike Rockford) that even the longest trek across town only takes a few minutes. Let's not forget how close we are here and that we are all connected in this community. Let's keep the focus on the most important issues.

Posted by Seykick on March 20, 2006 at 11:11 AM

Isn't it ironic that Savoy would like to keep the buses of MTD out (for reasons that are probably a little more sinister than what is claimed) yet more than welcomes the tax dollars of the neighboring community to build a new school there ?

Posted by NoSchool4U on March 22, 2006 at 8:50 AM

Isn't it interesting that Savoy would like to keep the buses of MTD out (for reasons that are probably a little more sinister than what is claimed) yet more than welcomes the tax dollars of the neighboring community to build a new school there ? No new schools in Savoy with outside tax money until it can resolve if it wants to be part of the larger community.

Posted by NoSchool4U on March 22, 2006 at 8:54 AM

Thankfully this thing was soundly defeated. So what's the deal with Stratton? I keep hearing that school is only half to two thirds filled. Maybe now the district will actually go about filling that school.

Posted by whome on March 22, 2006 at 10:26 AM

You can take an underperforming black school, and move the gifted program into it. The school will perform better, and Mr. Culver will record the achievement onto his resume. But, will is help the black kids? Will it help the gifted kids? No! It is one example of the harm that this superintendent is causing to Champaign through his gaming of our system.

I did not vote against a school funding program, I voted against more busing for Champaign students. I voted against Arthur Culver and his racially divisive policies and attitude. When Mr. Culver is long gone to a bigger job at a large urban district, we will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. Greater racial animosity is bad for Champaign, even if it is good for superintendent Culver's career.

With 6 unused classrooms at Stratton, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to find room for more north side students.

Posted by willie06 on March 22, 2006 at 10:55 AM

Does "noschool4u" think that Savoy residents don't pay taxes to the school district? This referendum was doomed from the beginning, but I hope other voters were more well-informed than this.

Posted by brad on March 22, 2006 at 1:32 PM

Space isn't the only issue. Quality is also an issue. Champaign is well on its way to having 'inner-city' quality schools/busing because people aren't willing to adequately fund the school district. The state's system is broken, but locales can at least fund their schools through property taxes. But, no, the people have spoken and said, "we don't care about the children." What makes it worse is that the school district brought it on itself by totally screwing up the referendum by proposing totally awful ideas, then wavering on it. Who would support such a huge price tag without more information on where/what was going to be done!? Maybe some planning will be done and a solid proposal will be in place for November... "School of choice" should be available to every gradeschooler in an urban area, it is a shame that Champaign can't figure out a way to make it happen.

Posted by TimIL on March 22, 2006 at 2:23 PM

We voted no because of the Staley Road School and the associated busing. And because the District did not seem ready for prime time. If necessary, give up the A/C and use the money to buy a nice intown piece of school property, or redo Washington. Let's hold to the spirit of the consent decree and stay in town, not out in the country.

Posted by RL on March 22, 2006 at 2:26 PM

yes brad, the issue is more complicated than that.....the taxes Savoy pays now does go to the education of its children presently, whichever school they attend, but building a school in Savoy and the related educational and economic benefits will mean that the taxes will be disproportionately distributed. Frankly I think we should be building schools and taking care of our children but I simply wanted to point out the irony with the MTD issue. It is almost always better to sacrifice for the greater good of our communities.

Posted by NoSchool4U on March 22, 2006 at 5:10 PM

When the county/city starts putting an explanation of why I have to pay 3% per year in property taxes (exponential growth), then perhaps I might be willing to pay more. Until then, I will vote down all ballot measures to raise taxes.

Posted by nomoney on March 22, 2006 at 5:23 PM

There are no empty classrooms at Stratton. I've been there. Check NCLB, you can't pad scores by adding gifted kids. If gifted kids do well, but low-income kids don't do well, the school is labeled failing. Champaign schools are improving, but if this community doesn't support them, we will all lose.

Posted by savymom on March 22, 2006 at 6:24 PM

Why would the Board support a proposal that does little to even out bussing disparities between white and black students? A school in Savoy that white kids could walk to, another school in the midst of a white subdivision, two more opportunities for black families to be disenfranchised. Does anyone ever think of the disproportionately negative impact these policies will have on black families? Does anyone even care? The opposite of love is not hate, its indifference. This proposed referendum was asbout as indifferent as you can get. Surely, we can do better.

Posted by Truth on March 22, 2006 at 9:53 PM

The referendum would have really helped BTW, Garden Hills and Dr. Howard. BTW and Garden Hills have plenty of space for neighborhood students. To put another school near those schools would be crazy when the neighborhood can't fill them now. It is insulting to assume that no one cares about black students. I voted to spend millions to improve schools in the northeast and build a new school in the northwest that the school district said would give 150 African American kids a proximity A. Sounded like a good deal for black kids and white kids. Right now, I am considering private school for my daughter because I'm sick of the way the adults fight in Unit 4. I really like the diversity in the schools, but I don't like name calling and accusations like I've seen lately.

Posted by savymom on March 22, 2006 at 10:50 PM

Thank you, RL. Let's redevelop property in the heart of the north side of Champaign, giving the residents there a high quality facility IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. The land will cost more than a comparable parcel on the fringe of the city, but that is the price we all have to pay for making the easy choice (fringe expansion) in the past.

Hopefully we send the consultants home and have some heart to heart discussion with the people who have to vote 'yes' on the next referendum.

Open note to Unit 4: Let's build 1 new school for $15 million which is actually in the city, and earmark another $10 - $20 million to take care of aging infrastructure needs which are pressing.

Posted by BigE on March 23, 2006 at 7:20 AM

If we really cared about black kids would we have consent decree ordering us to treat them equitably? Would we sit quietly as the Board fails to meet the terms of this consent decree? Would we ignore the disproportionate numbers of black students that are suspended, expelled, and dropout every year? I graduated from Champaign schools and readily admit that it is a system filled with hardworking, loving educators that care about ALL students, regardless of race, class, or color. However, we cannot continue to ignore and make exscuese for a history of systemic discrimination against black families in our city. We need a referendum that addresses this issue first. Savoy can wait--black kids have been bussed for decades, they can hold out for a few more years. AC can wait--we've sweated through August and September for over 100 years, five more won't kill us. More strands on the northside, that minimize the need for bussing within the black community, cannot wait--we have court orders to rectify this, and other equity issues, with all deliberate speed. Currently, we are woefully behind schedule. Let's do what we are supposed to do now, and work on the things we want to do later.

Posted by Truth on March 23, 2006 at 8:39 AM

I agree with Truth, BigE, and RL. You all make very cogent points. To savymom, I would like to say that if we put a quality educational program in a school, the children will come. Do you remember when BTW was a magnet school? Parents would have (figuratively) killed to get their children in BTW. They had a waiting list. No one seemed to mind, at that time, sending their children to a school on the north side of town.

Also, some people feel like Stratton has more than enough space to house north side students. If we have an understanding of the consent decree then we would know that we are under racial fairness guidelines. If every north side student went to Stratton, the school would be racially identifiable. The whole reason we bus kids all over is so that schools are integrated and cannot be racially identifiable. That's why Stratton is not fully enrolled.

Our children deserve quality schools providing a quality education with quality staff and quality leadership. I think there were a multitude of reasons this referendum failed, but I believe that the idea that students who attend certain schools are still not getting the same education as others (in say, Barkstall) as well as the fact that black students would still end up being bused to unfamiliar far-away neighborhoods played a large role.

Hopefully the Board and the administration will learn some lessons from this failure and come back to the public with a fairer, more equitable, more informative referendum package that we can pass.

Posted by anothermom on March 23, 2006 at 10:59 AM

Another mom also misses my point. I want good schools for all children. I just think the demand for another school very close to BTW, Garden Hills and Stratton is ridiculous. No one will vote for it. I base that assumption on the fact that those schools, Garden Hills and BTW in particular are underenrolled. I understand racial fairness guidelines. I went to the web site and read the materials. But one thing that I'm thinking may be wrong. I assume that most African American children get their first choice of schools and that they are able to go to their neighborhood schools if they want to. If a large percentage of African American kids don't get their first choice school or can't get into their neighborhood school, then I agree with you. If not, we missed a great opportunity to help everyone. Maybe some of that vile stuff that I saw on tv is true. I will call the school about kids getting into neighborhood schoools and report back.

Posted by savymom on March 23, 2006 at 12:01 PM

"Something needs to be done to improve our aging schools."

Really!? I think something needs to be done to improve the discipline problem our schools face. How about a referendum that allows our teachers to teach? Is that too far out of our grasp? I would fully support a referendum for improving our schools if I felt my child would receive a good education within those schools. Why am I going to let my tax dollars go to improving public schools when I'm going to have to pay for a private education so my kid can GET an education!?

Posted by scaredparent on March 23, 2006 at 4:02 PM

Truth writes:

'If we really cared about black kids would we have consent decree ordering us to treat them equitably? Would we sit quietly as the Board fails to meet the terms of this consent decree? Would we ignore the disproportionate numbers of black students that are suspended, expelled, and dropout every year?'

Would boarding school work for your concerns? It is perplexing that you think it is the job of schools to ultimately be responsible for a child's behavior. My kid goes to school READY TO LEARN. Disrespectful behavior is NOT tolerated at home or anywhere else. There are consequences for it. I take personal responsibiility for my child so that teachers can spend their time TEACHING. And if this is such a horrifyingly racist city, why not move to, say, Urbana. It's the same community, just a different outcome when it came to the courts.

Posted by Lotte on March 24, 2006 at 12:22 PM

Amen, brother. Couldn't say it better myself. But remember that the real responsibility lies at the feet of the voting for having given him access. Until that shoulder of responsibility is taken ahold of no change will occur. Voters will continue over and over voting the wrong way...as votes for Ryan, Blagojevuich, Daley Jr and the late Daley Sr have now proven to be. Responsibility in voting is a rarely covered subject in our culture of "get everyone no matter how ignorant of the issues they are in the booth to punch a ballot." Someday we will have to realize we don't need ignorant lazy uninformed voters. They only create the mess Illinois's been in for multiple decades now!

Posted by randyandjoy1 on April 19, 2006 at 2:04 PM

Does it matter? No, but it gives the talking (and writing) heads something to talk or write about. The first sentence in your last paragraph said it all. Drum roll please. "The economy is humming along." During Clinton's impeachment and subsequent trial in the Senate all the media could talk about was HOW GREAT THE ECONOMY WAS DOING. Well, the economy is doing as well or better now and it rates one very short sentence in your last paragraph. The rest of the media doesn't mention it at all. I'm not a Republican and have never voted for one of their ilk but doesn't the lack of coverage of our "humming" economy in comparison to the coverage given to Clinton's "humming" economy clearly show a wee bit of bias toward one political bent. If it doesn't you are blind! Of course it does! Think people Think. Tip: Always read most carefully of all the last two paragraphs in any written story or listen to the last 10 seconds in an audio news report. That's where the real news is hidden purposely and will clearly show the bias (if any) of the reporter.

Posted by randyandjoy1 on April 19, 2006 at 2:12 PM

> sometimes barely passable and

> the site of all kinds of unsafe and

> sometimes illegal behavior.

Huh. Could be campustown on Friday/Saturday night (or unofficial). Or downtown Champaign on a summer night. Too many people standing on the sidewalk, not walking on the sidewalk. Maybe we should have a law for that too, as it is painfully obvious that one should WALK on a sidewalk, not stand around talking. Maybe the homeless just need to learn to sleep standing up.

Sounds like this particular editor is in favor of kicking 'em when they're down, while not even bothering to proffer a solution.

And hey, why shouldn't the homeless sleep there, it's not like American's use the sidewalks much. Everybody drives everywhere, especially in LA.

What a troll.

Posted by HomelessJoe on April 21, 2006 at 4:38 PM

Old wine, new skins. Just pathetic. When Republicans controlled the legislature the names were different but the actions were the same. Democrats offer nothing new here. Makes you wonder why you should even bother to vote since the result is the same.

Posted by DEB on April 28, 2006 at 2:09 PM

I am unsure as to the current status of the state budget, and I place the blame squarely on the News-Gazette. Over the past several months, I have read about how tuition hikes at UIUC are getting out of hand, we are unable to cover public aid expenses to ensure the health of those who are not capable, school construction grants from the state are constantly underpaid, and a myriad of other financial woes afflicting our great state. Then I read this editorial telling us to forget all of that, the state is now in the span of a few months going to be rolling in so much cash that we should suspend the gas tax.

At a time when the state budget is already stretched thin because of all the services the citizens of Illinois demand but are unwilling to properly fund, Rep. Blacks suggestion to suspend the gas tax is incredibly shortsighted. It may lower prices for a short time, but waiving a tax every time something supposedly gets too expensive is going to leave Illinois in a much worse financial situation. Home values are on the rise, but nobody is clamoring to suspend property taxes.

It disheartens me that our elected officials would choose to give the appearance of doing something about gas prices to ensure their re-election, rather than be true leaders of society and do what is right rather than what is popular. It disgusts me that the News-Gazette would go along with this notion after how many times we have been told the state is sinking into debt.

Suspending the gas tax (along with the diversion of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve) instead of investing into alternative fuel research is yet another case of selling off our future to pay for the present. All this will succeed in doing is bankrupting the state and avoid the reality of the situation: oil is a finite resource, production is on a bell curve, and we are quickly approaching the wrong side of the curve.

Posted by justinm on May 1, 2006 at 8:29 AM

Dear News-Gazette editors:

There appears to be a contradiction and a few other issues within this editorial.

You write, "state laws and local ordinances often are used to rightly prosecute the offenders," the key word being "rightly."

In other words, you think that it is right and just to prosecute those who desecrate the flag.

Then you say, however, "But to criminalize flag-burning as an act of free expression is wrong and contrary to those ideals expressed in the Bill of Rights." This contradicts your earlier statement.

There is also the issue of whether flag burning is widespread. You seem to be implying that if it were widespread, then an amendment to the Constitution may be in order.

Yet if this is a free-speech issue, the frequency of flag burning irrelevant. It is protected whether one person does it or a million do.

Your penultimate paragraph has a worrisome thrust to it as well, namely, that because other activities are not being prosecuted on the basis of offensiveness, then flag burning likewise should be immune from prosecution.

This does not defend free speech--rather it leaves open the possibility of criminalizing more activities that are deemed offensive. Do you think that protesting as stated or wearing a coarse t-shirt *should* be illegal?

It would be far better to point out that "offensiveness" is not at all an issue when it comes to freedom of expression. If speech is important and takes an affirmative stance on some issue, it almost certainly will offend someone.

As Salman Rushdie has rightly said, "Democracy is not a tea party...."

Sincerely,

Ben Wilson

Posted by bwilson on May 15, 2006 at 10:18 AM

Not everyone agreed that passage of the "Smoking Ban" was a wise thing to do. Some objected because they consider it to be a matter of personal choice. But the reality is that No Smoking in Public Places is mandatory and violators are subject to fine.

(So when will the NG write an editorial like that?)

Whether people resent government intrusion or have not gotten in the habit of buckling up, everyone has a responsibility to comply with this requirement of vehicle safety  both as a matter of personal safety and financial prudence.

Posted by mattvarbl on May 25, 2006 at 2:07 PM

the fear of the added 292.5 thousand or so might stifle creativity and interesting programming, though. ps- I'm thankful the 1st Ammendment "iremains" in place, as well.

Posted by jstrauss15 on June 9, 2006 at 3:21 PM

Nice dig there on Giraldo, I would expect nothing less from the Gazette. Let's all stick our heads in the sand and ignore modern technology. Why is it the NG waits until now to criticize this practice that was incidentally started by REPUBLICAN City Council Member Heather Stevenson of Urbana? But instead, true to form the News-Gazette hyperventilates about what Giraldo Rosales or Danielle Chynoweth is doing (even though Danielle has participated electronically far less than Stevenson). Your bias is very clear.

Posted by mattvarbl on June 16, 2006 at 1:13 PM

Ok let's think about this for a minute, so now you're upset she supossedly didn't get enough pork for this area, and yet you also run editorials screeching about the ridiculous pork barrel out of control spending at the state level? So which position do you actually agree wtih, lawmakers getting pork barrel spending for our area or no pork and "fiscal responsibility"? A little consistency once in awhile in your editorial columns would be nice. Your editorial's lack of consistency is so funy it almost makes the rest of us want to cry.

Posted by mattvarbl on June 23, 2006 at 3:03 PM

Naomi Jakobsson should answer Matt's question. We generate tax dollars locally and an equitable distribution of all state spending should be required by law.

Posted by ericbussell on June 23, 2006 at 4:44 PM

However, her insistence that Urbana's ban start at the same time as Champaign's ban provides unwitting confirmation of claims from bar and restaurant owners that the ban will hurt their businesses.

That is total nonsense and their are studies that prove otherwise. The main culprit here is the "perception" or fear of impact. Here's a recent study from El Paso Texas which shows there was no adverse economic impact:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5307a2.htm

Also when will John Foreman publicly admit he is a smoker? Haven't seen it yet.

Posted by mattvarbl on June 26, 2006 at 3:29 PM

"Mr. Foreman: Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Smoker's Party?"

Is that the concept we're getting at here, Varble?

What does it matter whether or not the publisher is a smoker? Why do you word your comments like being a smoker is akin to being a terrorist?

This war of yours is not, and has never been, about public health or the public good. This is about your crusade against what you find to be an annoying habit, under the pretense of doing something good for the community.

When will Varble publicly admit that he is using the government to impose his will against a large contingent of the community, and to heck with the opinions and lifestyles of smokers. Haven't seen it yet.

Posted by JamesMortland on June 27, 2006 at 12:05 PM

I am so happy to see such a racist and insensitive tradition expiring. I'm glad the NCAA had the guts to do what the Board of Trustees refused to do. I hate that this article is filled with rebel rhetoric, but as a U of I alum I have grown quite numb to it. I still don't get how people don't understand how egregiously offensive the Chief is to other people. I'm glad to see this chapter of our University close.

Posted by Truth on July 4, 2006 at 9:48 AM

I grew up in Champaign County, with Illinois football, the Chief, with the mystery and awe of the American Indian. Keeping the Illiniwek tradition is, in my opinion, a positive and national supportive event for exposure and preservation of tribal pride and history. Call me sentimental at age 64; autumn must include the Chief. JH in Houston

Posted by johnheimburger on July 5, 2006 at 4:57 PM

WHy do native americans get special treatment? Isn't the "nickname" for Notre Dame the "fighting Irish?" Why are the Irish americans not protected from this "racism?" ANd what about the Nebraska "corn huskers?" Arent the depicted as a "country bumpkinish white guy wearing nothing but a pair of overalls?" What about the european americans (white people)? If we are going to stop these "mascots" depicting Native Americans, then why not the Irish and the caucasins? And as far as saying pro-chief supporters as being racist, that is completely absurd. The Illini nation is gone, all the natural Illini are dead and gone, extinct if you would prefer to say. I could go on in more detail, but I think you might get the idea by now.

Posted by Daxndata on July 5, 2006 at 10:18 PM

I hope that the Chief will be retired soon. Volunteering at Native American reservations in both South Dakota and Michigan made me realize that the Chief needs to go. The residents of both locations were aware of UIUC's Chief and found it abhorrent--they found the costume inauthentic for the Illini, sacred for another tribe, and a caricature of their ritual dances. It was embarrassing to admit that I went to UIUC because the residents would turn cold and immediately lecture me about why the Chief offended them. I should be proud of my school, not ashamed. The comparisons to Notre Dame are infuriating--the US did not decimate and destroy Irish American civilizations. Irish Americans founded the school and, if they do have a problem with the mascot, have the ability to speak out against the symbol. The Illini do not have such a chance because their culture was destroyed by white settlers.

Posted by reasonwins on July 6, 2006 at 1:07 PM

I would suggest that reasonwins transfer elsewhere - there is nothing racist about the Chief, only a symbol of honor and a very positive tradition.

Posted by MBilyew on July 6, 2006 at 2:47 PM

Just as a correction to reasonwins, the Illini tribe was not destroyed by "white settlers". Illinois history teaches us that the Illini were "destroyed" by a rival native american tribe. Check the history of Starved Rock. However, I suppose you are one of those that will say the history books are wrong too.

Posted by readone on July 6, 2006 at 3:24 PM

Actually, readone, if you had read about the Illini, you would know that although the Iroquois did hurt the group, a truce was called between the two tribes in the mid-1700s. Also, part of the reason the Iroquois waged war with the Illini was that they needed new territory because white settlers were pushing them out of the east coast. The Illini population was decimated through a combination of other Indian tribes, smallpox (brought by the Europeans) and treaties with the US government (forcing them out of Illinois). A small number of descendents of the Illini still exist, but no one hears their voices. http://www.nps.gov/jeff/LewisClark2/Circa1804/Heritage/NativeAmericans/NativeAmericanInfluence.htm [From the National Park Service].

The costume is that of the Sioux (a rival of the Illini Indians) and the dance is not authentic. Further, the Peoria Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma (the descendents of the Illini) have asked for the removal of the Chief and says that it does not honor them. How can you say you "honor" people when you do not respect their wishes? The University is a great university, and it does not need an archaic, insensitive symbol to prove that. I have graduated from this university, but I believe that if you love something (your country, your school), you fight to make it the best it can be, even if that means changing the status quo, MBilyew.

Posted by reasonwins on July 6, 2006 at 4:53 PM

By definition, John Foreman and all you chief lovers, your symbol and tradition is institutional racism. Institutional racism is embedded within public bodies such as universities. It does not require "intent." Rather, it can be perpetuated by seemingly benign policies, practices, behaviors, traditions, and structures, which is why it usually goes unchallenged. It also goes unchallenged because it invests white people with unearned privileges and advantages, including the "right" to speak for and otherwise represent Indian people.

Institutional racism results in oppression. According to ERASE Racism, "[o]ppression results when (1) racism is a part of the dominant culture's national consciousness; (2) it is reinforced through its social institutions; and (3) there is an imbalance of social and economic power within the culture" (www.eraseracismny.org).

Foreman and the rest of you chief lovers: your "chief" IS oppressive. It functions in a way that enables non-Indians to speak for and otherwise represent the citizens of Indian nations. And it does so with the power and influence of the state of Illinois' flagship university. Its authority is grounded in white privilege and in fantasies about Indians manufactured in the Boy Scouts and the Y-Indian Guides and in motion pictures such as PETER PAN, NOT in the cultures of Indian nations.

What do REAL Indians say:

Citizens of the Peoria Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma today are among the descendants of those Indian peoples forced out of their homelands in what later became the state of Illinois. In 2000, the government of the Peoria Tribe issued a resolution that states the following: "[T]he image portrayed by Chief Illiniwek does not accurately represent or honor the heritage of the Peoria Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma and is a degrading racial stereotype that reflects negatively on all American Indian people."

In a 2001 survey by Indian Country Today (www.indiancountry.com), 81 percent of Indians stated they find the use of American Indian names, symbols, and mascots in athletics deeply disparaging. In an informal poll among tribally-connected Native professionals in 2003, 88 percent indicated that they object to Chief Illiniwek. The Native American House at the University (www.nah.uiuc.edu) is unambiguous in its position on the matter, last year characterizing Chief Illiniwek as "a racist symbol that undermines the Universitys goals as an educational institution and mis-educates the campus and community."

In addition to ignoring real Indian perspectives, Foreman misinforms readers about findings in polls of the non-Indian public. For example, NewsTalk WDWS AM 1400 in Urbana-Champaign asked listeners in 2003 if the University should retire Chief Illiniwek. According to the station, 63 percent of respondents believed the symbol should be changed while 37 percent said no.

Posted by Wetasewa on July 7, 2006 at 10:01 AM

The fact that the NCAA has taken this stance is the real issue here. The fact that the NCAA has played favorites with this policy is the real issue. The NCAA has waived the rule for certain protected organizations (FSU), and stood fast against those institutions that it has always pounded, (UIUC). If the NCAA applied this policy universally I would not have a problem.

Now the chief is not racist. Anyone that thinks this is close-minded. He represents the honor of the State of Illinois. What is next do we have to change the name of our state because it represents those that came before us?

Posted by karlyn1219 on July 7, 2006 at 10:08 AM

I'm so pissed.

Posted by chiefilliniwek on July 7, 2006 at 12:04 PM

Some of you all are in serious denial. Your "chief" is BOTH racist AND it represents the so-called "honor" of the state of Illinois. Further, it IS an example of institutional racism. And your love for it is a possessive investment in whiteness -- in white privilege. Unfortunately, it does not exist in a vacuum. It circulates among MANY other similar markings, symbols, words, bodies, representations, depictions, and characterizations in popular culture that are immediately recognized as Indian. When the Indian sign moves through commodities and imaginations and musings -- through visual imagery, stereotypes, assumptions, and expectations -- from its points of production to consumers, it does so across borders and checkpoints and within the global marketplace. It creates a MISunderstanding of actual Indian peoples, the citizens of Indian nations.

After 1818, when Illinois became a state and sent representatives to the U.S. Congress, members of Congress authorized the forced removal of Indian nations from the state. This is the sort of memory your "chief" honors, even when your love for it functions to make you forget.

Your "chief" is a tragic hero, a defeated "warrior" and spiritual guide who offers you a cathartic reproof of your ancestors' past injustices from which you have so clearly benefited and in which you are so emotionally invested. Your chief is an example of imperialist nostalgia, a widespread tactic used by colonial powers like Australia, Canada, the United States, and New Zealand to cover up your domination and transform those responsible for both the history of genocide against and ongoing oppression of American Indian peoples to act as innocent bystanders.

Posted by Wetasewa on July 7, 2006 at 12:36 PM

Chief Illiniwek is as racist as the Indian Head penny (minted 1859-1909) or the new Buffalo Head gold coin (with an Indian bust on its face). In typical fashion the PC police and the others who want to save me from myself will protest with louder voices than the majority and will actually destroy what these individuals wanted to achieve. Instead of using Chief Illiniwek, albeit not perfect, as a positive to enhance the dialogue about Native-Americans and the true plight of many on reservations, as promulgated by the NCAA czar Myles Brand himself, they will end it. Is anyone really naïve enough to believe that when the Chief is retired (hopefully never), that anyone (the vast majority of Illini alumni, contributors, students, etc.) will really care that the U of I has a Native-American House? In fact, the opposite will occur and the U of I will receive less support (certainly from me). As for Native-Americans being against the Chief, obviously a sizeable number are, but it is far from being a majority. I, too, have spoken with many of Native-American heritage and on the reservations, who are either neutral or supportive of the Chief. The website of the Peoria Tribe of Oklahoma features its Buffalo Run Casino and Peoria Ridge golf course (not quite the topics our pure of spirit wish to tout). Further, their infamous resolution against the Chief was three in favor and two opposed, after intense lobbying by the anti-Chief contingent. If we are truly Fighting Illini then we must continue the fight for what we believe. For me, that is Chief Illiniwek.

Posted by illinijd76 on July 7, 2006 at 3:58 PM

I am of the opinion that everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is what makes the world go round. But lately it seems like everything has to be so politically correct and have mercy on you if you happen to "step on someone's toes" or "hurt someone's feelings". The world is not a fair place...and this also is what makes it go round. The Chief has been a part of the U of I for so long and for people to stick their noses in & say they are "upset" or "offended" actually offends me. Why is it only in the last few years when everything has become "PC" is this now being brought to the forefront. I agree with Daxndata that if the NCAA is going to take a stand on this issue then they need to start looking at other schools that have supposed "offensive" mascots. I've been to Illini games & feel nothing but great pride when the Chief is on the field. And I have also been there when people have started booing during the performance. I remember something called sportsmanship...you may not like the other team, but you still had respect for them. You did not yell degrading things at them or make a spectacle of yourself. Its a little thing called RESPECT.

Granted I did not attend the U of I, but I did attend Western Illinois University, home of the "Fighting Leathernecks." Maybe those who are offended by the Chief should also think about being offended by anything with "fighting" in front of it. That could be offensive to those who are peace loving. WIU also has a veterans alum group called the "Peach Blossoms". Before every home football game they put on their cutoff fatigues, paint their faces in purple & gold, put a red mop on their head, grab their noisemakers and get the student body & any attending the game ready to cheer on the team. The last year I was there a big to do was made over the Peach Blossoms being offensive to women as they put balloons under their shirts. But keep in mind that the women Peach Blossoms did this too! As a woman I was never offended by them. I was and still am proud of them, not only for being a veteran but for rallying school spirit. Maybe those who are anti-Chief should start looking at him not as a deragatory or offensive symbol but a symbol of pride! Also, I feel that all the PC of the world is eventually going to lead to where no one can express their opinions freely without someone jumping their case. This is the USA the last time I checked and we have the freedom of speech. If someone wants to complain about the Chief, have at it, but also allow for those who support him to not be degraded when they show their support.One last note before I wrap this up as I dont want to ramble...I am 1/2 American Indian. In no way am I offended by the Chief or his actions. If the suit he wears is not one native of the Illini than maybe they should find one for him that is native to the Illini. And if we do retire the Chief because he is no longer PC, than what's next? Is the state of Illinois to change its name because it could be offensive to someone somewhere. Again, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and though you may not like mine & I may not like yours I will still listen to it with the utmost respect. You will hear no boos coming from me when you tell me the reasons why you think the Chief should be gone. But some traditions should be left alone, otherwise we will wind up in a world with no traditions because someone might get offended.

Posted by Alphasig on July 7, 2006 at 4:24 PM

I say Let the Chief go. Iam sure there are other mascots we could find that would be ready, willing and able to take the Chiefs place. I don't understand why native americans think the Chief is bad. I do think that it is time for us to let go of this symbol and choose another one. I have one in mind but won't express it at this time.

I wish the University of Illinois the best of luck finding a new mascot.

Posted by Charles7 on July 8, 2006 at 3:07 PM

Missouri, Illinois, Cherokee, Comanche, Erie, Delaware,Huron, Kickapoo, Massachusett, Miami, Niantic, Ottawa, and Winnebago. Native Americans? OR are they something else? Cars? States? Lakes? Cities? Campgrounds even? How can you tell? and another question I ask is Why were the names selected in the first place? Many assumptions are being stated as fact in this Chief issue. UNless I have been misinformed, there are only 3 races oh humans: mongoloid, negroid, and caucasion ( this is how they were described to me, so if there are more descript names then use those). So I dont think the native AMericans could be considered negroid or mongoloid, therefore they must be caucasin. So I would think the term "racist" as used in this issue to be completely absurd. the Illini and other native americans are merely different nationalities, similiar to the French, or the Swiss.

If we are to retire the Chief, then where do we stop? Sure I realize that many of the anti-Chief folks would say that there is no effort for anything like that. I would like to believe that they are forthcoming with their "agenda", but I am just not that certain. Perhaps in 20 years from now me wont remember the names of the great lakes by remembering " HOMES", since we cant use Huron or Erie. We wont be driving our Jeep Comanchee to any state park named "kickapoo." The arch across the river wont be in St. Louis or even the state of missouri. And if you want to go RVing to Florida to see a Rocket launch, you better not plan on driving a winnebago or even seeing the Heat play some basketball in Miami.

One last item. The idea of institutional racism. sounds like the Natives Americans OTHER that the Illini are opposing the Chief. And the idea of white priveledge is non-existant on ANY reservation. Special priveledge? I think not.

p.s. I am not some blond bubba kinda guy that you might think...I KNOW you saw the mascot for the nebraska cornhuskers...

Posted by Daxndata on July 8, 2006 at 10:25 PM

Reading through these posts points out the depth and breadth of misinformation about American Indians, from our tribal histories to our present day issues. Some will be resistent to learning about us, indeed they may dismiss what we offer as revisionist history or politically corrrect nonsense. For those who do want to learn more than what was offered in textbooks of old, consider taking a course from one of our professors in American Indian Studies at UIUC. Or, attend a lecture or event we sponsor. Here's our website:

http://www.nah.uiuc.edu.

And, if you're interested in gaining a different perspective on the ways that American Indians are presented in children's books, consider reading my blog. Several times a week, I post comments about American Indians in children's books, but I also designed the blog to be a resource for teachers, librarians, parents, and others interested in the topic. I link to on-line articles, book reviews, sites and blogs maintained by Native writers, and an extensive list of books I recommend. The address for the blog is:

http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com

Sincerely,

Debbie Reese

Assistant Professor

American Indian Studies

UIUC

Posted by DebbieReese on July 10, 2006 at 7:28 AM

I still hope that the U. of I. gets a little backbone and takes the NCAA to court over this. They have no legal right to impose their political correctness inspired ideology upon an entire state. This is an opportunity to fight political correctness and expose the hypocritical mindset of those who try to shove this nonsense down everyone else's throat under the guise of "sensitivity." I'd even contribute to fund the attorney's fees. The real issue is how relevant is the NCAA in this day and age - it certainly is doing a lousy job ensuring graduation rates for athletes.

It is also too bad that the REAL basis for this whole controversy has never been revealed. The Board of Trustees website used to carry the testimony from Judge Garippo's hearings on the Chief controversy. The comments were most illuminating because they revealed the real motivation behind the anti-Chief crowd. Those people fell into two catagories:

1. An even dozen Native American activists and protestors whose testimony revealed that what they were really after was money - lots of money - for a separate Native American residence, for dedicated (and academically bogus) ethnic studies programs, and other goodies - of course, with no supervision. Some of these "hurt" souls weren't even Illinois residents let alone students at the university.

2. A collection of aging faculty members who saw this as an opportunity to flex their muscles, relive the heady days of the 1969 and 1970 protests down at Urbana-Champaign when they had everyone kowtowing to them, and forcing their political correctness down the throats of another generation of students and alumni.

It is more than fascinating that even an overwhelming majority of Native americans polled find nothing offensive in the Chief. Clearly, if he was a red Stepin Fetchit, these are the people who'd say so.

But there is a solution - and you keep the Chief. Rather than have him arrayed as a member of a plains tribe - which is what he is - make him outfitted in the costume of an eastern woodlands tribe - yes, the Illini confederation. There is enough data out there that an accurate "Illini" costume could be created - he'd look magnificent with the scalp lock - and rather than a war dance, have him conduct a victory prayer to the Great Spirit while the Three-in-One is played. Dignified - honors their beliefs - and isn't a mascot. And then shove this down the throats of the NCAA and all the other whining PC advocates.

A final comment. Since when do losing cultures dictate to the winners? The Native American culture was a stone age culture when the Europeans arrived - it was doomed because it refused to adapt. The activists who have so much time whining about their insulted dignity should spend some more time with their own people and work on reducing the alcoholism rates, the school drop-out rates and the unemployment rates before they try to lay guilt trips on the rest of us.

Posted by Wolfgang on July 14, 2006 at 12:18 PM

As an alumnus of the U of I (graduated 1999), I am currently embarrassed and ashamed of myself and for the university. During my time in Champaign-Urbana, the sense I received was that the vast majority of the student and local populations were in support of the Chief. At the same time, there was always a vocal and passionate minority who opposed the Chief and all that he stood for. The general sentiment of support for the Chief, though, was continuously validated through various formal and informal polls conducted by local news outlets and even by agents of the university.

My support of the Chief stems not from the visual representation of the mascot or from the made up dance at the halftime of a football game, but from the ideals that the Chief is mean to embody: Loyalty, Tradition and Pride. The cowardice and timidity that Chief supporters have shown (myself included) when voicing their opposition of the minority view is, in my opinion, the most unfortunate outcome of the issue. We should have done more to validate the importance and standing of the Chief before the issue came to where it is today.

Posted by tjnorth on July 20, 2006 at 11:46 AM

The illogic of Judge Robert S. Smith rationale becomes apparent when reflecting on Judge Leon Bazile's excuse in Loving v. Virginia in 1968 arguing for anti-miscegenation:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

Further, Justice Smith need merely visit Wikipedia to educate himself on the fallaciousness of his arguement regarding the recentness of the same-sex marriage idea -- Native Americans celebrated 'Two-Spirit' men as powerful shamens and were afforded full marital status, and in the 19th century America brought along the concept of a 'Boston Marriage'.

No, not everyone who currently holds this belief is irrational, ignorant or bigoted... well at least not any more so than Judge Leon Bazile was thirty odd years ago.

Posted by dw on July 24, 2006 at 3:59 PM

Do you suppose that the problem might not be overspending but under taxing?

Just a thought.

Regards,

John E Terwilliger

Posted by johntwig on August 2, 2006 at 3:38 PM

Well, not really.

The only ones who pay the $500 fee for repair and maintenence are those who are freshmen at UIUC this year.

Freshmen, do not get the $500 grant. It goes to the sophomores, juniors, and seniors who do not have to pay the maintenence fee.

The ones hurt by the fee are the ones excluded from relief.

Posted by DEB on August 8, 2006 at 1:32 PM

Your editorial on Delta's service was accurate but incomplete, as was the article that was written several months ago to first announce Deltas arrival. Yes, the issue is economics, but it has nothing to do with the price of a ticket. It cost no more to fly an airplane from ATL to CMI than it cost to fly from ATL to BMI. The difference is not in the flying, but in the landing. Isn't it time someone begin to compare landing fees, terminal fees, and parking fees between the two airports? Maybe the Champaign-Urbana-U of I community will find the real reason CMI can't keep airlines. Incidentally, when American Eagle discontinued service between STL and CMI recently, it was the first time in over 50 years there was no air service between the two airports.

Posted by dleecol on August 16, 2006 at 5:10 PM

You forgot to mention that on June 27, 2006 the U.S. Surgeon General (A Bush appointee) also recently released a report verifying the negative health effects of second hand smoke. The health effects of secondhand smoke exposure are more pervasive than we previously thought, said Surgeon General Carmona, vice admiral of the U.S. Public Health Service. He said

The scientific evidence is now indisputable: secondhand smoke is not a mere annoyance. It is a serious health hazard that can lead to disease and premature death in children and nonsmoking adults.

When will John Foreman take back his "junk science" claims about the health effects of second hand smoke?

Posted by mattvarbl on August 21, 2006 at 2:14 PM

American Connection discontinued service to Champaign from STL. American Eagle still has service to Chicago and Dallas. Eagle however would most likely not be here if it weren't for the Flight Star FBO which is a maintainance base for Eagle. There aircraft are stored there and undergo cleaning and maintainence every night. Chicago is a short flight away (13-20minutes) so it's not a big fuel burn for Eagle. Not to mention a great %age of University students are from Chicago. It cost an airline 3x as much to fly to Champaign than into Bloomington not to mention the free parking and better selections of food a and actual restaraunts inside the airport. The University has refused to budge on the costly fees for airlines, costly parking at $5/day for passengers and the terminal is just now under improvement. CU may have a lot of the blame for not supporting Delta and assisting with marketing but Delta shares it for not providing the requested services and times when passengers asked for it in CMI. It cost a lot to get an airline "rolling" in a new city (for a 2nd time especially).I would prefer to drive to Bloomington with half the city to avoid the fees, parking cost, and higher cost to fly out of Willard. e.g. You can save upwards of $300 b flying out of BMI.

Posted by pilot23 on September 2, 2006 at 8:39 AM

Since none of the boys is going to play professional football, lessons about honesty and integrity will serve them well in whatever they do choose to do.

Posted by joesuburbs on September 5, 2006 at 10:47 AM

Please note that according to this News Week article Valerie Plume had done undercover operations within the past five years and the CIA was concealing her idenity. The article also states that apparently Libby was not charged with "outing" Plume since there was no proof Libby was aware of her status as a covert operative.

Posted by wmb on September 7, 2006 at 4:22 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

Posted by wmb on September 7, 2006 at 4:22 PM

cool comments

Posted by richlk on September 12, 2006 at 3:31 PM

I would hope the team is not worried about an off week when they have only played 2 games. Maybe, if the team was 6 or 7 games into the season, I could understand the talk...but after 2 games?????

Posted by jjrepp on September 14, 2006 at 6:01 PM

Hello Mr. Tate,

You have mentioned several times that Illinois football historically has not been a sucessful program. Therefore Illini fans should accept mediocrity(sp?) as the norm.

Do you not think Illinois can do what Wisconsin did when Barry Alverz arrived? What about Mike Kruzeski(sp?) at Duke. Both were historically unsucessful programs that were turned into winners.

thank you...

Ashu

Posted by aratnakar on September 15, 2006 at 1:17 PM

You have to wonder about your coaching staff when you see a funeral procession like the one we glimpsed at Rutgers a week ago. Perhaps the current staff can recruit better than Turner and company, but the Illinois team at Rutgers was an ill-prepared,disheveled and hapless bunch at best. Don't kid yourself -- talent was the only thing missing on the Illinois sideline in New Jersey.

Posted by vreato on September 15, 2006 at 2:50 PM

Yes, Mr. Tate. I would just like to go on record by saying that Ron Guenther is the best AD we have ever had.

Posted by mbeesley on September 15, 2006 at 11:15 PM

I am glad to see that someone covered the stupid elbow by Ron Zook. The moment wasn't reported by any other news agency I saw, including WAND or WCIA, not the Decatur Herald-Tribune. I am glad that someone found it to be news worthy. Zook shouldn't let his frustration allow him to hit the players. He is lucky it didn't make an ESPN highlight and bring more negative attention to the program. If I were Russ Weil's dad, I would find Zook and elbow him in the chest, as well as demand a public apology. Zook mentioned that Russ knows "he can't do that"???? What the hell? Does Zook know "HE can't do that"?

Posted by ranthony on September 17, 2006 at 1:15 PM

I don't understand how the seniors continue to make mistake after mistake, Brasic, Hasley, Weil(maybe a junior). Simply inexecusable. They owe an apology to the fan base, (not much left after their inept play). Hasley acts like he is afraid to return a punt, Brasic either fumbles or overshoots receivers and Weil well after the play is over incurs a personal foul. The Pop Warner boys play a better brand of football than this team. If this were professional sports, I would demand a refund of the ticket price

Posted by scarlson on September 17, 2006 at 1:58 PM

hey buddy, get off of Zook's case. he is simply frustrated, and if not physically, Weil deserved to get his butt chewed big time. He should know better.

Posted by scarlson on September 17, 2006 at 2:02 PM

This is football. It was not covered because it is not news worthy, unless someone is trying to stir up trouble.

Posted by jjrepp on September 17, 2006 at 2:03 PM

I think the rhythm of the game is being dictated by Locksley. The quarterback, whether it be Brasic or Williams starts his count at the line, looks over at Locksley looks back at the line starts his count again looks over to the sidelines again before the ball is finally snapped. All of this takes from 8 to 13 seconds; that is way too much time. When a play is run, the next play should be run in from the sidelines or it should be in the quarterback's mind, if he is given that freedom. Also, he should be able to checkoff on a play on his own, these are college kids, they should be able to read a defensive line formation for themselves.

Posted by MLACER on September 17, 2006 at 3:54 PM

While I left Rutgers stadium in almost total dismay, that was not my feeling when I left Memorial Stadium, and I do not think I am being a Polyanna. First, let's recognize that for the second consecutive game, the defensive line showed dramatic improvement over the past few years. If it had not been for two significant pass defense lapses, one I think by a linebacker, the other apparently by a freshman corner back, Syracuse would not have scored a meaningful touchdown against the defense -- the recovered fumble being a fluke.

But relatedly, the offense provided no first quarter support for the defense. We know football is emotional, and it is hard to believe that the offensive failures in the first half did not affect the defense.

And the offense is a puzzlement. Gutsy and tough runner though he may be, Chris Pazan's passing shortcomings were the reason for the failure of the first two possessions, and the left side of the offensive line must have set a record for penalties.

Coaching deserves both credit and blame, and a continuation of penalties will show they are coming up short, but 14 games into the Zook era, I can see some hint of light at the end of a tunnel that will be longer than any optimist wants it to be. John Johnson, Chicago

Posted by jjohnson on September 17, 2006 at 3:59 PM

We should be thankful that a football guy like Ron Guenther leads the athletic department. Otherwise, our football program could be a real mess.

Posted by mbeesley on September 17, 2006 at 4:14 PM

Our players' heads were down? Well, isn't that great.

Posted by mbeesley on September 17, 2006 at 4:17 PM

I think Zook meant to hit Locksley for his play calling. Instead of running the ball, Locks gets pass happy with a QB in Brasic that struggles to throw the ball 8 yards down field.

Posted by mbeesley on September 17, 2006 at 4:19 PM

what a humilating ordeal; to be forced to watch perhaps the worst football program in the country. Talk about making Saturday's a big disapointment. I've been going to Illinois games since the days of Gary Moeller and it never seems to get any better. This year's disaster of a team should give back their scholoarships in mass. It is time for me to rethink buying season tickets ever again and so should the rest of the Illini fan base. No heart! But then again, what would you expect from a university that caved into special interest groups and will get rid of the only thing worth watching on that field; the chief.

Posted by dguire on September 17, 2006 at 4:21 PM

Good grief, no wonder illini football is the mess it is; fans don't even know who was playing. Chris Pazan wasn't the quarterback, that was Tim Brasic (although he played as bad as Chris so that might be where the confusion lies).

Posted by dguire on September 17, 2006 at 4:27 PM

Don't worry about negative attention coming toward this progam, nobody is watching or cares anyway.

Posted by dguire on September 17, 2006 at 4:29 PM

Illinois is looking towards the future...go with Williams and let him get the experience. It will be good for recrutung as potential recruits will see this is some one that is going to around for awhile and can be the "center piece" for a great team!

Posted by dallen on September 17, 2006 at 4:33 PM

I am a grad and a 50 year ticket holder, so I have seen some good and a lot of bad, but I will say Ron Zook deserves time to put his program in place. It takes 2-3 classes to do this, but it will happen. Iwatched as much as I could of saturdays game and the one thing I saw was a more confident attitude by the team when Williams was on the field. So I think we go with the young guys {and they will be good} and learn on the job.

mike3308

Posted by mschultz on September 17, 2006 at 6:28 PM

I agree with MLACER - the uncertainty at the line by the QB, backs and receivers, is not only annoying it's rediculous. I haven't seen another college team in America require their skill position players to start calling the play at the line, then stop and all look over to the sidelines for what, an audible call or ??? What happened to the no-huddle fast-paced offense we were promised when Zook was hired?

Posted by hpaulh on September 18, 2006 at 11:06 AM

Yes, for sure. I'm flying 2,000 miles to C-U for the game against Iowa Saturday. I would like a win, but what I wish for the most is at least some courage, guts, and effort, from the coaches and the players. Start the Juice against Iowa, Coach Zook, and let's start building some excitement and hope for the future.

Posted by hpaulh on September 18, 2006 at 11:19 AM

It appears the season for Illini football is over. If we are going to show up each week, I believe that the focus should be developing existing talent for future years. It is clear our upperclassmen are not providing leadership; reasons for that are unclear from such a far vantage point. If it is coaching, lets admit it and start looking interms of what coaching talent is needed and set out to secure it. If it is player talent, level with the fans and solicit their support and backing to encourage future talent to sign-up even though we as a team are awful.

Posted by pevans on September 18, 2006 at 12:08 PM

hey Loren, is Ron Guenther still a great AD?

Posted by mbeesley on September 18, 2006 at 12:14 PM

don't throw Williams to the dogs at this early stage. If you're going to lose, you might as well lose with Brasic and keep Williams' confidence from being destroyed. You're not going to beat Iowa anyway.

Posted by vreato on September 18, 2006 at 2:32 PM

Here is a comment bodering on the absurd. As ridiculous as it sounds, this match-up has all the ingredients for an upset. Iowa plays 'The Ohio State University' the following week. The potential for a let down is very real. No way does Iowa take this game seriously. Is Illinois really as bad as they look? Sooner or later something is going to give. The things that I see going wrong with the team are very correctable. I'm at a loss for the offensive scheme though. Concentration and discipline will be the key to execution. Go ahead and start Brasic. Does it really matter? Let I.W. play every 3rd and 4th series. See if this doesn't confuse the Iowa defense. Zook is right on the money for not naming a starter. This necessatates the Iowa coaches spending more time in preparation. Should the Illini expect to win this one? They should expect to win them all, otherwise, mail it in and send everyone home.

Posted by Frcook on September 18, 2006 at 3:10 PM

Zook doesn't want to see things "go to heck in a

handbasket". Excuse me coach...some of us already

think we're there !

Posted by walker on September 18, 2006 at 3:55 PM

I think our team needs a real psychological lift. I believe that "Juice" can provide that spark. Perhaps a reversal of the roles to allow Tim Brasic to go in at certain times would be a good way to keep too much pressure off Juice. This appears to be another rebuilding year, but we need something to raise us to a higher level. We certainly need some immediate successes.

Posted by Lanse on September 18, 2006 at 4:00 PM

Loren, is Ron Guenther still Illinois' most indispensible man of the 20th century? How on earth is the DIA going to pay for the bonds to renovate Memorial Stadium with the dropoff in attendance?

Posted by mbeesley on September 20, 2006 at 12:34 PM

It's very unfortunate to say the least, to see the

Eric Gordon situation slowly slipping away. I was

certain that he was solid with us, but now it seems clear that he will go to Indiana. Even worse, the liklihood that he and Rose might in fact, play together.

Posted by walker on September 20, 2006 at 1:08 PM

When the offensive line is responsible for a good percentage of 12 penalties in one game, your people are simply not ready to play. That is a coaching issue and not a matter of inferior talent. Although I wish Ron Zook the best in C-U, I can't help thinking that there was a reason why "fireroonzook.com" was a reality in Florida.

Posted by vreato on September 20, 2006 at 2:27 PM

The immediate successor to Steve Spurrier stood no chance to gain a foothold with the Gator nation. Zook was the 3rd choice in a coaching search that was botched by Jeremy Foley from the outset. Zook recruited well and had just started to see the fruition of his recruiting classes when he was let go. Trust me, living in Florida, I have become accustomed to Gator fan whining about their football program nonstop. If Erben Meyer had not won at Tennessee this past weekend, you would have already heard the drone of

"fire meyer". Give Zook time to develop his players, i.e. Juice Williams, and then decide whether he is a good fit at Illinois. In the mean-time, see if Ron Guenther can persuade Ron Turner to return his last year's salary, for as Mike Gottfried proclaimed during the Rutgers broadcast, "He forgot to recruit".

Posted by kellytm on September 20, 2006 at 3:01 PM

If Illinois looses Gordon means the Illini program can't compete in the open market place! Now the question is...WHY?

Posted by dallen on September 20, 2006 at 6:34 PM

Great comments about Mike White, from Loren who hit the nail on the head.

He is and remains a true Illini hero in my heart and the hearts of fans. He alone captured the imagination of the ILLINI NATION like no one since. I still remember my picture with him after the Minnesota game in 1984 in the locker room. He seemed geniunely happy fans like myself and my wife would stick around just for a photo with him. Our hero forever !!!

Posted by scarlson on September 20, 2006 at 6:45 PM

I'm one of the few people in the country that are fans of the Illini and Stanford. Don't ask me why. It's along story. Your comment about Stanford and maybe it wasn't Buddy Teeven's fault is simply wrong. While being an extremely good person he was not a good selection to replace Coach Willingham when he left for Notre Dame. Primarily his relationship with the Stanford athletic director at the time was the reason he was hired. The talent level at Stanford is far inferior to what you need to compete in the Pac 10. While Stanford is a difficult university to recruit players to because of high academic requirements it can and has been done with the right leadership. The truth is that Walt Harris is working with the players that were recruited by Teevens. They had 3 consecutive bad recruiting years. That adds up to the results that you are seeing now. The new stadium is phenomenal but Stanford needs to put a better product on the field to change the attitude of the fans and make it a great place to watch college football once again. I think my dream Rose Bowl match up of the Illini and the Cardinal is still a few years away!!

Posted by thornyton on September 20, 2006 at 8:00 PM

Walla Walla College!! Incredible. No comment from Guenther. Shocking!

Posted by mbeesley on September 21, 2006 at 12:14 PM

Ah, the destructive nature of self-rigthteous people.

Posted by dgcrow on September 21, 2006 at 12:14 PM

It's a shame that these supposedly learned men can't just do what the university is paying them to do instead of trying to sabotage the community and the fans. This revered symbol was celebrated long before they joined the university.If they are qualified to teach the students, then they shouldn't have a problem understanding the dignified presentation and what the symbol stands for. Can you even believe they would stick their nose in the olympic effort and attempt to hurt the state financially? Wow, get a life folks. The great majority still enjoy the celebration that is the Chief!!

Posted by mustwhiz on September 21, 2006 at 12:34 PM

The professors should stick to what they were hired to do and that is teach and publish books. They shouldn't be interfering with the Athletic department and the Chief. I'm sure they wouldn't want other people interfering with how they teach or the subject matter of their educational treatises. They shouldn't be dictating to the Athletic department. Obviously, they have never been to a football or basketball game and seen the honor and reverence the Chief receives from the fans. It is truly a unique experience and not derogatory in any way. Go back to your ivory tower where you belong.

Posted by lconroyl on September 21, 2006 at 1:10 PM

The chief is a symbol of solumn respect for everyman. The anti-chief movement is the antithesis of respect and tolerance. Without uttering a word, the chief's message has been indelibly imprinted on personal values of generations of alumni. Tolerance and respect for the chief's tradition has united generations of alumni. Perhaps that is why the symbol of the chief has such power and attacks against the tradition generate such profound feeling of personal loss and contempt for a movement based on intolerance.

Posted by dbullard on September 21, 2006 at 1:34 PM

Gasbags on all sides of the issue.

Posted by rmitchell on September 21, 2006 at 1:40 PM

It is certainly interesting to follow this group, as a subgroup of a larger effort to erradicate any semblance of knowledge about the heritage of the american indian. The dream that all american indians lived in some romanticized dream world in which they simply fished and harvested is as wrong as the issues that they have with Chief Illiniwek. The path that this group is following will lead to our grandchildrn remembering the american indians as nothing more than casino owners. Is the way the american indian wishes to be remembered? It would seem to me that they have bigger issues to face than this "hot button" issue.

Posted by waddeji on September 21, 2006 at 1:46 PM

It is way past time for the Chief to go. If the board would have put him into retirement when Stanford and the others removed their Indian names, this would be a forgotten issue by now.

Posted by furlan on September 21, 2006 at 3:54 PM

Kaufman and his band of self-appointed morality police represent the lowest form of life. Fortunately, the prospective student-athletes whom they hope to influence surely understand this and won't be swayed by this moronic behavior. Pathetic. Simply pathetic.

Posted by dthonn on September 21, 2006 at 4:04 PM

Kaufman and his ilk are pathetic do gooders who want to want to tell you what to think, say, eat. Modern day facists. Send them to Iraq. They are no better than the Islamic Fasicts we are fighting. I am surprised Kaufman and friends are not down in Gitmo appeasing the terrorists.

Posted by scarlson on September 21, 2006 at 7:15 PM

Kaufman continues to appear to be a narcissistic hypocrit who has no problem harassing 17 and 18 year olds to do what he is not willing to do - not come to the University of Illinois.

If he feels so strongly; why did he choose to work fo the U of I? Why does he stay? It's easy for him to harass kids to do what he is not willing to do. He is shameless

Posted by jgiuliani on September 21, 2006 at 10:05 PM

Mr. Kaufman, move to the Cherokee nation, hold your quarters in a teepee, and wake up every morning singing, "Cherokee people...............................Cherokee PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Honestly, get over yourself. If life is so bad for you in Urbana/Champaign, find a new school and a new home. You are not that wanted.

Posted by mbeesley on September 21, 2006 at 11:18 PM

I can't believe that the administration permits employees to actively discourage prospective students from attending the U of I. These subversive activites certainly can't be protected by tenure. I hope someone in the Champaign-Urbana community can ORGANIZE A BOYCOTT OF THEIR CLASSES. If students would indeed boycott these idiot's classes, then maybe they could be fired or they would finally leave.

Posted by sclark on September 21, 2006 at 11:53 PM

Were I to organize and implement a program to cause harm to some facet of my Employer's business, I would find myself on the street in two seconds. I appreciate the right to free speech- let them say what they want. But, undermining the efforts of their employer, the U of I, should be an offense worthy of termination. Then, they can talk all they like.

Posted by Acunningham on September 22, 2006 at 11:45 AM

What a joke!!!! He's earning more than the president & chancellor and the football team still stink! High integrity program? We're on probation!! Thanks Marcus Mason!

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 11:52 AM

Loren, you are a fool.

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 11:52 AM

The defense had nowhere to go but up. I am tired of J Leman getting a free pass. He can't cover a TE. Why is he playing? Is it because he's from Champaign?

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 12:30 PM

Discounted tickets!! There is an idea for Ron Guenther. Too bad he won't do it.

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 12:31 PM

The only thing missing from this article is, "The Illini are bigger, faster, and stronger."

*** BOGGLE ***

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 2:01 PM

"I am tired of J Leman getting a free pass."??? He is second in the league in tackles.

Posted by lroller on September 22, 2006 at 2:52 PM

Take away Miller's getting beat by the Rutgers and Syracuse tight ends and the defense looks even better. I'm with Loren on this one!

Posted by jjohnson on September 22, 2006 at 3:18 PM

"Discounted tickets!! There is an idea for Ron Guenther. Too bad he won't do it."

Well, except when he gave away thousands of free tickets to faculty and staff a couple years ago.

Posted by ralexander on September 22, 2006 at 4:17 PM

Yeah, past tense!!!

Posted by mbeesley on September 22, 2006 at 9:47 PM

A big round of applause to the wide receivers that dropped at least 6, arguably up to 9 passes yesterday!

Also, the coaching decisions late in the 2nd quarter were beyond horrendous.

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 2:11 PM

"Derrick has got to catch that one," Zook said. "I didn't say anything to him. He feels bad enough already."

What?

For a guy that entered the program in 2005 as someone that was 'special' (per Zook himself), what has this guy done?

He finally has the chance for a TD, and he drops it? Last time I checked, wide receivers are typically asked to catch the balls thrown their way.

Zook does not wany to say anything to him? Why? Fine. Don't say anything. Speak with silence by putting him on the scout team for a week.

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 2:14 PM

Again Mr. Kaufman, if life is so bad, take your fully tenured butt out of this 'racist' university that pays your fat salary and find a more 'friendly' place to waste precious payroll dollars.

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 2:19 PM

In looking at Juice's less-than-awe-inspiring stats, don't neglect to consider that his yardage and completions would have been higher save two pass interference calls that helped the team (though the last might have cost a touchdown) but didn't do justice to the Juice's stats. The improvement over Rutgers was very noticeable; I hope he can be more relaxed throwing earlier in the game, though.

Posted by jjohnson on September 24, 2006 at 4:42 PM

kaufman's actions will hasten the exit of the controversial indian

Posted by rmitchell on September 24, 2006 at 4:46 PM

Mr. Kauffman is a disgrace and should be censured. His tenure notwithstanding, there is no place in the University family for one who is intent on hurting the university, while in its employ. Especially, since his objective is already a fait accompli, much to my displeasure.

Posted by skarras on September 24, 2006 at 5:23 PM

I was deeply distressed to find that a professor from my old department, physics, is one of the prime movers of this letter writing project. Physicists are expected to think before they make fools of themselves with emotionally absurd charges that cannot be backed up with experimental data.

Posted by jjohnson on September 24, 2006 at 5:41 PM

What does it say when Jacob Willis gets more playing time than Bryant Creamer?

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 6:01 PM

The coaching decisions were definitely questionable and led to two Iowa touchdowns in the last six minutes of the second quarter. Why switch punters when Yelton was doing fine and why substitute Brasic. The coaches should stick with Juice from now on as it doesn't look like they will be going to a bowl game. Let Juice develop for the rest of the season. Also, it was nice to see an Illinois team playing defense again. I don' think I've seen that in four years.

Posted by lconroyl on September 24, 2006 at 6:02 PM

63-99-2. The attendance woes have nothing to do with the world's greatest AD, Ron Guenther.

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 6:02 PM

Good luck to Coach Mike Hebert, fighting Parkinson's Disease. And thanks to Coach Guenther for hiring Theresa Grentz for big money, insulting Coach Hebert and hastening his move to Minnesota. Illinois volleyball has not recovered.

Posted by mbeesley on September 24, 2006 at 6:06 PM

Why would the scoreboard be moved permanently to the South. Wouldn't having it in the South, block the view of the AH and make it harder to view the scoreboard looking South rather than the North?

Posted by lroller on September 24, 2006 at 6:59 PM

I was very impressed with the play of the defense on Saturday. They are starting to play with some real inspiration and that's encouraging; that is something to cheer about. On the other hand there is a glaring weakness on offense as everyone is pointing out. There is no doubt that Williams has a slingshot for an arm and as he learns to play within himself Illinois will be in these games not just showing flashes at the end. The receivers, however, are an embarrassment. If I were Zook I would threaten to cut their hands off if they don't start using them. These guys aren't showing speed, intelligence (running the wrong routes), or guts. They're afraid of being hit, and they are quitting on plays not to mention their hands of stone. Just a sidenote; I think I would try McPhearson on defense (if he's tough enough) psychologically it might be easier for him to intercept the ball.

Posted by MLACER on September 24, 2006 at 7:28 PM

No one should forget that there was a penalty against Illinois during the play where Derrick dropped the ball. TD would not have counted so discussing the the dropped TD pass is moot.

Posted by jjrepp on September 24, 2006 at 7:31 PM

It's really too bad they couldn't lower the field, allowing the addition of seats closer to the field. That would have reduced the number of lost seats and made crowd noise tougher on opponents. I know the reason why -- it would foul up the site lines of too many other seats. But it's too bad just the same.

Posted by dgcrow on September 24, 2006 at 8:44 PM

I can't believe these individuals would go to the extremes that they have. It sure makes you wonder whether you want your kids taught by these near sighted misguided people. The celebration that is the Chief has been here long before these people found the U. of I. The great majority still enjoy the Chief and look forward to his arrival. It's time to mention names.... so the supporters of the Chief can see what a small group of yoyos is creating such a disturbance

Posted by mustwhiz on September 24, 2006 at 10:04 PM

Who can ever forget the time Johhny hit Jimmie Klein in the end zone up in Ann Arbor for the win!!

Posted by mustwhiz on September 24, 2006 at 10:31 PM

that's good news. Now please no more rugby punts!

Posted by mbeesley on September 26, 2006 at 11:13 AM

OK I am for Wiallms but who is this third string quaterback that is so young...will he ever get a chance?

Posted by dallen on September 26, 2006 at 11:13 PM

Jacob has certainly been a nice find. Now, if the others that are actually on scholarship could actually catch a football that hits them in the hands, perhaps Juice's throwing percentage would be where it should be.

Posted by mbeesley on September 27, 2006 at 1:54 PM

Loren,

I've enjoyed your columns since Bob Blackman was coach, and your article on Jacob Willis was excellent. But it also highlights the problem with this team. We have the two best running backs I've seen at Illinois in the last 35 years (Thomas and Mendenhall) and Zook only gives them the ball less than ten times a game - combined. If he would run the ball 40+ times a game (with the running backs, not the QBs) instead of trying to make stars out of guys who aren't ready, the Illini would win some meaningful games. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Jim K.

Posted by jkezerle on September 27, 2006 at 5:47 PM

Sadly, Ron Guenther's hands were tied... the state legislature won't pay the DIA any operating subsidies... and so he _had_ to balance his budget. He thought Coach Grentz could create a third revenue sport... and he was right. No one could have reasonably expected to make women's volleyball a revenue sport at Illinois.

That being said, I was never enthusiastic about Coach Grentz. I remember Dave Loane trying to sell me on her program and my telling him that I'd be sold when she earned a #1 seed in a regional (i.e., where Mike's program was at its height). It never happened.

Posted by jgrout on September 27, 2006 at 11:55 PM

If the faculty members stooped to calling the Council of Chiefs a "Klan", as the Post-Dispatch recently claimed, their heads are stuck in the ozone. Too bad tenure only allows misbehaving _departments_ to be shut down...

Posted by jgrout on September 28, 2006 at 12:02 AM

Dan Rutherford's full statement on White's employees' contributions can be found here:

http://www.danrutherford.org/PR_rutherford_not_hiring_his_family.asp

Posted by RutherfordCampaign on September 28, 2006 at 10:19 PM

Considering the state of Illinois football, I would to LOVE to have the instability that MSU has- especially considering the fact that they are going to thump our beloved on Saturday.

Posted by mbeesley on September 29, 2006 at 1:18 PM

I guess I agree....we would gladly exchange our

"instability" for theirs.

Posted by walker on September 29, 2006 at 2:39 PM

Would it be too much to ask not to use a blatant Notre Dame shill as the subject for interviews in the Champaign News-Gazette?

Apparently, people forgot quickly the garbage he pulled with Myron Rolle (now at Florida State).

Posted by dpetersen on September 29, 2006 at 3:57 PM

Purdue isn't that strong this year and I firmly believe Illinois will have three victories in the Big Ten vs. Indiana, Purdue, and @ Northwestern. That's a 3-5 record. I'm hoping they can beat Ohio. So a 5-7 record isnt out of the question. I've seen much improvement from last year on defense which is a wonderful sight to see. The only reason Purdue is so good is because they played a weak non-conference schedule. They are going down on Saturday.

Posted by scarlson on September 29, 2006 at 5:04 PM

Lemming not playing favorites for the Army game? Give me a break, Tom. Lemming is behind the times and always will be...good thing Notre Dame pays him the big bucks to pump up that program.

Posted by jjrepp on September 29, 2006 at 5:53 PM

Tom Lemming = shill for ND. How sad.

Posted by scarlson on September 29, 2006 at 10:40 PM

Michigan State's 10 most bizarre losses of the past decade? How about Illinois' 10 worst losses of the Guenther Era? 63-99-2.

Posted by mbeesley on September 30, 2006 at 8:58 AM

The really shameful part is because the justices had never written the rules a girl of any age could get an abortion in Illinois. Absolutley irresponsible.

Posted by wmb on September 30, 2006 at 2:50 PM

Ummm... they lost.

Posted by jgrout on October 1, 2006 at 12:05 AM

I am an Illinois alumnus who has been attending Stanford athletic events since I moved west in 1997. The Stanford Band is proud of its inability to march and indifferent musical ability and has repeatedly concocted off-color halftime sketches (earning them permanent bans at Notre Dame and BYU). The Band is full of problem and underage drinkers who have been repeatedly cited for binge drinking on university property (the Band Shak). In 2006, two different band members serving as the "Tree" (the band's mascot) disgraced the university (one was drunk during a game, another was ejected from a NCAA womens' basketball tournament game for repeatedly disobeying the officials). This summer, a number of band members did tens of thousands of dollars of damage to the Band Shak that was witnessed (but not halted or reported) by other band members. For what the band did, they received a very light punishment: suspension through the first week of classes (September 30th), indefinite adult supervision and continuation of an indefinite ban on on-campus alcohol consumption.

Posted by jgrout on October 1, 2006 at 12:49 AM

Hey Jim Rossow: UPON FURTHER REVIEW..............

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................BIG 10 OFFICIALS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will David Parry be as proactive as the PAC-10 was immediately after the Oklahoma/Oregon debacle? Or, will this piece of dung simply sit back and chalk the Stanton fumble/no fumble call to 'human error'.

Irrefutable proof? My ***!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the CORRECT call would have been made there, Illinois is up 2 scores with 7 to play and WITH the ball.

What a total farce.

Posted by mbeesley on October 1, 2006 at 11:07 AM

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Big 10 officials continue to suck.

Posted by mbeesley on October 1, 2006 at 11:09 AM

I agree that the team should act like it's won before. But it hasn't, and plus it's John L. Smith, resident punk of college football since his Louisville teams pulled shenanigans against Illinois. More bad Big 10 officiating also.

Now, can the team handle success? Great win, let's get some more wins!

Posted by mbeesley on October 1, 2006 at 11:25 AM

The performance against the Spartans in their own backyard wiped out all of the negatives that had accumulated in my mind for the past year. I am extremely happy for the Team and also the fact that the Coaching Staff demonstrated they are capable of leading our Fighting Illini to victory. Three Cheers to the entire Program. We alumni can now hold our heads a bit higher once again.

Posted by pevans on October 1, 2006 at 12:08 PM

Great win. They deserve all the accolades.

However, let's hope they don't get ahead of themselves. Still a tremendous way to go to be consistently competitive with the Big 10 elite. But the journey has started and they deserve our full backing and support.

Posted by scarlson on October 1, 2006 at 1:32 PM

The question is...can Weber recruit? Gordon is the key to his future...and I got a feeling when it comes to him and other Big Ten coaches sitting downs in the same lving roon talking with the prospect, Mom and Dad...Illinois looses.

Posted by dallen on October 1, 2006 at 5:18 PM

It was a great win which will help Illinois recruiting...anybody can see Juice can play...so if you want to play on a winner....get to Illinois while Juice is there!

Posted by dallen on October 1, 2006 at 5:23 PM

The Juice can plan...now go get some real athletes that can play with him and you have Illinois "back in the hunt"! Go Zook!

Posted by dallen on October 1, 2006 at 5:29 PM

Hey Guenther, get those incompetent Big 10 officials fired. Where were you in 2000 after the Michigan debacle?

Run the ball down Indiana's throat.

Posted by mbeesley on October 2, 2006 at 12:35 PM

Never ceases to amaze me how Dave Parry is still the head of Big 10 officiating. He should have been fired years ago.

Posted by dgcrow on October 2, 2006 at 12:43 PM

Funny thing is, I have seen many upon many a people bantering about the 'quality' of Big 10 officials on both the Rivals.com site and IlliniBoard.

Yet, how many of these same fans will actually take 10 minutes out of their day and raise holy **** with the league office?

A simple phone call to 1-847-696-1010 (ask for David Parry) will go a long way to at least making the Big 10 office uncomfortable with our fan base.

Then again, this is contra to our 'nice guy' fan base that we seemingly want to uphold. We would just rather gripe about the officials on a message board and be done with it there.

*** BOGGLE ***

Posted by mbeesley on October 2, 2006 at 3:25 PM

God forbid we try and protect or assist the poor from hosuing discrimination....We all know how much disdain certain people seem to have for the needy, but hey at least we can rely on this city council to keep lining the pockets of wealthy developers with millions of dollars in subsidies (hello Burnham?)

Posted by mattvarbl on October 2, 2006 at 3:52 PM

Is he a scholarship player? What kind of background check did Zook make into this guy...this is really sad.

Posted by dallen on October 2, 2006 at 6:21 PM

Zook is right!...get the calls right!That call was so bad...how can we stop the bleeding?

Posted by dallen on October 2, 2006 at 6:24 PM

"quick fix" and "too good to be true" type player situations are not what will bring the program back to a respectable level. We don't need him. Zook is building this from the ground up and a small setback like this is not a big deal.

Posted by bernson on October 2, 2006 at 7:27 PM

see my comments the last two weeks -- I said we were getting there! Good job Illini!

Posted by jjohnson on October 2, 2006 at 9:47 PM

Geez, couldn't he just walk home?

Posted by mbeesley on October 3, 2006 at 11:52 AM

4-3 would be huge. Please, let's worry about Indiana first.

Posted by mbeesley on October 3, 2006 at 11:53 AM

Let's just all show up at the game--to support the football team and impress the star basketball recruit.

Posted by mmalloy on October 3, 2006 at 1:18 PM

When are we going to see Eddie McGee play?

Posted by dallen on October 3, 2006 at 6:00 PM

You need to get Roger Powell in there and deal with it as he did with with Luther...and I am mean that seriously!

Posted by dallen on October 3, 2006 at 6:05 PM

Illinois has everything to gain and nothing to loose...promote the fact that "the Juice is on the Loose"!

Posted by dallen on October 3, 2006 at 6:10 PM

dude he's redshirting.

Posted by mbeesley on October 4, 2006 at 7:59 AM

I hope our enemies don't know they can thwart our military by putting up wind farms.

Posted by Bramfeld on October 4, 2006 at 10:38 AM

1) Aleaze was high risk/high reward. Oh well.

2) McBride should be suspended for a long time, if not given the boot.

3) Anything less than a win against Indiana would be a massive step backwards.

4) Run the ball down Indiana's throat.

Posted by mbeesley on October 4, 2006 at 12:36 PM

The scoring defense stat is skewed because Illinois has given points up on turnovers (Juice's pick six last week and Brasic's atrocious fumble vs. Syracuse, and the blocked punt @Rutgers).

The defense is actually hitting people.

Posted by mbeesley on October 4, 2006 at 12:38 PM

I am glad someone finally made the argument that the critics have glossed over. The critics have been complaining about the lack of competition, however competition was never going to develop with artifically low prices. I would like to know what whiz came up with that idea. It costs a supplier the same amount to sign up a tiny residential customer as it does to sign up a large industrial. Since customer size translates into more dollars for a supplier, why would a supplier waste time trying to compete for a little residential customer who is already paying really low rates?

Thank you for adding a little more balance to the discussion. Fortunately history is on the side of reason, in that politicians will ramp up the rhetoric in favor of a rate freeze before the election, and then forget about it once the election is over. We need a real solution that will take into account reliability of the system, the ramifications of bankrupt utilities, true market rates, and the needs of the people with fixed incomes.

Regards,

Posted by mforster on October 4, 2006 at 2:15 PM

Hopefully, Vontae, Nate & their coach can team

up on Benn and ultimately cause him to pick

Illinois. that would be as huge a recruit as

eric Gordon.

Posted by walker on October 4, 2006 at 3:51 PM

Hopefully, we rout IU an saturday and EG officially commits while here. That would vent

a lot of hoosier hostilities.

Posted by walker on October 4, 2006 at 3:58 PM

Wunnerful game for us old fans. I would have loved to be at QB club to enjoy Mike White. Hopefully we are on a roll. Thanks for the Sports review each day!

Hope springs eternally!

Posted by raycarlson on October 4, 2006 at 6:49 PM

WE SHOULD NOT GET TO FULL OF OURSELVES BECAUSE OF THE MSU WIN. TAKE A GAME AT A TIME AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. GO ILLINI. IM WORRIED THAT ILLINIOS IS OVERLOOKING IU.

Posted by scarlson on October 5, 2006 at 9:40 AM

The D-line is playing great football, but remember, sacks are also due to good coverage. The coverage isn't great yet, but it is improving. Go Illini.

Posted by jjohnson on October 5, 2006 at 11:34 AM

If the Big 10 is going to use the fine money wisely, I suggest that it start by buying out Dave Parry's contract.

Posted by mbeesley on October 5, 2006 at 12:04 PM

The quote from the Big 10:

"The Big Ten and its member institutions, coaches, student-athletes and fans placea high value on competing fairly and with dignity regardless of the competitive outcome," Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said. "The conduct of the players last week in the postgame environment violated our rules and expectations for student-athletes and as a result we have taken the aforementioned actions."

Well JimBo Delaney, how about the following:

"...competing fairly and with dignity."

I guess that does not apply for your officials, now does it?

Posted by mbeesley on October 5, 2006 at 12:27 PM

Well, at least Parry got instant replay in the Big Ten, although not the way he would have anybody believe. In reality, it was instituted because the refereeing had gotten so bad that the conference had to do something. But apparently instant replay hasn't solved the problem. We now have poor refereeing in the replay booth as well as on the field.

Posted by dgcrow on October 5, 2006 at 1:15 PM

I thought that it took undisputable eveidence

to reverse a call on the field? That's the

travesty in my opinion. Worst case scenario

was that it was "close". Parry should be fined

for his flag throwers bad decisions as well.

Posted by walker on October 5, 2006 at 1:44 PM

I contacted the Big 10 (847-696-1010) on Monday morning. Asked to speak with David Parry.

I was immediately transferred to an assistant of his, but got that broad's phone number. I left a message for this woman, asking her to pass along my message to Dave. Basically, I stated that I was wondering how long the penalty/suspension would be for the officials and the replay official from Saturday's game vs. MSU. I cited the end zone celebration by Willis, the face mask on Mendenhall, and the fumble call.

In all, my message was about 2 minutes. I never received a call.

After reading the fine in today's paper, I decided to call again. I just called and got some young kid. I said, "Yes, I was wondering when the Big 10 plan on announcing the suspensions to the officials from Saturday's game vs. MSU? The kid fumbled for a minute and said, "Ummmmmm........................I should probably transfer you over to Scott in Communications."

Well, after a few seconds, I spoke with Scott. I asked him the same thing. He says, "Can I have your name please? I said, "Certainly!" I gave him my name. And he responds with, "And you are??????" I said, "A concerned fan that helps to pay your salary."

He then says, "Well, Mr. Doe, it is the policy of the Big 10 to not discuss any suspensions or penalities of its conference's officials."

I responded with, "So, the Big 10 is not up to the level of the PAC-10, from the standpoint that the PAC 10 properly announced the suspensions of the officials from the Oklahoma / Oregoon game?"

He again responded with, "Again, the Big 10 will not discuss any suspensions or penalties of its conference's officials."

I closed with, "Thank you Scott, it is reassuring to know that the Big 10 continues to be a laughingstock."

So, I just called the football office in C-U. 1-217-333-1400. The gal there transferred me to Kent Brown's voice mail. Instead of leaving a voice message, i am going to send him an email.

Posted by mbeesley on October 5, 2006 at 2:28 PM

Great work mbeesley !!!1 We need more like you.

Dave Parry and crews are a parody of fairness and justice....are you listening Kent Brown ?????

Posted by scarlson on October 5, 2006 at 5:45 PM

At the risk of having my comments dismissed as sour grapes, I must say that my overriding memory of Mr. Slive is of him as the NCAA's Enforcement Director (I confess I don't recall the precise Job Title) during the Deon Thomas -- Bruce Pearl affair. That being said, I find his being commissioner of the conference with the most flagrant history of cheating -- the SEC -- highly ironic.

If he's half as energetic in policing those big budget programs and their win-at-any-cost, big money boosters, as he was Lou Henson, he should have plenty to do. But, IMHO, I'm not optimistic that he'll do that.

Posted by jeffh on October 6, 2006 at 12:26 PM

mor has it that young Chuck's parents removed the "a" from his laI believe Mr. Slive was an independent investigator or something like that. Chuck Smrt was the (insert unflattering noun of your choice here) heading up the NCAA side.

Posted by knystrom on October 6, 2006 at 1:12 PM

Steve Beckett and I would have loved to supply you with a few questions to ask Mr. Slive. His "representation" of the University of Illinois during the NCAA investigation was, in my opinion, unbelievable. Thanks in part to Illinois Chancellor Mort Weir who eventually got more involved and showed great leadership resulting in the engagement of Mr. Slive ending, the career of Jimmy Collins was saved. And as those that followed the case and have good memories, the Chairman of the NCAA Committee on Enforcement was Roy Kramer, another Illini basher associated with the Southeastern Conference.

Posted by mgoldenberg on October 6, 2006 at 1:14 PM

Slive could easily find his way onto the Illini's top 5 most hated list along with Mel Brewer and S(OB)Kaufman. The SEC knows what they are doing. If you are going to cheat as they have big-time for decades....then hire someone with their nose up the NCAA's _ss!!

Posted by mustwhiz on October 6, 2006 at 4:20 PM

I met my husband at Cochrane's on Hash Wednesday 1984. We have been happily married for 21 years. Hopefully our sons will attend U of I someday--- we couldn't be prouder of our Illini!!!

Posted by dianet on October 7, 2006 at 11:00 AM

There are way too many cars on campus. When I was a student 20 years ago, I could hardly find anyone who had a car to give me a ride just to get groceries.

Mom and dad may let have junior have a car, but I think the University should put the kabosh on that and make them keep it at home.

Posted by shurstrike on October 7, 2006 at 3:51 PM

64-100-2. This loss symbolized the ineptitude that the self-proclaimed "football guy" has brought to the #1 revenue sport. Big crowd of 43K yesterday for homecoming. Thank you, Ron Guenther, for ruining Illinois football. Keep extending Theresa Grentz's contract!

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 10:03 AM

I agree with mbeesley's comments; who cares how good non-revenue generating sports are when the biggest sport couldn't beat a high school team. We can NEVER when a game that means something at home. It is impossible to back a program that has let us down so many times. What a mess.

Posted by dguire on October 8, 2006 at 10:34 AM

How about giving the defense some help? Like:

1. Stop playing to not lose, and play to win

2. Use the tight end more than once a game in the passing game.

3. Understand that when it is 3rd and 6 you don't throw the ball for a completion 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

4. Why to other teams seem to use their wide receivers and IL likes to throw to its backs behind the line of scrimmage? Is there a receiver corps?

5. Either let your freshman quarterback throw for a first down in the fourth quarter, or bench him and let Brasic try. Handing off to a back, time after time, trying to not lose when the defense knows you don't have confidence in him and is stacked against the run is dumb! Three runs and out, three runs and out, three runs and out. No wonder the fans are three losses and out.

Posted by rmiller on October 8, 2006 at 11:38 AM

Why try the trick play on an extra point when things were going so well. Had the coaches decided we already had a "blowout" won, so this was the time to try out some things??????????

Posted by bcorneille on October 8, 2006 at 11:43 AM

Ron Guenther is a "football guy" so don't even mention him in this scenario. I think Zook went into his "prevent offense" because his confidence has to grow---just like the players' has to grow. This team will continue to improve and be a contender next season. Forget all the exotic strategy---recruiting is still the key. I like what I see in that regard.

Ken Zimmerman

Posted by kzimmerman on October 8, 2006 at 12:01 PM

It seems the coaches are afraid to put the players in position to win. Throw the ball, everyone who watched the game knew the Illini were going to run it every play down the stretch what that did was put the punter on the spot. Steve Wetherford has graduated, if the coaches are going to go with Juice Williams let him decide the game not your punter who is just elated to get the kick off. Every sport is about momentum the coaches switched the momentum from good to bad with their switch in play calling. They have nothing to lose let the players play.

Posted by jbloxam on October 8, 2006 at 12:14 PM

Great story on Jamar, much thanks, and welcome to the Illini Nation, Mr. Klee. NaplesIllini

Posted by lmaran on October 8, 2006 at 1:35 PM

Blame can go to just about everyone today, but the two primary culprits were Zook and Locks. Beyond pathetic. Locks is proving that he is not cut out to be a Big 10 Offensive Coordinator. He has to be on his game each and every week, not every other, or not every 3rd week.

The play calling from about the 6 minute point of the 2nd quarter through the rest of the game is something that would have made Tom Beck or Paul Schudel proud. Boring and predictable- the true contra to how the Illini started the game.

It was as if Zook & Co. felt that they should not run up the score on Indiana. Then, when Indiana made a game of it, they simply tried to rely on a patchwork defense to save the game.

That backfired, and the coaching staff had their butts handed to them.

If Guenter and Zook are wondering where the fans are (43K for a homecoming????), just look to the state of the program and the performance yesterday. Fans deserve better than what they saw yesterday.

Then again, Illinois has mastered the late game defeat at Memorial Stadium through the years. In the early 1990's, before Northwestern was even good, they managed a last minute TD to beat Illinois.

How about 1994? Losing to Purdue on homecoming, then losing to Penn State in the manner in which they did.

It was either 1994 or 1995 when Northwestern escaped with a victory.

When was the last time the Illini had a last second score to win a game? Chris Richardson in 1991?

A journalist for another paper said it best. Zook & Co. will be able to recruit enough good players were 9-2 each year could be warranted. However, with the game day coaching skills, we better not expect anything better than 6-5 each year long term.

I have seen enough of Locksley. He can go.

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:07 PM

Juice deserved better. An amoeba could have called a better game for the Illini midway through the second quarter and on on Saturday.

Let's see if I remember it correctly. Handoff by Juice to the right. Handoff by Juice to the left. Another handoff, and then punt.

The coaches for some reason never caught onto this. Not Juice's fault. Let the kid do what he was doing early in the game.

Beyond pathetic. Great job coaching staff.

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:09 PM

The Illini defense, well, they played like a typical Illini defense:

1) Slow.

2) Could not tackle.

3) Gave up big plays when big stops were needed.

As for the 'slow' factor, did anyone notice how quick the Indiana LB's were to the ball? What looked like a big play forthcoming, their LB's would simply fly to the ball, and imagine this, actually make the tackle. What a novel concept!

Illinois' defense was able to stop Drew Stanton, but they could not stop the 'flavor of the week' QB for Indiana? A nobody whom will never be a somebody?

Seems to me that these players did a wonderful job of looking at their press clippings after the MSU game.

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:12 PM

"You don't walk barefoot in a cow pasture. And you don't kick the football to Marcus Thigpen. It took Illinois too long to figure it out."

No, you do kick the ball to Marcus Thigpen. Problem is, you don't have 7 of the 10 guys running down field outside of the hashmarks for a guy that is north/south runner. Teresa Grentz could have taken the opening kickoff in the 2nd half to the house.

"Angry fans were giving Ron Zook the business on postgame radio, and the bashing likely will carry over to Thursday's coach's show. The first try  a trick play  I can handle. But trying to play catchup on the next score is hard to explain."

Ding, ding, ding..................we have a winner!!!! I was one of those fans that called. Seems like Zook wants to defend this, like he wants to defend the Warren rugby punt. It takes a humble man to admit when they are just flat stupid. Perhaps he will admit this Thursday night?

"As Indiana players ran off the field, a few Illinois fans chanted "SIU, SIU ," in reference to the Hoosiers' loss earlier this season to the Division I-AA Salukis. An Indiana player responded, "Enjoy homecoming."

A well deserved comeback by the Indiana player. And continued proof at just how stupid the Illini fan base is. Does these Illini fans now contend that SIU is the better football program in Illinois?

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:17 PM

"If I could put a finger on it, I'd be a rich man," Leman said. "We do have to bring it every week. We're just inconsistent right now."

Not a big deal Leman. You can take a dayoff every once in a while. After all, there are 162 games in a season.

Sorry, my bad, thought we were talking about football.

12 games this year, and you don't bring it vs. Indiana?

Unreal. No, check that. Pretty understandable when it comes to an Illini defense.

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:18 PM

Can he play football? Will he catch passes thrown to him?

Better yet, does he have any experience as an offensive coordinator?

Posted by mbeesley on October 8, 2006 at 2:21 PM

Sure, it was a disappointment, and there is plenty of blame to go around (juggled passes, missed tackle, etc), and nothing can adequately explain the play calling, but mbeesley has an awfully short memory as well as a short fuse. Illinois won a last second game 8 days ago; it beat Rutgers in OT 13 months ago; the Minnesota game, well, a few more years ago, but what does that have to do with Zook and Locksley?

Posted by jjohnson on October 8, 2006 at 4:09 PM

What a difference a week makes. Maybe expectations were too high, but the flashes of ability on offense in the first quarter and the way the defense in fact recovered in the third quarter should make it very clear that this is not 2005 all over again.

Posted by jjohnson on October 8, 2006 at 4:17 PM

mbeesley was certainly busy this afternoon. Also, he certainly believes he has all the answers. Ever coached mbeesley?

Posted by tlappin on October 8, 2006 at 4:54 PM

Let Juice throw the ball when the game is on the line...this season is letting him learn and forget trying to win this season...it ain't goonna happen...just bring us some exciting football...win or loose! Open up the game with Juice and have some fun!!!

Posted by dallen on October 8, 2006 at 5:46 PM

The defense stunk! Allowing Indiana that many points is not acceptable. It is a game Illinois should have won...especially at home! Don't blame Juice...he put plenty of points on the board! Too bad...and I am sick of defeat after defeat!

Posted by dallen on October 8, 2006 at 5:51 PM

Thanks for the story. We love Jamar. Great kid, talented, and most importantly, hustles. We look forward to your articles- welcome!

Posted by apagelee on October 8, 2006 at 9:23 PM

We got zookered (hate to say but maybe the Gator fans made some good points about this coach's pentchant for stupid decisions) - another example of poor play-calling by going for an unnecessary 2 point conversion early in the game. The lack of 2 simple extra point kicks came back to haunt us since the coaches also decided to crawl into a shell in the 2nd half. It hurt to fly all the way from CA and watch the punting decisions in the Iowa game, and it hurt to watch on TV and wonder why our coaches make the decisions they're making. So maybe I just won't anymore . . .

Posted by hpaulh on October 9, 2006 at 11:09 AM

It's unclear to me why we decided to go for two on our second touchdown. That ultimately created the loss instead of at least going into overtime, which wouldn't have been necessary either if the coaching staff hadn't decided to go "conservative" for the entire second half.

Let the coaches stay home on game day and let Juice call his own game. The results would have been better. (Just ask him if he would have went for two on that second touchdown?!

Posted by jroconsult on October 9, 2006 at 11:17 AM

Coaches are responsible for putting their players in the best place to perform and succeed. The playcalling by this staff has been questionable right from the start of their tenure as they forced us to watch all the skill players stop and turn toward the sideline to get someone's permission to run the play. I've been searching for more then this season, and haven't yet seen another college team imitate the Zook/Locks approach to playcalling. And this has nothing to do with the plays that are called, which are in many instances confusing at best.

Posted by hpaulh on October 9, 2006 at 11:17 AM

12 games is too many. I've wish they'd go back to 10 games with an end of season playoff system. The regular season should not start until the Saturday after Labor Day and should end by the Saturday before Thanksgiving. But, reducing the number of games will never happen. Too many $$ at stake, and that's what drives everything in college football these days.

Posted by dgcrow on October 9, 2006 at 12:17 PM

I'm sure Ron Zook would make a dynamic recruiting coordinator or defensive coordinator. I'm not so sure about his ability to lead a major program longterm. It didn't work at Florida, and two straight losses to IU suggest it won't work here either.

Posted by vreato on October 10, 2006 at 12:15 PM

Long term at Florida? Give the guy a break! But coach, everyone would be happier if you admitted that the play-calling was a mistake.

Posted by jjohnson on October 10, 2006 at 12:44 PM

I think Loren may be overreacting to this loss. Even if they had won, the program still has a long, long way to go.

Let's wait to judge Zook in another year when he has built up couple of solid recruiting classes.

Posted by aratnakar on October 10, 2006 at 1:14 PM

Attracting young football talent with your personality and the promise of drastic facility improvements is one thing, leading and guiding that talent on the field is quite another.

Being able to put talented, physical players on the field is one thing, having them be able to play as a consistent winning team is quite another. I don't think it matters how long Ron Gunther is willing to give to Zook and his staff, the bell will toll sooner than anyone thinks if the type of coaching mistakes that were made on Saturday continue.

The University has based the loyality and generosity of its alumni on a winning team; the payment on that loyality and generosity becomes due very soon!

Posted by MLACER on October 10, 2006 at 5:01 PM

Coach Zook has definitely shown he is a far better recruiter than Coach Turner. However, Coach Turner's play calling was somehat predictable. If he threw an incomplete pass on first down, 95% of the time he would run on second down. Zook has increased the talent level in just two years and it will be even better next year. You're never going to be a consistent winner in the Big Ten if you don't the talent and speed at key positions. At this point, I'd be happy if Illinois were just competitive on a consistent basis in the Big Ten, with an occasional Big Ten title. Coach Zook needs to post at least a 6-6 record next year or Guenther should start looking for another coach. Remember, Coach Turner had Illinois 8-4 and in a bowl game his third year from 0-11 in 1997 his first year.

Posted by lconroyl on October 10, 2006 at 5:33 PM

Interesting to me that Slive was on the NCAA Tournament selection committee last year. The SEC and his buddy, Bruce Pearl, made out like bandits (recall that Pearl and Tennessee got a ridiculously undeserved 2 seed).

Posted by ralexander on October 11, 2006 at 1:39 AM

No questions about losing out to Kittner at the start of the '99 season? Or playing against MSU at the end of the '97 season? Or how about scoring a rushing touchdown on his birthday in the MiconPC bowl in '99?

Posted by ralexander on October 11, 2006 at 1:55 AM

Uh...did you forget the last second score to win against Michigan St. LAST WEEK?

Posted by ralexander on October 11, 2006 at 1:59 AM

WHY, WHY, WHY is E.B. Halsey still the punt returner? After single-handedly tanking the Rutgers game by allowing the first offensive possesion to start deep in Rutgers territory, simply refusing to field a punt in any sort of traffic, and bobbling and fumbling more punts than I care to remember, there simply has to be somebody better at this job on the team.

It boggles the mind.

Posted by ralexander on October 11, 2006 at 2:41 AM

its over, boys and girls. may the chief lie down on a bed of his own bonnet.

Posted by rmitchell on October 11, 2006 at 12:50 PM

it's time to let the chief go. And, do it now while the NCAA can be blamed.

Posted by vreato on October 11, 2006 at 1:28 PM

I now live in Florida but as an Urbana, Illinois native and twice U of I graduate, I am deeply repulsed by the nimsby/pimsby and cowardly approach "championed" by the University of Illinois Administration with respect to this matter. I see the ugly and offensive Florida State savage indian symbolism everywhere; however, that is more than OK with the NCAA because the Seminole tribe is being financially compensated (paid off) for FSU's use of their image. This crass and commercially motivated sense of "ethics" is apparently fine with Myles Brand and the NCAA leaders who espouse this brand of situational ethics. I only wish that the University of Illinois President and Board of Trustees would have taken the "let's fight them" approach that T.K. Wetherell (FSU President) did in his highly successful encounter on this issue within a matter of only a few months.

Posted by Lanse on October 11, 2006 at 1:57 PM

As a former City of Champaign Human Relations Commissioner I can say the current process in place (or lack thereof) is a complete joke and window dressing made to look good instead of actually addressing legitimate complaints. I also recall reading how Mayor Schweighart appeared before the Human Relations Commission several years ago and angrily denounced the concept of granting power of a police review commission to the City Human Relations Commission.

I also find it funny that the News Gazette also views this simply as " born of a desire to reassure members of minority community..." issue, instead of viewing it as an issue of fairness that has the potential to affects everybody in the community.

I believe the news is instead trying to frame the police review board proposal in that context as "born of a desire to reassure the minority community..." as an attempt to divide people along ethnicity and minimize the issue instead of examine its true merits.

I am Caucasian and I see merit in this proposal and campaigned on this issues when I ran for City Council in 2005.

Posted by mattvarbl on October 11, 2006 at 2:43 PM

If the UI decides to retire the Chief, it should be its own decision. It shouldn't be forced by the NCAA, nor should it be able to blame the NCAA.

Posted by dgcrow on October 11, 2006 at 4:48 PM

Thanksgiving games only work well for locals, not for us out-of-towners and family people

Posted by jjohnson on October 12, 2006 at 11:50 AM

"until now, electric rates in Illinois have been so low that no other suppliers wanted to enter the market."

Yet it remains unstated that the utility companies here still managed to make record profits with the rate freeze in effect......Please try to at least pretend to be objective and not to be biased and at least report the entire set of facts.

On Sept. 20, 2006 it was reported that Ameren leaders have been complaining for years that they need an increase to cover what the company pays for energy. But AmerenIP's parent corporation, Ameren Corp., reported record profits of $628 million for fiscal year 2005.

The predicted rate increases the company has proposed across the state would add another $680 million a year to the utility company's bottom line.

So please explain how this is "fair"...Maybe the News-Gazette would like to begin volunteering to pay the increased price of all of its subscribers power bills since they think this is so "fair" to the consumer to continue to line the pockets of record profit making Ameren Corporation.

Posted by mattvarbl on October 12, 2006 at 2:32 PM

If the coaches are so convinced that Pierre Thomas is the best player, funny that we didn't run it up the middle three straight times with 2 minutes remaining at Michigan St.

Posted by ralexander on October 12, 2006 at 2:49 PM

Evidence over the past 25 years suggests that when an Illini football coach starts talking about establishing the run, we are in for a long season. Whatever happened to passing to set up the run?

Posted by dafoutch on October 12, 2006 at 7:04 PM

Sampson is ethically bankrupt and without a conscience so his deplorable behavior is not the story here. The surprise to me is that Gordon, who seemed like an honorable kid who knew the meaning of "commitment" and could be trusted, ended up being influnced by one of the more despicable characters in the college game.

The IU administration and fans must be swelling with pride over their new hire and the ethical depths he has plunged to. I'll take Bruce, thank you.

Posted by dthonn on October 13, 2006 at 1:00 PM

The IU administration and fans will be swelling with pride. Regardless of the Sampson deplorable behavior, unfortunately in all other circles other than Illini Nation, this will viewed as a great "win" for IU. It is also a very bad sign for our program from a recruiting perspective. Every top recruit that Bruce has offered on has gone elsewhere. We are now just going to be seeing the signs of a program here at the UI in decline. I believe in Coach Weber's coaching ability, but we have to have the players to be able to coach them and not one top in-state player has committed over the past couple of years.

Posted by tlwillard on October 13, 2006 at 1:13 PM

It is intersesting to think about what might have happened if Self never left. the great Final 4 team would have included Charlie V. The present

team would undoubtedly have J.Wright, Collins and

Brandon Rush for sure. You could also build a case

that at least one other surprise would have come

on board as well (maybe Scheyer?). Oh well, we will still be relatively successful this year and

we have a great coach. Let's hope IU doesn't add

insult to injury by adding Rose, but I have a feeling that's coming as well.

Posted by walker on October 13, 2006 at 1:54 PM

This a bad sign for Illinois basketball...Self would have gotten Gordan....it is that simple...Illinois program is going in the wrong direction...sad...no Final Four for the Orange and blue in the near future.

Posted by dallen on October 13, 2006 at 2:18 PM

It would have been a great event if Illinois would have gotten Gordan...it will bow therefore be a "flat event"!

Posted by dallen on October 13, 2006 at 2:21 PM

It would have been a great event if Illinois would have gotten Gordan...it will bow therefore be a "flat event"!

Posted by dallen on October 13, 2006 at 2:21 PM

Thank the Lord it is finally over. It may hurt, but it is not the end of the world. Every team gets thirteen scholarships. I'll take my chances with Coach Weber and the thirteen on his team.

Posted by furlan on October 13, 2006 at 3:55 PM

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda, Bruce Weber offer a scholarship to Jeffrey Jordan, you will have a four year player and the backing of the number one man in basketball-it's the way of today's world a person's word doesn't mean the same it did twenty years ago it's a shame it took this long for Eric Gordan to break his word.

Posted by jbloxam on October 13, 2006 at 4:41 PM

There is more to success than talent. Illinois offered Gordon a great coach, a great program and a great school. If Gordon chose the cesspool at Indiana, it says a lot about him. He won't be missed.

Posted by cdwatson on October 13, 2006 at 7:26 PM

Face it you can't sugar coat this one. The program and Coach Weber's recruiting reputation took a huge hit. He has not been able to land a top recruit from the state of illinois even after a FINAL FOUR run TO SAY THE LEAST I AM VERY DISAPOINTED THE GORDONS PLAYED US LIKE FOOLS TO THE END, TIMING COULD NOT BE WORSE.

Posted by scarlson on October 14, 2006 at 2:32 AM

Loren, you missed the boat and you have no guts. Wow - that is very disappointing. How about reading what any self-respecting sports journalist would say: http://www.nbadraft.net/rabinowitz004.asp .

Gordon is a perfect fit for Kelvin Sampson: no integrity, no moral compass. Obviously talent has no tie to maturity and values, but still this kid embarrassed himself, in my opinion. Mmoreover, Indiana University has an embarrassment in charge of their once-honorable basketball program.

Posted by swatlas on October 14, 2006 at 9:37 AM

Loren: Hope you read these comments, but something tells me you don't. You know we pay your salary by subscribing to the NG. See comment above at http://www.nbadraft.net/rabinowitz004.asp. Can't believe you are giving Sampson a free pass. Sickening ! The problem is Weber won't hire all player family friends and is not a good enough recruiter to compete with the Self's and Sampson's. You are right about so many top prospects slipping through the cracks. Its very disappointing and bodes ill for the program to obtain really "Elite" status, and everyone knows what I am talking about here. A truely SAD day.

Posted by scarlson on October 14, 2006 at 12:05 PM

Loren, in your dotage you missed the point.

It is totally inexcusable to string along Weber the way the Gordon family did.

If what the Gordons/Sampson said is true (and I have my doubts), the honorable thing to do whould to announce a re-opening of recruiting and de-commit rather than to keep assuring Weber that everything was fine.

If this would have happened in May, UI recruiting wouldn't have suffered.

I guess Gordon Srs attending Liberty University didn't teach him Christian principles, did it?

Posted by jorge on October 14, 2006 at 1:09 PM

jorge hit the bulls eye above...the right thing

for gordon to do would have been to de-commit when

he began to have second thoughts. instead he strung us along for 3 or 4 more months. that impact to recruiting is greater than the gordon

loss itself

Posted by walker on October 14, 2006 at 2:30 PM

I smell off-shore accts for the likes of Papa Gordon, Anthony Longstreet, Reggie Rose, etc. with an Adidas heading. Trust me, the next B'ball scandal will involve a shoe company.

The real crime in this entire mess is that the continued courting of Gordon cost us the signature of Evan Turner, who will now become a 4 year player at Ohio St.

Posted by mschultz on October 14, 2006 at 5:32 PM

Mr. Tate, I for one appreciated this column. Well done - eloquent and slightly sad.

Posted by ralexander on October 14, 2006 at 6:53 PM

GOD Bless Dee and Deron

Posted by scarlson on October 15, 2006 at 12:59 PM

Who cares anymore? This football program needs to be blown up and started over again. Memorial Stadium is being rebuilt for what? Nobody will come and see a team that couldn't beat a high school team. The athletic department should be ashamed to have let the football program turn into such a laughing stock.

Posted by dguire on October 15, 2006 at 1:56 PM

How much longer can the Athletic Department wait for the program to improve? While the Fighting Illini may not be an overly talented team, I question the adequacy of the Coaching resources to bring it up to the competitive level that is expected in the conference. I am now projecting from six to ten years and maybe 1-2 coaching changes if ever. An alternative would be to seek a lower level conference to compete in.

Posted by pevans on October 15, 2006 at 2:05 PM

Just out of curiosity: If this really is the last season for the Chief, why aren't more folks showing up for that reason alone? Are people as really as bent out of shape about it as everyone says? Or are pro-Chiefers just a vocal minority like anti-Chiefers?

The point being, the idea of the Chief's final performance in Memorial Stadium being in front of less than 30,000 fans is really disheartening. If the administration really intends this to his final tour of duty, the DIA will wisen up and make that a selling point to get people in the seats. Granted, they'd all arive late and leave right after halftime, but it's better than nothing.

Unless the same person in charge of marketing the football team is the same guy who decided Bruce Weber riding in to Midnight Madness in a side car driven by Jimmy John was a grand idea. Then we're in trouble.

Posted by ralexander on October 15, 2006 at 4:28 PM

Apart from the obvious reaction to Gordon's decision, is most important a very clear endorsement of Bruce Weber and his program by past players.

All Illini should recognize that a coach is judged by his winning record, and not who he brings in. A case in point is Bill Self, who clearly inherited a talented team, and appears to have outrecruited Weber, butI doubt Bill Self could have done what Weber did the past three years. Actually, would any of us have been pleased with Self's post season performance?

Posted by skarras on October 15, 2006 at 5:05 PM

Two years ago, the Illini ranked something like 108th in defense; going into Saturday, they were 58th. Last year, Illinois basically couldn't score against an IU team much weaker than this year's team, this year, it took two blown 2 point conversions and a last second field goal for IU to win. Should Illinois have won the past two weeks, "yes," but just think what that expectation itself says about the improvement that is going on. Juice Williams should be a red-shirt, yet even with his obvious inexperience and often misthrown passes (look how many Saturday, including the TD to Cumberland, were behind the receiver), the offense occasionally shows a spark that it has seldom had since 2001. BE PATIENT FOR 2 MORE YEARS, please!

Posted by jjohnson on October 15, 2006 at 5:42 PM

16 true freshmen -- I repeat, let's give them some time. And was I the only one who saw a ref calling the play dead when Hudson's forward progress was stopped?

Posted by jjohnson on October 15, 2006 at 5:45 PM

It'll come!

Posted by jjohnson on October 15, 2006 at 5:51 PM

jjohnson; spoken like a true illini fan, content with years of mediocrity. We shouldn't be like cub fans, we should demand a winning program and expect it. We've been waiting for YEARS.

Posted by dguire on October 15, 2006 at 7:34 PM

Who cares anymore? This football program needs to be blown up and started over again. Memorial Stadium is being rebuilt for what? Nobody will come and see a team that couldn't beat a high school team. The athletic department should be ashamed to have let the football program turn into such a laughing stock.

Posted by dguire on October 15, 2006 at 7:35 PM

If Weber can recruit someone to help next year, I believe that is what should be done. I always wonder about the juco ranks. Shouldn't there be a solid wing out there with two years left looking for a home? Why save scholarships for the next year, only to have those kids sign with Iu, or Kentucky, orDuke? The top priority should always be the next year

Posted by vreato on October 18, 2006 at 2:29 PM

Don't Brasic and Maddox provide a compelling counter-argument to the positives of redshirting? A fifth year has done little for their ability to perform on the field.

Posted by ralexander on October 18, 2006 at 3:48 PM

Let the juice go...let him do his thing...he is all that is left for this season!

Posted by dallen on October 19, 2006 at 11:48 PM

Who is going to get the scholarship that was going to the Indianan kid?

Posted by dallen on October 20, 2006 at 12:46 PM

Sadly, it appears as if nobody will get the scholarship promised to the "Indiana kid." That's something Illinois fans have been dealing with ever since the Lou Henson days. We never seem to have a fallback when our recruiting priorities go elsewhere. Henson was great for saving that scholarship for next year's class. He outlived his recruiting usefulness several years before he finally left.

Posted by vreato on October 20, 2006 at 2:08 PM

Hats off to the defense, you made us all proud !

Posted by scarlson on October 23, 2006 at 12:09 AM

I second that. Defense, you really made us proud!

Posted by apagelee on October 23, 2006 at 7:57 AM

I am so sick of Blago, I voted early for Judy. She has earned my admiration and respect. Blago, on the other hand, has taken my view of the Illinois Governor even further into the pit after the George Ryan fiasco. I didn't think my view of Governor could go lower. Blago made sure it did!

Away with him!

Posted by wtechau on October 23, 2006 at 7:59 AM

JJ - You must be a Cub's fan too!!

Posted by jhelms on October 23, 2006 at 10:24 PM

Given the rife corruption throughout both the Democratic and Republican parties in Illinois it is alarming that the most the News-Gazette editorializers can muster of the only true alternative to corruption is the last paltry paragraph out of nine.

It would seem the N-G has a conflict of interest -- good clean politicians don't generate as salacious news as the mudslinging corrupt ones...

Posted by dw on October 24, 2006 at 10:23 AM

Hey Paul, what's this about our "two seniors"?

Don't we have three? (Arnold, McBride & Carter)

Posted by walker on October 24, 2006 at 3:18 PM

Judy Baar Topinka is not the answer to Rod Blagojevich.

It is time we elect a candidate that is not, in any way, connected to George Ryan or corruption.

Although I believe Rich Whitney would be better than the other two candidates appearing on the ballot, write-in candidate Randy Stufflebeam is the best choice.

Stufflebeam is a former Marine and is the only candidate in the race that supports Protect Marriage Illinois.

For more info on Randy Stufflebeam log onto www.runrandyrun.com.

Posted by votesmart on October 24, 2006 at 4:21 PM

I'm glad to read an endorsement that reflects common sense. Whether its doing nothing while Blago raided the college license plates fund, nepotism in hiring, or the Cecil Turner conviction, Jesse's time has come.

Posted by cmosquito on October 25, 2006 at 7:55 PM

Couldn't agree more, Loren. Overlooked in most of the press coverage Saturday was what a solid game Vonte Davis played, and of course, the lateral pursuit is so much better than the previous two years it is almost beyone belief.

Posted by jjohnson on October 25, 2006 at 8:51 PM

This is a charade. I hope he changes his mind, again, and stays home.

Posted by dthonn on October 26, 2006 at 1:17 PM

I hope it's for real. Perhaps, as has been speculated on the Illiniboard, he doesn't want to share the spotlight with Gordon, and now knows he won't have to in CU.

Posted by jeffh on October 26, 2006 at 1:31 PM

We could go from the biggest unexpected recruiting

nightmare in UI history to the best recruiting

surprise in UI history, all within 30 days.

Start the love fest for Fri. night.

Posted by walker on October 26, 2006 at 1:51 PM

It would help make up for the Gordon fiasco!

Posted by dallen on October 26, 2006 at 2:15 PM

Sounds like another prima dona just wanting to grab a headline. I think that Coach Weber should go for the blue collar kind of guys who really want to play for the Illini

Posted by dswengel on October 26, 2006 at 2:49 PM

Sorry to hear about Randle talking so openly about

leaving early. He needs to focus completely on his

weaknesses and not what he would do if he were a

first rounder.

Posted by walker on October 26, 2006 at 3:22 PM

Regarding Kirk Ferentz' comments on the refereeing in the Michigan game, at one time I foolishly thought that replay would solve most of the Big 10 officiating problems. However, this season I realize that Dave Parry is just as adept at putting incompetent referees in the replay booth as he is on the field.

Posted by dgcrow on October 26, 2006 at 8:23 PM

Weber needs to get on it!

Posted by dallen on October 27, 2006 at 4:52 PM

If Rose is actually visiting, (which I doubt) no Illini fans should get their hopes up. This is a big tease, what another way to torture Bruce Weber and his ability to recruit a 5 star ?...... after the Gordon fiasco....what a nightmare, we don't need another circus !!!!

Posted by scarlson on October 28, 2006 at 8:17 AM

tough game , too bad we could not quite win the game hopefully we can have another great recruiting year - including a punter-- as a whole the defense has been great - coaches seem to be well qualified -- go Illini-- Dwight Hollonbeck , Naperville, IL.

Posted by dhollonbeck on October 29, 2006 at 1:42 AM

Who is Zook recruiting again now for next year?

Posted by dallen on October 29, 2006 at 4:35 PM

The punting is horrific. Yelton looks intimidated and his performance reflects that mindset. Clearly, there don't appear to be any solutions this year---tryouts from the students? This has to be solved for next year: recruit, recruit, recruit!

Posted by kellytm on October 30, 2006 at 8:15 AM

Cumberland might want to get his head into the game more consistently. The illegal procedure at the end of the game that negated a large gain was him loafing back to the line of scrimmage when the offense was ready to snap the ball. Nice work Jeff.

Posted by kellytm on October 30, 2006 at 8:26 AM

Illinois can not hope to compete with a kicking game that consistently places the opposition in good field position

Posted by bcorneille on October 30, 2006 at 10:50 AM

When the City of Urbana first announced their plan to help the Atkins Group develop the Douglas Farm into a Meijer super store, I became the spokesman for my neighbors. We were opposed to the development because it was sprawl and a waste of high quality farm land. Besides the process by which the City went about the rezoning was flawed and really without public discussion. At best, all had been agreed upon "behind closed doors". I along with many of my neighbors went to many public hearings and despite the fact that the first hearing was during the Thanksgiving Holiday..we managed to fill the Urbana City Council Chambers many times. The property was rezoned and a plan was made for a superstore. The neighbors lost as well did Urbana as other properties were left vacant and undeveloped. Ultimately, I was the main individual in a law suit against the city which ended up in the Illinois Supreme Court.

I chose to run against Tod for Mayor of Urbana when the Atkins Group announced plans for an 18 screen movie theater on the Rose Farm. This plan eventually fell through but my neighbors had numerous meetings with the Atkins Group which led to a very nice development of the land out here in southeast Urbana.

The Meijer superstore is still a bad idea....there is not enough business here to support what we already

have....where Jerry's IGA was is empty...the KMart is gone and not yet redeveloped...the Jewel is long gone....I did learn you can't fight City Hall....we did not stop the Meijer Store...they chose not to build until now. Our protesting had no effect...a Meijer VP told me that they were used to protesting and if they wanted to build they would...I am far enough down the road to not be directly impacted but there are many people who have lived for 50 years at that corner who will be forced to deal with more traffic, noise, garbage and intrusion into their quiet lives. I said I don't care...I do...but there is little I can do to stop Meijer from coming.

I hope that we reap benefits from this business coming but I doubt it. Southeast Urbana was a quiet and serene place...we shall see.

Posted by crdmike on October 30, 2006 at 7:24 PM

As a resident of Urbana, I am delighted and excited to welcome Meijers to Urbana. It will bring in more needed tax revenue to the City and will also provide another shopping option to the area. For those that are opposed to the development, when you build on the edge of town, you do so knowing that you cannot control who your future neighbors are. If you want a place without "more traffic, noise, garbage, and intrusion into their quiet lives", then perhaps you should move to la-la land, I hear the real estate market is great around there. It's a fact:it is cheaper to build new than to tear down and build new. It is also a fact that demographics and traffic patterns change. I'd be the first to recommend that Meijer or any other retailer should take the place of K-Mart, but the vehicle traffic there is one tenth that of the location of the planned store.

Welcome, Meijer. I look forward to having another store besides Wal-Mart in Urbana that caters to the same market but with higher quality and the best produce section in town.

Posted by hamiller on October 30, 2006 at 7:54 PM

I'm at least happy that our guys maintain their

enthusiasm, but seriously Kevin M., I believe

everybody already knows "where we are at" !

Posted by walker on October 31, 2006 at 1:03 PM

Goes to show how special the '05 team really was.

What one player on the squad now has even a

50/50 chance to land in the NBA ? Maybe brian

Posted by walker on October 31, 2006 at 1:08 PM

What's the main difference between Wrigley Field

& Busch Stadium hotdogs? Editor's note: you can

buy Busch Stadium dogs in October

Posted by walker on October 31, 2006 at 1:15 PM

. . . and "where we are at" is way ahead of last year and, I think, really better in terms of competitiveness (though not in the all-important-in-years-to-come W column) than anyone could rationally have expected -- and I was hoping for a bowl!

Posted by jjohnson on October 31, 2006 at 2:27 PM

Ron Turner is right.

Posted by jjohnson on October 31, 2006 at 2:30 PM

A plea to Illini fans all over the world to search every nook and cranny for a PUNTER; any where--soccer goalies, rugby players, juco kickers, high school kickers, former PP & K winners, troops in Iraq, intra-mural teams, leave no stone unturned. Zook is being kind, but reality is poor punting has cost at least two games. We know you did the best you could, dude, it's not your fault.

Posted by bstouffer on October 31, 2006 at 6:32 PM

If everyone is so upset about the Chief, why is his final tour of duty drawing crowds in the 30,000s?

Posted by ralexander on November 1, 2006 at 2:18 AM

Ok, your point is fair, but did any of those 5th-year guys produce significantly more in their redshirt freshman year than they would have in a regular freshman year?

Now, take those 5th-year producers and imagine what they might have done with that kind of production the year BEFORE as 4th year seniors.

You can find just as many example in Illini history of 4th-year seniors who produced just as much as the 5th year players, and just as little as regular freshman as redshirt freshman.

Now, how many of those 5th year players produced as much as 4th year-juniors?

To assume a 4th year senior - say Robert Archibald - who played extremely well would have then produced as much has he been a junior and then had similar production as a 5th year senior is nonsense. Such historical examples don't exist.

Posted by ralexander on November 1, 2006 at 2:05 PM

It sure must be nice to be a Buckeye fan. How

would we feel to be #1 in football and then to

take a look over your shoulder at what Matta has

and is doing.

Posted by walker on November 1, 2006 at 1:03 PM

Not to mention the recruiting fiascoes that then ensue. If Robert Archibald and Damir Krupalija were still around - THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SCHOLARSHIPS AVAILABLE FOR JAMES AUGUSTINE.

Posted by ralexander on November 1, 2006 at 2:07 PM

And yes, Pruitt is improving, but who's to say that freshman year where he didn't produce much didn't show him exactly what he needed to do to improve. To assume all other developments remain the same and just add a year to their age is nonsense. I don't think Pruitt would be quite as good now had he sat his freshman year.

And if Carter was around for another year, say goodbye to Bill Cole or Mike Tisdale.

Posted by ralexander on November 1, 2006 at 2:09 PM

Pruitt wouldn't be peaking at the end of the next season if he had had a redshirt year. He'd peak the year after, as a 5th-year senior.

Posted by ralexander on November 1, 2006 at 2:10 PM

Wisconsin has the same record as Notre Dame, and the Badgers have played a tougher schedule. Why do you rank Notre Dame higher than Wisconsin?

Posted by lhurlbut on November 1, 2006 at 10:05 PM

Further to Alexander's comments about Pruitt. I am a big fan of Coach Weber, but I think he made a mistake favoring the upperclassman Nick Smith over Pruitt in 2005. If Weber had given those minutes to Pruitt rather than Smith, it would have been better for the program and Shaun might be preseason all Big Ten this year. Plus, although I am sure as a freshman in 2005, Pruitt would have struggled against the big man from OSU and May from N.C, I think he would have been a more successful post backup than Smith, and who knows....

Posted by lhurlbut on November 1, 2006 at 10:33 PM

Loren, I agree. If we cannot consistently get top 25 High School talent, like the Dukes and Carolinas of the college basketball world, this is the only way to level the playing field. A player who has been in the system for 5 years will without doubt perform better. An extra year of maturity, less academic load, and a better understanding of the game do add up to more Illini wins.

Posted by dking on November 2, 2006 at 10:32 AM

Get that Cornell guy Mr. Zook!

Posted by dallen on November 2, 2006 at 2:09 PM

The sad part is that the Douglas Farm was there for over a hundred years...there are people who have lived across from that farm for 50 years....the LaSalle factors which where not followed by the City of Urbana..clearly guarantee that no development shall decrease or lessen the value of someone's property. The people who live across the street from where Meijer is building have a reasonable expectation that their lives will not be disrupted or diminished.

The City gave concessions to Meijer that it did not offer to existing businesses who had been contributing sales tax and real estate taxes for years and years. People who are already residents have some right to protection by the the city they inhabit. It is clear that Meijer certainly has a right to build a store but the sneaky and underhanded way in which it was done was just plain wrong. I hope they do well and help the City realize lots of tax revenue but if some existing business goes out because of it ...hasn't the City of Urbana then shirked its responsibility? I hope the neighbors who lived there long before Meijer came...neighbors who lived there because it was peaceful and serene don't have their lives intruded upon by noise and garbage and tasteless sprawl....

Posted by crdmike on November 3, 2006 at 1:44 AM

So let's get this straight, there is very specific formulas and means testing to determine if somebody receives assistance or not, it's not as though there is very much discretion. Thus your assertion that Ms. Abernathy has been more "generous" than Linda Cross is false and simply made up. Let's look at why such a difference exists today shall we?

My understanding of why there has been an increase in expenses is that more people who are in need (and probably were still in need when the prior township supervisor was in office) and meet the specific criteria for receiving assistance are now coming into the township offices for help (when previously they stayed away).

If you act mean and snarly and treat people disrespectfully, and have poor customer service and the public is intimidated when coming into your office that definitely would have a chilling effect on the number of people seeking help, now wouldn't it? But at least your numbers look good on paper!

Why doesn't this editorial mention one iota of information about how the office was run and what it was like before? Instead the analysis is limited to just what appears on a balance sheet and the behavioral or attitudinal components (which is likely the primary explanation for this occurrence) is completely ignored and what we see today is probably more of an accurate reflection of the level of need that had already existed in our community.

Nice to see the utter contempt that still exists in this community toward the needy.

Can't wait to see the next hypocritical editorial praising the multi-million dollar hand outs of tax dollars the city makes to wealthy developers who don't need it.

Posted by mattvarbl on November 3, 2006 at 1:25 PM

21 Big Ten wins since 1997? My goodness that's terrible. Even moreso when you consider that 7 of those wins came in one season. Yikes.

Posted by ralexander on November 4, 2006 at 2:00 PM

We lose another Rose to Memphis according to Suntimes

Posted by rwilliams on November 4, 2006 at 8:27 PM

It was a bad effort to get Rose...you got to do better!

Posted by dallen on November 5, 2006 at 4:25 PM

I am not a great fan for the Illini offensive coordinator...let Juice go deep more often...that is his strength and yet we seldom take advantage of his arm. come on...lossen up!!!

Posted by dallen on November 5, 2006 at 4:30 PM

I love it. I was mocked several weeks ago for saying here that this defense was improving. Kudos to them and the coaches.

Posted by jjohnson on November 5, 2006 at 4:32 PM

Thanks for the skinny, Paul. A player this emotionally needy has the potential to destroy team unity, which is Coach Weber's coaching strength. It will be interesting to see how DR impacts Memphis. Reggie's lack of shame in this admission shows his boorishness; DR could be difficult to suffer. 4 years of service from good players will have greater impact on our program than 1 year of service from a superbly talently neurotic.

Posted by mbeesley on November 5, 2006 at 8:33 PM

As I said when Rose announced he was coming to the O-B scrimmage, this was a charade from the beginning. The visit was nothing more than a self-serving attempt on the part of the Roses to deflect criticism they justifiably took for becoming Addidas prostitutes. Derrick was not coming here and he and his "advisor"/brother both knew it. They should be, but certainly won't be, ashamed. Also, I loved it when Derrick said his family told him, "The basketball will always be there. This is about my education." Hilarious.

Posted by dthonn on November 5, 2006 at 9:00 PM

bull. rr is a liar.

Posted by swatlas on November 5, 2006 at 11:09 PM

freakshow. weber should avoid the whole cpl.

Posted by swatlas on November 5, 2006 at 11:13 PM

The Rose's pointed out EXACTLY what the staff is doing wrong with recruiting. They cannot refuse to make promises to the recruits and give them the "work hard and you'll play" line. You have to tell these kids what they want to hear, or at least the program changing recruits. Reggie is absolutely right about that.

Posted by ralexander on November 6, 2006 at 12:23 AM

What a bunch of B.S. Everybody knows that the visit to UI was just a smoke screen to give the appearance that dilutes the arrangement of any shoe deal. It's a complete joke. Who needs that ego and vanity.

Posted by Frcook on November 6, 2006 at 5:52 AM

Loren, I have to chuckle. I heard some talk radio in Chicago wondering why the Bears don't use the shotgun. Somebody said the shotgun does not work with him offense. It takes me back to Turner's days as the Illini head man.

A question for you. What do you think will happen to Jeff Meyer and the video guy who was Gordon's AAU coach after he plays his year and moves on to the NBA? Will it be the next top recruit(s) significant decision-makers?

Posted by bbabcock on November 7, 2006 at 12:34 PM

So what, Obama bought some land adjacent to his own house to make his yard bigger. Rezko just happened to be the owner of the vacant parcel next door and Rezko also just happens to own a huge amount of real-estate in a bunch of the high end areas of the greater Chicago area (owns most of the Papa John's/Papa Tony's chain in Metro-Chicago as well) and this isn't something that should generate this level of attention from a presumably "informed" publication. There's only 6 degrees of separation and when dealing in high end residential and commercial real-estate the circle becomes much smaller.

Look at Champaign as an example and there's only a handful of well known people that own much of the "high end" property around town (it's just none of these folks have been indicted yet).

Keep grasping at straws, it just becomes more transparent, desperate, and laughable about how biased and non-objective the editorial is.

Posted by mattvarbl on November 8, 2006 at 12:18 PM

Hey, Loren,

Don't be so modest. Even dinosaurs deserve and get there place in history and a plaque on the wall! (LOL)

I cannot say enough how much I've personally appreciated your journalistic level headedness in matters related to Illin sports.

Even hearing your voice on the internet audio-casts brings some level of comfort. I don't know who else defines Illini basketball and footbal more that yourself and Jim Turpin.

Without question, Loren, you deserve a place alongside the greats of Illini past and present. regardless of however intellectually or internet-challenged you may feel.

Posted by Frcook on November 8, 2006 at 12:39 PM

Illinois needs an offensive coordinator that will allow Juice to throw deep...we need some imagination here Zook!

Posted by dallen on November 9, 2006 at 5:32 PM

"....think about a kid that is committed to another school. We don't do that." Really? So, just exactly who did recruit the "kid that is committed to another school?" Bob Knight? Myles Brand? Gordon's AAU coach/IU video coordinator? Gordon's Dad's college coach?

This clown is simply a disgrace. Only on January 23, 2007 will he understand the full impact of what he has wrought. I can't wait.

Posted by dthonn on November 9, 2006 at 7:46 PM

What about you, dallen?

Posted by dthonn on November 9, 2006 at 7:57 PM

I look forward to these last two games and can hardly wait for next fall

Posted by jjohnson on November 10, 2006 at 12:17 PM

I am troubled that we teach young men to do "what's best for them " as Mr. Gordon put it. Really? today people from all walks of life noddingly agree to this idea. Why is Bruce Weber's recruiting work of less value than Mr. Gordon's working to try to find the best situation for his son? I've not heard a word from Mr. Gordon about this. Instead, he's constantly repeating that one's own interest is all that counts. My Father implored me to consider others interests as more important than my own. I passed this on to my son. Isn't keeping your word of importance any more? Sampson, obviously, should have , after the first contact from Mr. Gordon, insisted upon Eric's decommitting before continuing the dialogue.

Posted by bmoore on November 10, 2006 at 1:21 PM

Good times are around the corner with these guys!

Posted by scarlson on November 10, 2006 at 2:29 PM

Everyone should also keep in mind that Juice has looked that much worse because of our inefficient receiving corps. Think how much his passing stats would jump if the receivers would stop dropping balls, or could even get open regularly.

That's why the commits of Benn and Morris are so exciting.

And let's get Juice a real QB coach to work with him one-on-one!

Posted by ralexander on November 10, 2006 at 2:48 PM

I agree with a new QB coach...let's get Juice going deep more often!!!

Posted by dallen on November 10, 2006 at 3:57 PM

How exciting. Both are great kids and great football players. Welcome to the Illini!

Posted by apagelee on November 10, 2006 at 4:04 PM

"If you commit, you commit." "Your job as a high school coach after they give their word is to make sure they honor their word." Hello, Eric? Eric's dad? Eric's high school coach? Anybody home?

Losers.

Posted by dthonn on November 10, 2006 at 10:13 PM

How many gift touchdowns will it take for whoever calls our plays to figure out that having "juice" throw out of the end zone isn't paying off???

Posted by bcorneille on November 12, 2006 at 11:52 AM

Thanks, Pierre, it was a pleasure watchin you!

Posted by rbarnes on November 12, 2006 at 12:14 PM

Let Juice go deep...get another offensive quaterback coach!

Posted by dallen on November 12, 2006 at 5:35 PM

The most underutilized RB in Illini history. If there is another, I would like the name. Thanks Pierre. I would take 85 of you.

Posted by mbeesley on November 12, 2006 at 9:48 PM

Paul,

I presume you are a trout fisherman and that you have fished the San Juan, Madison, Henry's Fork, Snake, Gallatin, et al. Sorry to inform you that there are no similar quality rivers around here, however South West WI has Castle Rock, Mount Vernon, Black Earth, Avalanche, etc. Also, North East IA has several good streams with year round fishing and the Taneycomo river, in Branson, MO has some of the largest Rainbows and Browns in the USA. When in Rockford, give me a call and I'll take you to a few spots.

Posted by mbeesley on November 13, 2006 at 2:00 PM

The fifth paragraph is patently wrong. With a litle research the autheor should have known that nearly 80 percent of those who would benefit from a raise in the minimum wage are adults, not teenagers. 54 percent are full-time workers, and 30 percent work between 20 and 34 hours per week. see http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage)

The fourth and fifth paragraphs also are old propaganda that was refute yeasr ago. (see: http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefacts)

Posted by CMalmgren on November 13, 2006 at 5:07 PM

I thought the real turning point was the (it seemed to me) incorrect pass interference call on Vonte Davis a few plays before Painter's run.

Posted by jjohnson on November 14, 2006 at 12:48 AM

Who will be the key recruits that will help this team next year?

Posted by dallen on November 15, 2006 at 1:20 PM

I'm frankly a little tired of hearing about this bad recruiting luck. The staff should just go out and find someone to sign. Try a little harder. And, how about a JC signing? Land the right JC kid and you'll be better for it.

Posted by vreato on November 15, 2006 at 2:25 PM

Butler is a well-coached team that could beat a few otherout Big Ten teams as well. The pointed comment about Indiana, may be a little uncharacteristic coming from another Big Ten coach, but Sampson and Indiana deserve each other, so they better get used to rough treatment this year especially when the Big Ten season starts.

Posted by kellytm on November 16, 2006 at 1:57 PM

After seeing Indiana play against Butler I can't understand why Gorden is going there! Stupid decision!

Posted by dallen on November 16, 2006 at 5:57 PM

That and President Bush appointing Robert Gates (with his involvement in Iran-contra) as Defense Secretary doesn't bode well for clean government. I am sure there are others we could find on both sides of the divide.

Murtha wasn't a bad choice for some reasons, but the dems voted someone else because they wanted someone else.

The Senate will get a chance to confirm or not as far as Gates.

Neither really matter as long as we all work together to make a strong America, showing the that our form of government is a positive force for both Americans and the world.

Posted by wmb on November 17, 2006 at 9:35 AM

Actually, all of the bad news began after Paul Klee was assigned the basketball beat. Hmmmm.

Posted by Woodswoman on November 17, 2006 at 6:22 PM

He's a great kid, far too humble and a born to be Illini through and through.

Go Illini!!!

Posted by hankguenther on November 18, 2006 at 10:17 AM

You make your own luck-at this point in the season the results of having Halsey return punts are no longer happenstance. As the Clint Eastwood character says " A man's gotta know his limitations!", as should football coaches.

Posted by bstouffer on November 19, 2006 at 1:23 PM

What a work horse. He should be all Big 10. Glad he will be leading the defense again next year.

Posted by bbabcock on November 20, 2006 at 1:00 PM

The old saying is you get what you pay for. Generally if you don't pay a good salary you won't get a good candidate. Look at how much money companies pay CEO's. The whole point is there is decent pay to attract top talent and the same philosophy should exist in the public sector.

Another example is how poor the compensation is for the Mayor of Champaign. It's basically a full time job that pays so low that it only attracts bottom of the barrel candidates, the independently wealthy, or retired people who don't have a family to support, thus the competent hard-working person generally isn't motivated to run for that office since it would involve an enormous financial sacrifice to do it.

It's time to rethink the whole "they're paid too much" argument about full time legislators and instead it should be top pay for top talent.

Posted by mattvarbl on November 20, 2006 at 1:48 PM

J Leman, we are proud of you! What a great inspiration for our kids.

Posted by apagelee on November 20, 2006 at 3:18 PM

Congratulations to all, and I am happy to see the recognition to Alan Ball, whose improvement was great to behold.

Posted by jjohnson on November 21, 2006 at 1:27 PM

Tony- Major college powers? Who? Illinois?

Posted by mbeesley on November 21, 2006 at 1:32 PM

I hate it when UI fans sound like Cub fans, but

wait till next year !

Posted by walker on November 21, 2006 at 1:37 PM

I am really proud of J Leman, as well as all of the others who were on the honorable mention list. It makes me proud to be an Illini fan that there was recognition for how hard they worked. Go Illini!

Posted by apagelee on November 21, 2006 at 4:22 PM

The 51 game streak is great, but only 8 of those

games have come against "name" teams (G'Town, Wake, UNC, Memphis, Ark, Gonzaga, Seton Hall and

K State) Basically, that's 43 cupcakes and/or

teams that were not on our level. It doesn't

prove a lot, but everybody else does similar

scheduling it seems.

Posted by walker on November 22, 2006 at 1:17 PM

Bob...USC on the road...did you forget Arkansas...who you tout as someone who should play for championship...and Notre Dame's road record...wow...Navy and Air Force...Check other objective statistical rating groups and see where Pac 10 is...Monaghan

Posted by Monaghan on November 22, 2006 at 2:00 PM

Say what you want but this Illinois team is better than I thought they would be...especially at the guard play....and when "the hurt" get healthy they could surprise a lot of people...and I think they will! Everybody (especially the media) stay positive because these kids are impressionable...be kind!

Posted by dallen on November 22, 2006 at 2:02 PM

It is an schedule that is appropraite for the kind of team they are trying to build right now...its building confindence into guys that will be coming off the bench later in the season. Cool it everybody and stay positive. Give Weber some credit here...

Posted by dallen on November 22, 2006 at 2:08 PM

Clearly Michigan and Ohio State are the best teams in the country where both of them are in the Big Ten...so watch the other leagues weep and cry about "it's not fair"! However let's get a better play off system...it is worse than NASCAR's and that's saying something!

Posted by dallen on November 22, 2006 at 2:14 PM

Don't let Ohio State take anybody out of Illinois...thatis ridiculous!

Posted by dallen on November 23, 2006 at 5:34 PM

> Why mess with that?

Because the majority of "volunteers" in the military volunteered to get money -- either for school through the GI bill, or because they came from economically disadvantaged families/areas. Our army is comprised of the fighting poor/lower-middle class. Remove the GI bill and increase the Pell Grant and other college tuition grants and you'd see a marked decrease in military recruitment.

On the other hand, those that comprise and control the two parties and legislature are middle-upper/upper class.

It should be a condition of anyone who's elected to serve in the legislature that can vote to send our sons and daughters to war that they must have a family member "volunteer" to serve for the duration of their tenure.

Our rationale for invasion would've been based on real world reasons had Jenna and Babs been front line Private Benjamins... not to mention stop-loss not used as often.

Posted by dw on November 24, 2006 at 7:03 PM

Great last paragraph Loren, and a belated Happy Birthday!

Posted by jeffh on November 26, 2006 at 1:48 PM

While I love my Illini and will be cheering for them, I fear from living in the Terps backyard that a win is at best 50-50. I tend to think the Terps are more experienced than the Illini and may outmatch the Illini man-to-man. Never-the-less, Go Illini! I will be pulling for them to prove my worst fears wrong!

Posted by pevans on November 27, 2006 at 12:20 PM

let's just hope that Duke crushes Indiana...

Posted by walker on November 27, 2006 at 12:55 PM

It's a cute little editorial story, with the small exception that it doesn't convey what you're talking about in an understandable manner. You've made it clear that you don't like what has happened, but you've done an incredibly lousy job describing the event or legislation. I don't know if you're limited by the amount of space you have in your paper, but I think this editorial could've been improved immensely by a bit of competent writing.

Posted by javajunkee on November 27, 2006 at 1:49 PM

During the ACC/Big Ten Challange I hope Dick Vitale recruits for the ILLINI as avid as he does for Duke and North Carolina every times hes on national Television!!!!!

GO ILLINI.

Posted by tjsneyd on November 27, 2006 at 3:50 PM

Illinois can't afford to loose ball players to Duke and Kansas...if they had those people...they would in the top 5 in the country!

Posted by dallen on November 27, 2006 at 4:20 PM

What is the streak anyway? This article says 38

games, Illini Board says 41, a newspaper report

in Decatur says 50??

Posted by walker on November 28, 2006 at 2:04 PM

Who are the recruits slated for this years crop, besides the Maryland kid, are they going to get that can have an immediate impact of this football team. Illinois should not be a pipeline to Iowa and Wisconsin etc...come people recruit!

Posted by dallen on November 28, 2006 at 2:38 PM

Come on Illinois...RECRUIT!!!

Posted by dallen on November 28, 2006 at 2:40 PM

I'm no UNC fan, but how can they drop 17 spots

by losing only once to #16 ?? (Florida loses

as well and only slips to #6) UNC should not be

any lower than say 8th or 9th.

Posted by walker on November 28, 2006 at 3:11 PM

Depends on which streak you're talking about - overall non-conference, or home-non-conference.

Overall non-conference goess back to the Providence loss in 2003.

Home-non-conference goes back to 1998.

Posted by ralexander on November 28, 2006 at 3:41 PM

Solid coaching by Weber, but face it there are a couple of players on the Kansas roster (from Illinois) that if they were wearing O&B we would have had a greater chance for a W. It gets back to recruiting (unfortunately).

Posted by scarlson on November 29, 2006 at 11:18 AM

It all goes back to recruiting, doesn't it? Maryland had better athletes because Williams is a better recruiter. We had better go out and get an athlete with that final scholarship we still have.

Posted by vreato on November 29, 2006 at 12:46 PM

Was it better athletes, a more senior laden team, or the fact that McBride, our senior played so poorly? Also, it would have certainly helped to have had our two best players available.

Posted by skarras on November 29, 2006 at 12:57 PM

You know what else would help? Better recruiting. Then maybe we won't have 3 scholarship guards, or only one wing. Better depth helps you weather injuries.

Posted by ralexander on November 29, 2006 at 1:40 PM

vreato, how many times have Williams "the better recruiter" and MD gone to the NCAA since 2002? Most simple-minded fans have picked-up the lazy sportswiters sloganism of "he can't recruit". By the way, sloganism is a substitute for thought.

From your perch, what trait is Weber missing that keeps him from being the recruiter that you think he should be? And if this trait is so obvious to you, does this mean that Weber, et al. are too stupid to figure this out?........steady laddie!

Many fans haven't played BB at a competitve level and don't understand the impact of a sprained ankle and toe (Chet) high ankle sprain (Smith) on the outcome of a game. Neither of them had explosiveness last night. These type of injuries have your undivided attention thoughout the game and they greatly effect one's shooting platform and defensive abilities.

Posted by mbeesley on November 29, 2006 at 1:57 PM

Well...one thing about Maryland, they didn't have any Illinois kids on their team but it takes a lot of grace to watch Duke and Kansas because they both have kids that got snatched right from under Weber's nose. Weber can coach with Self but can he keep the Wrights from going West. Come on people we can do better than this!

Posted by dallen on November 29, 2006 at 2:11 PM

dallen, What do you mean by "Come on people, we can do better than this!" Who is we? Are you referring to the Royal We?

There are 24 McDonald's All Americans (MAA)each year and there are approximately 120 Division I schools. That's 1 MAA for every 5 schools.

What didn't Weber say or do to convince J. Scheyer not to fullfill his childhood dream (as a 5 yr. old)to play for Duke? Perhaps you know the magic words and if so, please share them with Weber. Perhaps you know of a sales methodology that Weber is willfully refusing to employ, if so, please share it with Weber and all Illini fans so that we too may learn at your feet.

You make it sound as though you were personally involved in the recruiting meetings of Duke, Kansas and Illini and observed Weber failings due to neglect, attitude, lack of charm and winning ways.

Please share with the Illini Nation what the other schools did that Weber failed to do.

You make it appear that the athletes in question have a moral obligation to put the State School's interest before their own; that recruiting Illinois kids is a fait acompli, all that has to be done is to ask. Unless you can point to specifics, shut your pie hole.

Posted by mbeesley on November 29, 2006 at 2:43 PM

good: frazier, j.smith, and randle all injured.

bad: same ol' rich mcbride.

Posted by rbromestick on November 29, 2006 at 2:44 PM

Let's not make this guy out to be the next great guard at Illinois. He is not the greatest athlete, and the last time I checked a guard missing 6 out 7 shots does mean something.

Posted by rbromestick on November 29, 2006 at 2:56 PM

why is the illinois coaching staff bringing players back from injury before they are healed? Brian Randle obviously was not healed and they needlessly brought him back against an inferior opponent- he was injured and needed surgery, and now it appears that they brought J. Smith back too soon.

Posted by rbromestick on November 29, 2006 at 3:00 PM

I'll take my chances with Weber and a bunch of

3 star recruits that play hard and stay for four

years.

Posted by walker on November 29, 2006 at 4:24 PM

I'm with walker and mbeesley (despite his lack of appreciation for Ron Zook). Illinois got off to a hellacious start, and then controlled the game and, less two attrocious passes beneath the Md basket late in the 2nd half, would have won. It hurts, but I also felt reassured given that this team had such a pansy schedule until this past weekend

Posted by jjohnson on November 29, 2006 at 5:10 PM

"saucy"?

Posted by bdweav71 on November 29, 2006 at 8:22 PM

Who is the player that the Illihois is currently recruiting that will make an immediate impact on the team next year? You can't win ball players without talent and Weber didn't have enough talent against Maryland...which was pretty clear and simple!

Posted by dallen on November 30, 2006 at 3:20 PM

Agree with dallen 100%. We need MORE talent, it is that simple.

Posted by scarlson on November 30, 2006 at 6:26 PM

Thanks for your loyal work Jim !

Posted by scarlson on November 30, 2006 at 6:27 PM

maybe we need less injured starters to beat good teams? ya think?

Posted by swatlas on November 30, 2006 at 11:25 PM

Please post dallen's and scarlson's comments in the Illini locker room -- that should help fire them up.

Posted by jjohnson on December 1, 2006 at 10:16 AM

Jim did very well when he played this year; I wish him much success

Posted by jjohnson on December 1, 2006 at 10:17 AM

Great to see football recruiting on the upswing. Anytime you are competing with Ohio State and Wisconsin for an athlete as opposed to Ball State and Eastern Illinois, you know the program is making strides.

Posted by kellytm on December 1, 2006 at 11:37 AM

Flowers is a quality deal but where is that running back for short yardage situations?

Posted by dallen on December 1, 2006 at 12:17 PM

Coaching can only do so much when talent is lacking. There is no one player to rely on and that won't change when Smith or Randle return. Unfortunately, losing recruiting prospects will impact the level of talent even more next year, so making a deep run in the tournament seems out of the question for the near future.

Posted by kellytm on December 1, 2006 at 12:23 PM

At least Arizona has no one from Illinois!

Posted by dallen on December 1, 2006 at 12:23 PM

Here, here kelly.

Posted by ralexander on December 1, 2006 at 1:18 PM

did he have an actual scholarship offer from

OSU & Wisc. or this to say he just prefered us

over them if he had the choice??

Posted by walker on December 1, 2006 at 2:46 PM

The good news is that other than Ohio St, nobody

else is getting that far ahead of us talent wise

or recruiting wise, when you figure that Gordon

will be one and done.

Posted by walker on December 1, 2006 at 3:52 PM

Signing day is not for another 2 months so I think there is plenty of time to land "that" running back.

Posted by jjrepp on December 1, 2006 at 6:29 PM

GO get em Zook !!!!

Posted by scarlson on December 1, 2006 at 10:51 PM

Monson lost his job for two simple reasons. He did not land the top in-state talent, and he did not win. Clearly, doing things the right way is not enough. Winning has become an increasingly important factor in how Universities are preceived nationwide, regardless of their academic and research acclaim. Big games, which do influence University perception, cannot be consistently won with second tier talent. This is why Weber will not last at Illinois and Self would have. Kansas knows the score, thus Bill's $1.3 million per extension. Monson will be replaced by Flip Saunders from the Dtroit Pistons. He is a local boy and former Timberwolves coach. His dream job has become available.

Posted by dking on December 2, 2006 at 9:33 AM

We are a mid major level team that will be unable to compete with the Dukes and Arizonas of college basketball. Weber was promoted one level beyond his capacity. Yes, he can coach, but he cannot recruit. It takes both to succeed when you are swimming in such rough waters.

Posted by dking on December 2, 2006 at 9:46 AM

This was the worst display of officating, if thats what you want to call it I have ever seen.

Posted by tjsneyd on December 3, 2006 at 2:24 PM

You didn't think it was lopsided but I did and I was four rows behind Illinois' bench! Illinois was whisled for 9 fouls to 2 for Az. after the Illini started off the second half with some quick points. The first half was much different than the second half Officiating wise! The refs took the Illini right out of the game!

Posted by wwatts on December 3, 2006 at 4:09 PM

Yea, Look at how many times did Arizona went to the line comparecd to Illinois. Refs make to many mistakes and I want more tech stuff to make sure calls are correct...refs make too many bad calls!

Posted by dallen on December 3, 2006 at 6:59 PM

No, Bobby, we do not need a playoff.

Posted by jjohnson on December 4, 2006 at 12:56 PM

Yes, we do need a playoff. Why can't I-A football follow the I-AA example? One reason only: $$

Posted by dgcrow on December 4, 2006 at 1:09 PM

Florida won a title in arguably the nation's best conference and won more games than michigan, which lost it's last game. Michigan had its shot. You can't compare scores. Florida deserves the shot.

Posted by vreato on December 4, 2006 at 1:15 PM

Michigan had its shot & lost to Ohio State. If you give Michigan a second chance & they win now what? Do we play best two out of three? Florida

deserves the chance even though I don't like Urban Meyers tactics.

Posted by tyerkey on December 4, 2006 at 1:25 PM

Kenneth Hyten...you want to switch Juice to another position?! Remember Smith with OSU was with the special teams his Freshman year...Juice is way beyond that but I agree with Greg Lomax and bring back some of those former quarterbacks who could throw various kind of balls as to speed and softness...good idea. Is there any new recruits that will have an immediate impact on Illinois next year?

Posted by dallen on December 4, 2006 at 2:11 PM

ESPN needs to move out of the south! They are just prejudiced against having two Big Ten Schools in the Championship Game. Michigan got a raw deal and it will be hard for them to get up for USC. In both of these games Florida and USC will be like the home team...when is that going to change? Why couldn't they play some those games in the north someplace where there is a dome?

Posted by dallen on December 4, 2006 at 2:25 PM

Michigan should be playing in the championship, but at least they will be playing in the most watchable bowl game. The BCS matchups stink this year and Vegas agrees. The Rose Bowl is only game predicted to be close with Mich 1.5 over USC. OSU 8 over Flor. LSU 9 over ND. OK 9 over Boise.

Posted by lhurlbut on December 4, 2006 at 3:43 PM

If you don't like the system, don't watch the games.

The money comes from advertising. If people don't watch, advertising isn't there, sponsors pull out, and we'll have a playoff faster than you think.

Posted by ralexander on December 4, 2006 at 4:03 PM

Diehl may have been flagged for a false start, but was also praised endlessly by the Fox announcers for his athleticism and blocking.

Watch the games, not the box scores.

Posted by ralexander on December 4, 2006 at 4:05 PM

weber's gonna have to start paying for some talent. We can't win with these guys. They won't come if he don't pay.

Posted by rmitchell on December 4, 2006 at 7:57 PM

Duke Preston is now returning kicks??? ;-)

Posted by rbarnes on December 5, 2006 at 12:05 PM

As for Michigan, I have to admit that 35 years of being an Illini and watching the U of M's antics has made me an "ABM". Anyone but Michigan.

Posted by Acunningham on December 5, 2006 at 1:53 PM

So, are we supposed to praise the referees for calling seven fouls on us in the first 4 1/2 minutes of the second half and driving the two players AZ had no answer for, Carter and Pruitt, to the bench while they went into the bonus for the remainder of the game? Or the 28-12 foul disparity? Or the 35-9 free throw disparity?

Not sure what your problem is with pointing this out. If you think all of the above is fine then I am unimpressed with you.

Posted by dthonn on December 5, 2006 at 2:25 PM

Paul, with the greatest respect, you weren't here when a few years back, when, following a regular season United Center victory over AZ, Olsen complained loud and long about how physical the Illini were. And when we met them again in the NCAA tourney, we had 6 players foul out, and were called for 57 or so fouls during the game -- both, I believe, NCAA tournament game records.

Because of that history, Illini fans -- including me -- are sensitive the sort of disparity we saw on Saturday. I believe Loren even noted that Olsen is one of the most accomplished "referee baiters" around.

I've enjoyed reading your stories, and look forward to continuing to do so, but I think you could've worded this differently in the circumstances.

Posted by jeffh on December 5, 2006 at 3:00 PM

Or, how difficult would it be to have Michigan and Florida play THIS weekend, on a netural site, to determine who plays Ohio State in a month?

Posted by ralexander on December 5, 2006 at 3:42 PM

What I would really like to see is a Michigan - Florida bowl game. Does anyone seriously doubt Michigan would win by 20+ points? Meyer is an embarassment to college football.

Posted by cdwatson on December 5, 2006 at 6:02 PM

Loren

You are too nice on Michigan.

Posted by scarlson on December 5, 2006 at 6:37 PM

Loren

You are too nice on Michigan.

Posted by scarlson on December 5, 2006 at 6:37 PM

Carr and Michigan are their own worse enemies. He picks his talent every year yet does not take that talent to the ultimate in most years. Carr's team gave up 42 points to Ohio State. True, Ohio State gave up 39. But, that is a lot of points considering they were looking for #1 or #2. Believe me, I am with Zook. Florida is etter coached, and it has Zook's talent.

Unfortanately I remember when Carr was a member of Moeller's Illini staff. I have had a problem giving him a lot of regard as a result of their poor performance.

Posted by bbabcock on December 5, 2006 at 9:18 PM

He looks soft to me.

Posted by vreato on December 6, 2006 at 12:30 PM

Sounds like a good kid to have on our team. I hope he's feeling better soon...

Posted by aratnakar on December 6, 2006 at 1:53 PM

Very well said Loren, "he is what he is"; and what he is is a spot up 3 point shooter, and a decent defender, nothing more, nothing lessl Lets all stop expecting too much from him, then we won't be disappointed.

Posted by rbromestick on December 6, 2006 at 3:32 PM

Because it's so easy to tell he looks soft based on 4 games and limited minutes. Brilliant observation.

Posted by ralexander on December 6, 2006 at 3:40 PM

I am concerned about S. aureus infection of the chest wall following this kind of trauma- The staph circulating in the USA at present is causing more and more infection following such injuries.

Posted by lross on December 6, 2006 at 4:56 PM

It took four years to realize this about McBride? Come on, the DUI this year should have been the last straw..no leader puts himself in that situation going into his senior year.

Posted by mpryor on December 6, 2006 at 5:21 PM

McBride should not start when everybody gets healthy! Are we recruiting anybody that can be an impact player next year?

Posted by dallen on December 6, 2006 at 7:16 PM

How do you grade this crew?

Posted by dallen on December 6, 2006 at 7:21 PM

Dear News-Gazette,

Would you please forward a copy of Mr.Tate's article on Rich McBride in yesterday's edition? I was about to read it when it was removed from my e-mail subscription menu.

Thank-you

Dave Johnson

djohnson@arborresearch.com

Posted by djohnson on December 7, 2006 at 12:30 PM

glad to see that chief iwek is not the only one getting the boot next year

Posted by rmitchell on December 10, 2006 at 11:44 AM

No to play-offs; no to the BCS as it exists. I loved the Pac-10, big Ten set-up

Posted by jjohnson on December 10, 2006 at 8:35 PM

They can put all the spin on it they want, but it's still a shame that the students are being relegated to the end zone. Lousy seats, no matter what they say. The students should be allowed to sit on the sidelines behind the Illini bench.

Posted by dgcrow on December 10, 2006 at 9:46 PM

I think that all Illini fans should be unbelievably thankful and give a rousing round of applause to LOREN TATE for his lifetime achievement award which you informed the readers of in this article. I have been reading Loren's articles since for what seems like an epoch, but in reality has only been forty years or so. If there is any one---anywhere that has done more to give us fans the best, most complete information---good or bad, about the Illini in the past forty years, I would like to meet him or her. Congratulations Loren. Awesome job. Thank you!!!

Jim Morris

Posted by guitaraxe1 on December 11, 2006 at 6:22 AM

Let's see:

Front court = "C";

Back court = "B";

Bench = "B";

Overall = "C-".

You must have given low grades to our coaching staff or the UC crowd to have reduced our team mark to C-...

Posted by bvandermeulen on December 11, 2006 at 3:56 PM

Let's not give Ohio St. the title so easily. Sure

Odom is the real thing, but they still have a lot

of prima donnas that will have to find their team

chemistry.

Posted by walker on December 13, 2006 at 12:54 PM

Loren,

Thanks for a great recap of Knight's history and a trip for me down memory lane.

I once heard a story that when the IUB president's office staff knew he was on his way to speak to the president, they all hid out in an out-of-way conference room.

Posted by bbabcock on December 14, 2006 at 12:02 PM

Just a great summation Loren, and the points you make arer not heard often enough. It was fitting moment to break the 20+ year prohibition on mentioning his name in your column.

I have given copies of your Sept. 11, 2001 column to blase New Yorkers (where I now live and work) to show them the best example of Midwestern basketball passion I've ever seen. I'll now be showing them this one too.

Keep up the great work!

Posted by jeffh on December 14, 2006 at 1:06 PM

Tate obviously didn't see Robert "The General" Knight's eulogy of Curt Gowdy on HBO's "Costas Now". I bet he didn't interview Landon Turner for this article, either. Knight is as fierce defending his friends as he is kicking his enemies asses.

ps In the game of national championships, its Knight 3, Illinois 0

Posted by rmitchell on December 14, 2006 at 4:41 PM

hey rmitchell, stay on the Indiana websites.... you must be an admirer of the Eric Gordon family..

Posted by scarlson on December 14, 2006 at 5:18 PM

LBT:

Thanks!!! We needed that!

I might have missed it ... but, will the N-G soon have something similar about "Bo?" Some of us hope that it won't take 20 years or so to do that one!!!

If that's what it takes, may you be the one to let me know.

Merry Christmas!!!!

Posted by hsmith on December 14, 2006 at 8:46 PM

rmitchell, wtf does Knight's eulogy of Curt Gowdy have to do with anything? You need to wise up, boy. Knight is a puke, plain and simple.

ps In the game of life, it's (don't forget the apostrophe next time, genius) Illinois 100,000,000, Knight 0.

Have a nice day.

Posted by dthonn on December 15, 2006 at 12:35 AM

Why aren't these awards presented by the coach of the states' premier college team, e.g., Ron Zook?

or is it rotated, but hopefully among the state school coaches?

Posted by palco on December 16, 2006 at 1:30 PM

rmitchell, it's pretty sad when someone actually subscribes to a rival's daily newspaper's online sportspage so he/she can post garbage like this on it -- especially an article by someone like Loren. Although to you it's either Mr. Tate or Coach Tate -- sound familiar? And yes, Loren was a high school coach earlier in his career.

Please go back to whichever Indiana forum you came you came from and stay away from where you're not wanted.

Posted by jeffh on December 18, 2006 at 12:34 PM

Is Mike Cole related to Bill Cole (Illinois signee)?

Posted by msherman on December 18, 2006 at 12:36 PM

Good coach, but can he recruit? You have to do both to be sucessful. I have not been very impressed with the people he has brought in or signed since he has been coach.

Posted by rbromestick on December 18, 2006 at 3:01 PM

I agree w/broomstick. The weak Illinois schedule sure helped to build the 10-2 record.

Posted by rmitchell on December 18, 2006 at 3:37 PM

Reading is fundamental:

"Weber is betting that Cole will develop along similar lines to his father, who played defensive end for the Illini."

Posted by ralexander on December 18, 2006 at 4:19 PM

You want a playoff?

Don't watch the bowl games. No viewers = no advertising = no television = no revenus = no BCS.

Posted by ralexander on December 18, 2006 at 6:27 PM

It was presented by Zook, last year. Weis this year.

The guest speaker doesn't have anythind to do with the state - Lemming brings in national speakers.

Posted by ralexander on December 18, 2006 at 6:46 PM

I think you recruiting doomsayers need to take a deep breath and exhale. You seem to imply that McCamey, Tisdale, and Cole nothing but mincemeat. Remember there is no "I" in "Team".

Case in point, Deron Williams was not a top 50 player. Were Augustine, Ingram, and Head McDonalds All-Americans? McCamey is at least as highly rated.

Were you excited when McBride signed? He was a McDonalds All-American. How about Carter? Was he that highly rated when Self brought him in?

What about Randle? I recognize he has been hurt, but you certainly don't think he is mincemeat, do you?

Remember Lon Kruger. He was the one who brought in Archibald and Krupalija as opposed to the the guys like Richardson and Maggette who were more highly rated that went to DePaul and Duke. We did pretty well during that time with Gee, Heldman, Turner, B. Johnson, and Hester. Any of these guys McDonalds All-Americans?

Have a little faith in the guy who can really coach them up is a pretty good evaluator of talent.

Posted by bbabcock on December 18, 2006 at 8:28 PM

Remember that Wisconsin and Northwestern win with guys I have never heard of...so it is a balance between recruiting and coaching the x and o's. Come on Coach, I am pulling for you!!

Posted by dallen on December 18, 2006 at 10:03 PM

Rewrite: U.S. Rep. Mark Foley, the PEDOPHILIC congressman who sent sexually explicit text messages to underage male pages.

It isn't the fact that he's gay that was problematic -- it's the fact that he sexually harassed children while at the same time campaigning for stricter rules to prevent exactly what he was doing.

Furthermore, we see the NG editorial board once again taking a Republican gaffe and using it to negatively paint the Democrats because they didn't fix it good enough -- if it was an evenly divided committee, why are there no quotes from the Republicans?

Posted by dw on December 19, 2006 at 11:07 PM

How serious is Warren Carter's injury?

Posted by rpace on December 20, 2006 at 4:03 PM

chester is the heart and soul of the team---what a warrior!

Posted by rpace on December 22, 2006 at 5:32 PM

I agree there is something special about this Frazier...let's get two more just like him from Baltimore! Go Weber!

Posted by dallen on December 22, 2006 at 11:51 PM

the MVP of the team, by far

Posted by swatlas on December 23, 2006 at 12:07 AM

I just hope there will some talent there waiting for him to have as team mates. It is a great recruiting chip to say the least! Go Weber!

Posted by dallen on December 24, 2006 at 5:47 PM

I'm a bit confused. How can a freshmen commit orally to a school, when by NCAA rules, schools can not contact students until after their sophmore year? If they have not contacted him, how does he know they want him?

Posted by rbromestick on December 26, 2006 at 8:10 AM

Maybe Ron & Bruce can make a deal that would

allow Bruce to help with special team coaching

and Ron to pay him back by making home visits

to key basketball recruits.

Posted by walker on December 26, 2006 at 1:02 PM

recommit? did i miss an episode?

Posted by Tpolansek on December 26, 2006 at 4:10 PM

These recruits are great but where is the punter that is not going to negate the efforts of all this highly regarded talent?

Posted by bstouffer on December 28, 2006 at 7:00 AM

Backward thinking. Maybe we could also stop using telephones all together and just write letters. There are many proceedings such as criminal arraignments where the person actually appears in front of a judge virtuially from jail via a video monitor. That's a legal proceeding occurring without being physically present.

Posted by mattvarbl on December 28, 2006 at 9:23 AM

regardless of the injury, I don't think Randle will ever live up to his potential. A healthy Brian Randle, with his experience, should be much more consistent offensively than he showed last year. Realistically, if Illinois considers itself a contender in the Big Ten, Randle needs to average 14-15 points per game.I know he plays great defense, but the Illini need more production offensively that doesn't involve launching a barrage of 3 point shots.

Posted by kellytm on December 28, 2006 at 2:17 PM

More Brock, less McBride. Rich and his "houdini" act where he disappears for stretches of the game is no longer acceptable. Brock has earned more minutes, and plays much more agressively than McBride.

Posted by kellytm on December 28, 2006 at 2:29 PM

C'mon Paul...if it's going to be a one point

game, give Illinois the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by walker on December 29, 2006 at 1:25 PM

This game on the road where Illinois at Xavier is the most defining moment and game of the year. If they win this game...the go to the Big Dance. If they loose...they don't!

Posted by dallen on December 29, 2006 at 4:25 PM

There is no Williams or Dee at the point guard...and if Weber continues to loose the recruiting battle...if these trends continue...Illinois is doomed to be "also-rans"!They simply looked "lost" against Xavier!!!

Posted by dallen on December 30, 2006 at 5:25 PM

There is no Williams or Dee at the point guard...and if Weber continues to loose the recruiting battle...if these trends continue...Illinois is doomed to be "also-rans"!They simply looked "lost" against Xavier!!!

Posted by dallen on December 30, 2006 at 6:50 PM

just based on the player commentary from klee's column and coach weber's description of the team's response to his direction, this team has NIT written all over it. There isn't a player on this year's team that could start for 2005 final four team. Amazing how quickly the momentum has evaporated from Illini basketball.

Posted by kellytm on December 30, 2006 at 11:10 PM

Be a little more patient, Loren. I hope for six wins and it is doable, but 5 would be an achievement after these last three years

Posted by jjohnson on December 31, 2006 at 2:38 PM

Good post kellytm. This program has been totally deflated from the FF run. Amazing how good coaches look when they have good players.

Posted by mpryor on December 31, 2006 at 2:51 PM

lets face it, recruiting ability is the #1 key

to a successful program, and we obviously have

one of the best in the nation. Just think what

Zook might do after a winning season !

Posted by walker on December 31, 2006 at 6:42 PM

It was a great tournament. So glad I was able to be there. Great group of guys and they did very well.

Posted by mkennedy on December 31, 2006 at 7:57 PM

"But they pose a greater long-term threat to society if they continue on their self-destructive paths, and the schools have an obligation to try to turn them around."

Ummm...this from the News Gazette who's mantra over and over talks about the Nanny State and pounds its fists on the Neanderthal conservative table of personal responsibility and the Laissez-faire approach to everything?(i.e. the government can't tell us what to do!!)

Now all of the sudden it's the School's responsibility to turn kids around on top of providing a basic education? I'm all for that concept, but the hypocrisy present here in this editorial and lack of consistency in argument from this newspaper is the real issue.

Why don't you just "let the market decide" (the self prescribed conservative magic solution to everything) on who should be receiving and education and who shouldn't? Why should we be concerned about the long term effects of second hand smo...I mean the long term effects of somebody who refuses to go to school?

Posted by mattvarbl on January 2, 2007 at 10:02 AM

Who has Weber recruited that could take them to the Final Four? If Self, the Duke Caoch and Weber are all sitting in the same room...where would you send your son?

Posted by dallen on January 2, 2007 at 2:09 PM

RE dallen

That's easy, Illinois!!!

Posted by Hoot on January 2, 2007 at 2:22 PM

NIT....wow! Less than 2 years from playing in the National Championship game and now we're NIT bound (maybe). That's a huge slip!

Posted by jhelms on January 2, 2007 at 2:39 PM

Have you predicted the Illini's Final Big Ten record?

Posted by bfarley on January 2, 2007 at 5:20 PM

Re: D. Allen

It depends on whether you want your coached up or not and an environment to get home skills and mental toughness. Chances are that won't happen if he chooses Self. Coach K. hasn't had any experience coaching anyone but McDonalds All-Americans. If your son chose Coach K., he better have been one of those top five recruits.

Posted by bbabcock on January 2, 2007 at 6:35 PM

More often than not, Illini will lose a player to Duke. Kansas-it won't happen much longer.

Posted by gnelson on January 2, 2007 at 10:00 PM

I didn't get to hear Jim in person, since I no longer live in the area, but I've always enjoyed hearing him on TV, internet and XM radio. His "that's only the 3rd team foul on the Badgers this half" will always be one of my favorite calls by a PA announcer.

I'd say -- Thanks for some great work, Jim -- you'll be missed!

Posted by jeffh on January 3, 2007 at 12:46 PM

I've always thought Jim Shepperd did a fantastic job. What could be the reason for a change? He has a great voice and you can immediately recognize that it's a game at Illinois when you hear his voice. Change is usually for the best, but I'm questioning this one.

Posted by vreato on January 3, 2007 at 2:10 PM

At great risk, I repeat myself. I'm an ABM. "Anyone but Michigan".

Posted by Acunningham on January 3, 2007 at 7:31 PM

That's right! Fire Jim, keep Grentz.

Posted by mbeesley on January 3, 2007 at 10:17 PM

It appears Illini are in for a long struggle .Not one incomming recruite in the top 100, all are projects. Does not look good for years to come!

Posted by dkrus on January 3, 2007 at 10:58 PM

NIT NIT....maybe

Posted by rmitchell on January 4, 2007 at 1:42 PM

The point is that the last two years Self recruits carried the load...Weber was unable to recruit any real help the last two years to give some leadership to replace the 5 guys in the NBA now. Passion is not the real problem...talented players is the real problem and Weber must be held accountable for that void of players with the skills to win.

Posted by dallen on January 4, 2007 at 1:54 PM

Why is Illinois uninspired? Why no passion? That is a team thing...a coaching thing...it is all so humilating when we were sitting on top of the heap just two years ago. With that as a bargaining chip... why were we not able to attrack and recruit some blue chip players...especially from the state of Illinois!!!!Unbelieveable!!!

Posted by dallen on January 4, 2007 at 1:59 PM

I believe we will do C and D above. Worst case,

we go 8-8 in the conference and win one game in the Big 10 tournament and we're in the dance. I'm

still confident in spite of last night. (I don't

know if we will ever do A or B this year)

Posted by walker on January 4, 2007 at 3:13 PM

well said dallen

Posted by Hoot on January 4, 2007 at 3:13 PM

I'd just like to know why when you have a starting 5 who hadn't lost a game( and yes I know had things not happen they wouldn't have been the starting 5) is changed. Maybe we should go back to them and see if they cant get something jump started. would give us tons of tallent coming off the bench if nothing else

Posted by bmorphy on January 4, 2007 at 3:17 PM

Good comment...No defense, Little offense...

Why can't Pruitt ever kick the ball back out. I

wonder if he might ever get an assist?

Posted by walker on January 4, 2007 at 3:22 PM

Maybe Zook can recruit for us when he gets some

extra time? Why can't S.P. develop something other

than his same 'ole go left move that is way to

predictable?

Posted by walker on January 4, 2007 at 3:36 PM

I totally agree with Dallen!

Posted by ccherry on January 4, 2007 at 3:48 PM

Let's at least play 3-4 games in the Big Ten before we panic.

Posted by bfarley on January 4, 2007 at 5:25 PM

Coach Weber needs to consider "leading his team", which is made up of players, coaching staff, and other assitants and not "driving" his young men, who have never been here before. I see no "fun or enjoyment of playing" by the players at this time. Also, I see no positive sides to demeaning players through the news media. Attitude has more to do with "winning" at any team endeavor than talent, if the talent level is reasonably close.

Posted by rscrimager on January 4, 2007 at 5:55 PM

No way this team can beat Ohio State even if all OSU players have to shoot every shot with their off-hand and all Illini were healthy. Weber is faced with every coach's worst fears-lack of team athletic ability, intelligence and desire.

-"Man's gotta know his limitations!"

-Dirty Harry

Posted by bstouffer on January 4, 2007 at 7:01 PM

a win against osu will quiet all

of you .

Posted by jlacava on January 4, 2007 at 8:14 PM

McBride is not going to be a regular main contributor and suffers on defense....If Brian Randle is healthy he needs to start making a much larger contribution starting Saturday...and Pruitt should want to play the game of his life to show all doubters Saturday ....and yes...the next recruiting period will make or break Bruce's tenure at Illinois

Posted by FearTheChief on January 4, 2007 at 9:54 PM

Looks real bad for years to come !

Posted by dkrus on January 4, 2007 at 11:30 PM

Won't be hard to get a ticket next year & the years ahead!

Posted by dkrus on January 4, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Do we have one top 100 recruit comming ! Please don't put SIU on for several years it won't be good.

Posted by dkrus on January 4, 2007 at 11:44 PM

With out question, I believe that Bruce Webber technically is a much better coach than Bill Self.I do not believe that Self would have made it to the final four with the players he left at Illinois. Nor do I believe that all five of those players would be in the NBA today. Credit can be given to Bruce Webber for those accomplishments. Roy Williams left a Self a stable full of Top 50 High school players and he was not able to do much with them. I think he went out of the NCAA tournament in the first round in his first year and failed to reach the final 16 in his second year. He consistently recurits top 25 players and consistently fails to to much in the NCAA tournament. With all that said, I believe, with certainty, that excellent talent will often triumph of mediocre coaching but excellent coaching seldom triumphs over mediocre talent. With Webber's current players and recruits coming in I think we have seen the end of top 25 rankings for a while to come.

Posted by jarmstrong on January 5, 2007 at 8:15 AM

I know the NBA and all pro sports are "businesses," and all that, but I still think this is a lousy thing to do to a nice guy for the sake of $240,000 -- pocket change in the NBA.

Good luck to Roger -- I know he'll do fine, whether in basketball or not.

Posted by jeffh on January 5, 2007 at 12:31 PM

So glad that Mike Locksley is demonstrating what is becoming increasingly scarce in college coaching: loyalty. (Right, Bill Self and Dennis Erickson?)

Posted by dgcrow on January 5, 2007 at 2:18 PM

Roger will be blessed no matter where he goes and the team that gives him a chance will surprise a lot of people just as Utah. He is one of those intangibles that brings so much to a team spiritually...look for Utah to break its stride now and play just so-so basketball.

Posted by dallen on January 6, 2007 at 12:57 AM

Why can't Weber recruit like Zook is doing...come on people let's get some Illinois kids to stay home!

Posted by dallen on January 6, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Don't let Robert Hughes leave the state!!!!PLEASE!!!

Posted by dallen on January 6, 2007 at 1:06 AM

if this means we can get a new offensive coordinator and keep benn, i vote yes

Posted by plogli on January 6, 2007 at 2:03 AM

Bruce needs to stop screaming constantly throughout every game and use some of that energy on the recruiting trail....Illinois needed to capitalize on the energy generated by the recent success and use it as a springboard to building a solid program for years to come....wont mention the schools but we all know who some of them are....and right now it looks like we will fade quickly to middle of the pack again....time to step it up !

Posted by FearTheChief on January 6, 2007 at 7:15 AM

I was at the Rolling Stones concert in the Assembly Hall....the opening act was not B.B. King....it was Ike and Tina Turner...unless they played the Hall twice!

Posted by lewicki on January 6, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Just don't pull a Weber and let Hughes go out of state to school...enough of that nonsense!

Posted by dallen on January 6, 2007 at 6:38 PM

It is simple in two years Thad recruited five aoutstanding players; Weber hasn't brought in one of that stature. Couldn't Illinois Ad read this before they hired him that he has not been blessed a smooth personality of a Self or Thad. How is he going to recruit now. So much is gone and the program is in real deep trouble. What a disappointment.

Posted by dallen on January 7, 2007 at 5:12 PM

The season has just begun.

No need to panic.

We have good talent, a great coach,

and the best fans .Things will improve

real fast.

Posted by jlacava on January 7, 2007 at 5:43 PM

B.B King was indeed the opening act on the night in which the Stones played two shows and nobody will ever forget it. You must have seen them on a different date.

Posted by dthonn on January 8, 2007 at 2:34 PM

Where did he come from?

Posted by dallen on January 8, 2007 at 4:06 PM

How does that help Illinois now?

Posted by dallen on January 8, 2007 at 4:08 PM

That same argument about "qualifications" would to apply to most elected offices if you're going to use that lame argument. Maybe you could start with looking at "qualifications" of people running for city council and actually make an objective decision for once.

Since when did the News-Gazette seriously consider anyone's "qualifications" background or education before making an endorsement decision about a local race? Oh, that's right, only when it's a Democrat do we decide to scrutinize and complain.

Mr. Fabri also holds a law degree and is a highly educated person and is hardly the average Joe on the street in your attempted comparison.

It seems to me that the only "qualification" necessary is to be a Conservative Republican who is anti-everything in order to earn your newspaper's blessing.

Posted by mattvarbl on January 9, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Two of our three seniors finally showed up to play. It would be nice if Arnold could also help

the team once this year.

Posted by walker on January 11, 2007 at 1:43 PM

way to go Coach Weber and Illini=== Dwight Hollonbeck

Posted by dhollonbeck on January 11, 2007 at 3:58 PM

"what other politician with 49.79 percent of the vote would be so arrogant to claim 'a mandate for action?'"

I think our wonderful President had only a couple points higher (the second time around) and made similar statements. Perhaps Blago is emulating our nation's fine leader...

Posted by javajunkee on January 12, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Weber and company have not recreuited a blue chip athlete since Dee...and that is why we are in trouble!

Posted by dallen on January 12, 2007 at 1:17 PM

you've got a one track mind dallen. (Define blue

chip anyway) McCamey & Pruitt were both considered

4 star recruits, which is certainly "blue chip".

Besides, I'm certainly willing to wait and see a

while longer before I say we are "in trouble".

Maybe you should just become a Duke or Kansas fan

because Weber isn't going anywhere.

Posted by walker on January 12, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Uconn is loaded with blue chip athletes and they are in much worse shape then us Illini.

This team will get better every game.

keep the faith.

Posted by jlacava on January 12, 2007 at 4:45 PM

I am glad you are not our bb recruiting coordinator, dallen. If Dee Brown was the only blue chipper (whatever your definition is), wonder what you thought of Augustine, Head, Deron

and Roger Powell Jr? I agree Weber did not recruit these players as he was still at SIU. It is not where you are rated at as a recruit, it is how they develop in college, their work ethic, etc.

Go commisserate with Coach K. I am sure he could use your support now.

Posted by bbabcock on January 12, 2007 at 7:26 PM

dallen, if all you care about is recruiting blue chip athletes (that's the only thing you ever whine about on here) why don't you just become a Jayhawk fan and you'll get what you want. Oh, and a first round exit from the Tournament as well.

Have a nice day, loser.

Posted by dthonn on January 13, 2007 at 10:55 AM

what do you mean "Sampson probably didn't realize

this" Ethics are ethics no matter what league you

might have come from.

Posted by walker on January 13, 2007 at 3:50 PM

Of course Sampson "didn't realize this". A coach with no moral compass wouldn't.

Posted by dgcrow on January 13, 2007 at 8:26 PM

You have completely failed to mention two very important considerations. First, *not* providing universal health care is an expensive proposition. Healthier citizens cost less tax dollars, period. Second, doctors' pay is grossly disproportionate to the work they do, which is very, very different from teachers and police officers. It is ridiculous to the point of absurdity to try to lump them into the same analogy. The healthcare and prescription drug industries milk the insurance industry, which in turn milks the general public. The real issue, which you've failed to mention, is that by instituting universal health care, governments need to put some serious controls on the insurance and drug industries.

Posted by javajunkee on January 14, 2007 at 12:20 PM

NIT...with a little bit of luck.

Posted by kellytm on January 15, 2007 at 2:38 PM

College basketball is 80% recruiting today. It is very difficult to go deep in the NCAA without top drawer talent. However marginally talented teams with strong leadership and great coaching can be very competitive. That was my hope for this year but either the talent or leadership gap is too large or the injuries too pervasive for that to happen. Weber is an excellent coach so it surprises me we have not seen improvement in a number of players who got minutes last year.

Posted by dbrooks on January 15, 2007 at 2:47 PM

this team will improve.

We will be going to the NCAA.

Be positive.

Posted by jlacava on January 15, 2007 at 3:01 PM

I'll take some of what jlacava is smokin

Posted by rmitchell on January 15, 2007 at 3:21 PM

Did anybody notice: we were up by 11 at halftime, then got down by I think 14 points in 2nd half. That's a 25 point swing! Seems like the Illini think game is over @ halftime, they can't seem to bring same energy or focus or whatever to 2nd half of games. There's enough talent, but maybe not enough desire, on this team. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up going to the NIT.

Posted by cjcohen on January 15, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Articles like this are what make Loren Tate the outstanding writer he is . He loves Illinois basketball . He loves Bruce Weber . But somethings wrong and he knows it needs to be talked about . Bruce and his staff need to learn from this experience - it is a recruiting issue - no way around it . Look at what Frosh Patrick Beverly's doing at Arkansas - 14.5ppg , 50%fg , 82%ft , 31min/gm . He's an impact player , he's a scorer , and he's helping Ark. be the kind of team we wish we were right now . We should not have let him get away .

Posted by rbess on January 15, 2007 at 6:55 PM

Kind of a "half-empty, half-full" game. Come on, we are spoiled if we think we can win every Big Ten road game -- yet we could have won both, even with Chester's injury (does anyone doubt that he must be on the court as much as possible?), Jamar's and Brian's lack of offense. I think that with any kind of shooting we would have beaten OSU and Xavier as well. Saturday will be a huge test -- assuming we have healthy players.

Posted by jjohnson on January 15, 2007 at 7:46 PM

Think I"ll watch S I U much better mid major talent then we have. Please some tell couch to get a recruiter!

Posted by dkrus on January 15, 2007 at 11:37 PM

Think I"ll watch S I U much better mid major talent then we have. Please some tell coach to get a recruiter!

Posted by dkrus on January 15, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Get Hughes!!!!

Posted by dallen on January 16, 2007 at 11:49 AM

Shame on the editorial board for advocating the dumbing down of our would be politicians.

I do not think I would want someone to represent me who could not follow simple, basic instructions for gaining access to the ballot.

I believe the saying goes, "if it were easy, everyone would have one" with respect to a perfect physique.

I want the process to be more cchallenging than running for SStudent Body or Dorm Floor president. The issues, many of them arcane, that our representatives would face once in office, would involve a level of comprehension that I suspect would be lacking from someone that could not read and follow simple directions with respect to ballot access.

Maybe in a cow town, McCollums' proposal makes sense. It would not in a town that houses the flagship University of our state.

Posted by treythomps on January 17, 2007 at 6:57 AM

i agree, Hughes would be a huge get. We need an accomplished runner to make the spread work more efficiently.

Posted by vreato on January 17, 2007 at 10:29 AM

Music to my ears.

Posted by bbabcock on January 17, 2007 at 12:53 PM

We need that running back...don't let Hughes slip away!

Posted by dallen on January 17, 2007 at 3:21 PM

Is Cole the only player here?

Posted by dallen on January 17, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Will this team EVER jell?

Posted by dallen on January 17, 2007 at 3:26 PM

Welcome to the Illini, Regis!!! Best of luck!!

Posted by rbarnes on January 18, 2007 at 8:00 AM

If we need 9-7 in the league to earn an NCAA berth, the party is over.

Posted by vreato on January 18, 2007 at 3:18 PM

We appear to need someone who can take the ball to the basket and either get fouled or score. MacKenzie was quite effective at that in a losing effort (17 points). We also need to improve our defense against these very successful moves against us.

Posted by olucchesi on January 18, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Loren, 30 years from now we (who are alive) will be appreciative that we knew Weber and had a man of his character on campus

Posted by bmoore on January 19, 2007 at 10:40 AM

Loren, an excellent article, as usual. Frankly, I was waiting for you to relate the Washington Post article, which was linked on InsideIllini, to Coach.

I couldn't agree more with the post above. Like yourself, I recall the dark days of the slush fund and just how ruinous that was to the basketball program in the long run. Personally, I think that just makes stuff like this that much harder to take.

If I may add a thought to your last sentence -- Just when we thought we'd seen everything in recruiting... and where will the 'shoe' drop next?

Posted by jeffh on January 19, 2007 at 12:23 PM

I second bmoore. As much as I love the "Fighting Illini" bb and football, I love the university even more and value my degrees. I appreciate the class that Bruce brings to the school; we all benefit from it.

Posted by jjohnson on January 19, 2007 at 12:29 PM

To me, this article is very serious evidence that Weber has absolutely no clue on how to handle recruiting.

His integrity is to be commended, but his personal skills leave much to be desired.

Posted by ralexander on January 19, 2007 at 12:45 PM

sounds like sour grape excuse for our sub-standard talent level

Posted by rmitchell on January 19, 2007 at 12:51 PM

I agree with Ralexander and rmitchell. Go out and get some players. Don't act as if only people without integrity recruit. You can't have a zoo without the animals.

Posted by vreato on January 19, 2007 at 1:18 PM

ralexander, rmitchell and vreato, you guys are a disgrace. I'm glad you never attended our beloved university.

Posted by dthonn on January 19, 2007 at 2:52 PM

I can't believe some of the comments either, dthonn. Is winning all that matters to you people?

Posted by jeohaver on January 19, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Randle has to step up and attack the basket. Once he is in the lane he can either take it all the way, pass it if the defense collapses or take an 8 footer. He can't keep playing passively.

Posted by jeohaver on January 19, 2007 at 3:42 PM

Horse-feathers...Illinois needs to keep the blue-chip Illinois kids from going elsewhere...period!!Winning is not the issure...it just a matter of PRIDE!

Posted by dallen on January 19, 2007 at 8:09 PM

Ralexander, rmitchell, and dallen need to consider joining the Jayhawk or Hoosier Nation where integrity is not a synonym. We sure don't want to go in the direction you suggest. I wonder what talent evaluation skills you possess.

Posted by bbabcock on January 19, 2007 at 10:07 PM

guys, it ain't the xes and os, it's the jimmys and the joes. if weber can't handle the pressure of big time recruiting, the indiana state job opens up next year.

Posted by rmitchell on January 20, 2007 at 7:31 AM

So, rmitchell, you're aligning yourself with a guy who says, "Maybe it wouldn't be so bad to stoop to gutter level." That tells me all I need to know about you.

Posted by dthonn on January 20, 2007 at 10:27 AM

jim is an illini legend why is getting booted ?

Posted by hop on January 20, 2007 at 2:17 PM

Why is no sports reporter commenting on whast was clealy the worsts officiated game of the year. It is easy to list six plays where calls were clearly missed or rules not applied, and all of them went against Illinois.

Posted by bcorneille on January 21, 2007 at 10:37 AM

Tucker flying over Frazier's back and crashing to the floor while tipping the rebound to Taylor for an open jumper was the most egregious whistle swallowing job I've seen in years. Instead of going to the line down one and a chance to take the lead, we're down three. Awful.

Posted by dthonn on January 21, 2007 at 12:17 PM

I agree, the zebras missed calls especially down the stretch. But we also need to drop some shots and make free throws. We look like Michigan of recent years....not able to finish the contest. Go Chief!...Go Illini!

Posted by mustwhiz on January 21, 2007 at 1:42 PM

You can bet that recruiters from other schools are pounding away on the fact that Illinois is replacing the O-line coach. It will be interesting to see what effect that will have on the uncommitted such as Hughes or if some will decommit.

Posted by bstouffer on January 21, 2007 at 7:08 PM

The home court advantage is there-the talent advantage is not.

Posted by bstouffer on January 21, 2007 at 7:10 PM

Let's hope that Smith's situation is not a repeat of that of Cory Bradford who was never the same after his freshman year as a result of tweaking his knee. A minor inconsistency in explosiveness and elevation results in compensations in technique and makes every shot different-but you knew that!

Posted by bstouffer on January 21, 2007 at 8:53 PM

Let's hope that Smith's situation is not a repeat of that of Cory Bradford who was never the same after his freshman year as a result of tweaking his knee. A minor inconsistency in explosiveness and elevation results in compensations in technique and makes every shot different-but you knew that!

Posted by bstouffer on January 21, 2007 at 8:55 PM

Never read whether Alando Tucker was highly recruited & or offered a scholarship by the Illinois staff. Was he?

Posted by gpanozzo on January 21, 2007 at 11:09 PM

Paul Klee- This is a pathetic excuse for a story. Sure, Illinois missed FT's. Sure, Jamar Smith has no clue how to score any more. Sure, Brian Randle forgot to play on the offensive end for the first 34 minutes of the game. But in spite of all of that, Illinois WAS RIGHT THERE IN THE END, only to have the likes of Donnie Gray rip it away from the Illini. And yet, you make no mention of it. Pathetic! Simply pathetic.

Posted by mbeesley on January 21, 2007 at 11:17 PM

Its real simple, Illinois needs a point guard!!!!!!!!

Posted by wwatts on January 22, 2007 at 9:33 AM

Paul, I've gotta concur with those who say the officiating was horrible, and merited a mention here. Donnee Gray is turning into what Tom Rucker was in the 80's -- someone we hate to see in the arena unless he buys a ticket. Simply put -- the home team is supposed to get at least some calls, and we don't, especially with him.

Re Jamar -- Majerus made the point that until his ankle is sound, his shot will be affected -- do you have any insite on whether that's accurate?

Posted by jeffh on January 22, 2007 at 10:34 AM

Tucker's first season was the same year Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Kyle Wilson and Aaron Spears were freshman under Bill Self. Tucker and Wilson played the same position.

Who knew Wilson was going to wig out at Illinois and end up transferring to Wichita St. (He is in his last year this year) and Tucker would turn into the player he is today.

Posted by hpaulh on January 22, 2007 at 11:25 AM

The question remains that Weber did not recruit any "blue chippers" after he went the Final Four. If he can't recruit while the program is on top then how he is going to have to do it when he hits bottom like Zook is doing. I just don't think he has the social skills via Self/Zook...so I don't see a bright future. Tell me where I am wrong?

Posted by dallen on January 23, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Weber's a class guy who tries to do things right. I only hope that his itegrity eventually gets rewarded ahead of ethics-challenged coaches like Kelvin Sampson and Bill Self.

Posted by dgcrow on January 23, 2007 at 12:33 PM

Based on the article, it seems like Coach Weber doesn't understand the term "bad luck". The program will continue to prosper under coach, this just wasn't our year...

Posted by aratnakar on January 23, 2007 at 12:44 PM

C'mon...Sampson is surely the SNAKE OF THE YEAR

Posted by mustwhiz on January 23, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Has anyone out there read the fable "The Emperor's New Clothes?" Enough with the apologies and excuses, we simply don't have the athletes to compete at a high level. Only one man is responsible for this. End of story.

Posted by dstork on January 23, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Sampson's having the gall to say he has a classy program at Indiana would be funny if it wasn't for Coach Weber's current plight.

Bruce has more class in one fingernail than Sampson will ever have in his entire body. For reasons it would take too much space to list here, I'll stick with him for the foreseeable future and I hope the DIA will too.

Posted by jeffh on January 23, 2007 at 2:40 PM

There will be others at his position, we have Rashard back and we've brought in a top notch class already.

The time isn't far off when we'll be landing players like this routinely.

Posted by jeffh on January 23, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Class is great, but a penetrating point guard and a couple of cold-blooded shooters would be much better.Don't whine, just recruit.

Posted by vreato on January 23, 2007 at 2:50 PM

This is not basketball, no need to panic because we lost out on this guy. Zook seems to be doing a good job overall with recruiting. I'm sure coach has other players incoming who will prove to be just as good.

Posted by cjcohen on January 23, 2007 at 4:45 PM

I am not down on Weber or this team.

We will go to the NCAA and do well.

Support our team.

Posted by jlacava on January 23, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Where are the blue chippers? I still don't see any Head's, Brown's or William's on that list? That is the challenge...Weber can do the X and O's but he needs more than just "blue collar players" which he has now. Great effort against Indiana! My hat is off to the entire team and staff. He does have some kids with great hearts and character but you still must have talent!

Posted by dallen on January 24, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Does Dallen know these recruits personally?

Its sad that we have fans like him who seem to think they know everything about recruting..

Posted by aratnakar on January 24, 2007 at 1:41 PM

Question still remains...why didn't Gorden/Sampson tell Weber so that Weber could go out get another guard. Those actions surrounding this incident is simply unacceptable! It will take a while for Illinois to make up for it...and maybe never!

Posted by dallen on January 24, 2007 at 1:49 PM

I agree but they still need a consistent outside game which they do no have at the present. Gorden is gone but they still need that type of player!

Posted by dallen on January 24, 2007 at 1:51 PM

dallen, let us know when you have an original thought, OK?

Posted by dthonn on January 24, 2007 at 2:16 PM

Based on Sampson's comments before and after the game, it is clear that he still just doesn't get it. And being as ethically-challenged as he is, he never will.

Posted by dgcrow on January 24, 2007 at 2:17 PM

My memory is that Williams was ranked around 50th, which is exactly were McCamey is rated. I also remember that Head was not rated in the top 100. Dee Brown was the only one rated in the Blue Chip area, I believe he was generally rated around #10. Once again I agree with dthonn!

Posted by jeohaver on January 24, 2007 at 2:28 PM

hey dallen....Weber had once recruited Gordon,

so therefore Gordon must not even be a genuine

blue chipper anyway, because Weber can't recruit

anybody according to you. So no big deal about E.G.

Posted by walker on January 24, 2007 at 4:50 PM

As ugly as it was at times, the defense by both sides was amazing -- and I continue to think this is an Illinois team that is able to beat everyone they faced, but just hasn't always gotten it done. Good job -- and a pretty fair job last Saturday, as well.

Posted by jjohnson on January 24, 2007 at 5:09 PM

Glad to see these comments; I was afraid I was the only one seeing the glass as half-full. Bruce can coach, and ask me if Head, Brown, and Williams are not better off for having played for him, and if that won't eventually pay of in the recruiting wars

Posted by jjohnson on January 24, 2007 at 5:15 PM

Gill was a Blue chip and I think most will agree he was one of the top 50 to ever play for the Illini

Posted by bmorphy on January 24, 2007 at 7:14 PM

wasnt that is

Posted by bmorphy on January 24, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Tell me, you 'experts', are any of these guys lefties? ---and how are they scholastically?

We Floridan ILLINI were pleased As punch with the Indiana game. We celebrated by walking the beach this morning wearing orange and blue. Eat your hearts out!--Go Krusshhhhh !

Posted by raycarlson on January 24, 2007 at 8:24 PM

most fun I've had at a 50 40 game!

Posted by elesage on January 25, 2007 at 6:29 AM

raycarlson, Watkins is a lefty. Scholastically McCamey, Tisdale and Cole are fine, don't know about Watkins.

Posted by dthonn on January 25, 2007 at 11:35 AM

Loren, thanks so much for keeping the AAU coaching and shoe company influence peddling in the forefront for News-Gazette readers. I so appreciate Terry Cole coming out and sharing his feedback from Bill's experience. How many parents would want to or dare to go public.

Problem though. Who is going to take the Washington Post investigative story to the next level. It obviously won't be the NCAA. They have better things to do making sure we protect ourselves from political incorrectness.

I approached a sports writer about taking the lead. I was given the response that the budget does not have room for this kind of work.

Thanks again, Loren. By the way, I am on my way to Indy to buy a pair of Adidas that are on sale.

Posted by bbabcock on January 25, 2007 at 12:35 PM

Great insight Loren -- especially the final paragraph.

And regarding "taking the Washington Post story to the next level," well, I don't know of anyone better qualified to do so than you -- in all seriousness.

Posted by jeffh on January 25, 2007 at 1:13 PM

Good job Loren. Just hope parents of Athletes read this article and act accordingly.

Posted by rhamilton on January 25, 2007 at 1:29 PM

Gill was not a blue chipper. His recruiting visit was with some AA guard from Colorado or somwhere in the mountain states. Kendall, who is an all time Illini great without dispute, was plan B that weekend. Not a bad plan b at all, but he was not the recruiting target that day.

Posted by optimator on January 25, 2007 at 2:06 PM

Amen, bbabcock. The NCAA should be working on real issues like this rather than expending its energy trying to ban mascots for the sake of political correctness.

Posted by dgcrow on January 25, 2007 at 3:24 PM

People- Let's be real. Thugs like Butler pale in comparison to the real 'hostile and abusive' issues that the NCAA has to face- like The Chief.

;-)

Posted by mbeesley on January 25, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Butler is slime. And rankings are bogus.

But just because the rankings are bogus doens't mean that Butler doesn't control a lot of the in-state talent, so let's not diminish the impact Butler has on the elite players in Illinois year in and year out.

It's ridiculous to have no working relationship with him whatsoever.

Posted by ralexander on January 25, 2007 at 9:06 PM

ralexander - Why have a working relationship with someone who is telling all his AAU players to not go to University of Illinois? With or without the relationship you have the same outcome.

Posted by hpaulh on January 26, 2007 at 12:19 AM

What a sad season to watch this team compared to teams of the last three years...and the future offers absolutely nothing!

Posted by dallen on January 27, 2007 at 5:40 PM

Where are the recruits the last two years to keep us on top while we were sitting on top of the heap...and we got nothing for it...that is still on Weber!

Posted by dallen on January 27, 2007 at 5:42 PM

Name me a quality recruit that Weber has broght to the program? He is good with a "guard orientated" offense especially with the X and O's but hasn't got it done otherwise. Illinois is hurt'in for certain for the future years!

Posted by dallen on January 28, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Ummmm...there is a bye week between at Indiana and Northwestern (2/10 to 2/18).

Posted by ralexander on January 28, 2007 at 3:41 PM

Anyone who has coached knows that the fire in the belly doesn't get put on with the jock strap. This is an immature team with inconsistent, sputtering intensity. What's disappointing is that many of the players continue to spout the cliched excuses-at this point they need to either make a complete effort or else keep quiet. Weber must be exhausted.

Posted by bstouffer on January 28, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Again, dallen, anytime you want to post an original thought, fine by me.

Posted by dthonn on January 28, 2007 at 7:33 PM

name me a "quality comment" that you have made

recently dallen. You are too focused on the concept of what you deem quality recruits. For

example McBride was considered a must get quality

recruit. Well, we got him (Self) and he turns out

to be a fair/decent college player. Others that you would have considered wasted scholarships (IE

Gill, Head,etc) turned out to be pretty good. No

one really knows who will excell down the road. It's by and large a guessing game that is easy to

criticize or overly praise after the fact

Posted by walker on January 28, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Walker is certainly right.You dont know!

However I still believe Fraiser and smith

will end up with great junior and Senior years.

They are just going through a bad sophomore year

Jinx The last two years Uconn has brought in

what most experts have called quality recruits,

and they have yet to beat a quality team and have

lost 7 of 9. keep positive, this team and Weber

will be OK.

Posted by jlacava on January 28, 2007 at 9:07 PM

the difference is UConn has 8 freshman - 8! Illinois has 3 seniors and 2 juniors, 4 of which start.

Posted by optimator on January 29, 2007 at 8:27 AM

I noticed that your piece on John Dergo doesn't mention one time what sport is being discussed. I thought it might be winter tennis (matches are mentioned), but didn't think winter tennis was a sport except in Florida or California. I broke the code when I realized that you were giving weights classes. Now I know that the Illini have pugilists on campus. Maybe they can line up a match or two with the "Chief haters"!

Posted by jorge on January 29, 2007 at 1:43 PM

They should keep the chief.

Posted by David on January 29, 2007 at 6:20 PM

For D Allen, you think Bill Self was such a good recruiter. Then why did he pass on Iguadala and Tucker. You have no clue.

Posted by bbabcock on January 29, 2007 at 9:44 PM

As I recall Derek Harper had a pretty awful shooting year when he was a sophomore (maybe 37%). He worked off season with a sports psychologist (I think Rainier Martin), and besides physical shooting practice began doing a lot of visualizing both off season and during the season. His junior season was much different, and he was off to the NBA

Posted by lewicki on January 30, 2007 at 11:38 AM

I'm surprised not to see a stupid comment from Dallen complaining about lack of recruiting!

Posted by aratnakar on January 30, 2007 at 2:21 PM

You're absolutely correct. It all starts tonight.

Win and we have a good shot at 9-7 in the conf.

Posted by walker on January 30, 2007 at 2:37 PM

dallen must be out of town?

Posted by walker on January 30, 2007 at 2:43 PM

Hopefully Dallen moved to Lawrence, Kansas, to root for them and Bill Self!

Posted by jadams on January 30, 2007 at 3:52 PM

Name me one big time recruit that has come to Illinois since Self left...I like Weber but his challenge is going to be recriuting...Count how many Illinois players are with Self now? I live in Ohio and see the Thad 5 from a coach that could be at Illinois right now. Now there is a recruiter who grew up in Hoopeston, Illinois.

Posted by dallen on January 31, 2007 at 12:32 AM

Name me one big time recruit that has come to Illinois since Self left...I like Weber but his challenge is going to be recriuting...Count how many Illinois players are with Self now? I live in Ohio and see the Thad 5 from a coach that could be at Illinois right now. Now there is a recruiter who grew up in Hoopeston, Illinois.

Posted by dallen on January 31, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Chester will be a force by the time he is a senior

Posted by walker on January 31, 2007 at 3:32 PM

In response to your headline: Where are the "red faces"?

Why is it that it's "okay" to make veiled insulting remarks toward Native Americans "red faces" through some perceived clever and insulting innuendo or double entendre type of remark?

To wit: Is the News-Gazette now going to accuse those who are upset with this editorial of now being on the warpath?

It's about the level of maturity and juvenile journalistic expression I would expect to see from the same newspaper that uses terms such as "Zealot" "Nanny Stater" referring to those that they disagree with and other such delightful name calling.

Perhaps somebody at the paper could be a little more mature and demonstrate the necessary social responsibility, dropping the ethnic and racially tinged innuendos and replacing them with an appropriate headline or statement and objective form of debate to at least have the appearance of some level of credibility.

Posted by mattvarbl on February 1, 2007 at 3:05 PM

While I agree that the violence referred to in the Facebook comments doesn't seem to constitute illegal threats, you are completely off base to suggest that this represents any sort of "free and frank" discussion. When debate on issues devolves into nothing more than outrageous sarcasm and sentiments of violence (however farcical), ideas have ceased to flow and parties have resorted to a shouting match. A lot of loud barking rarely includes much intellectual bite.

Posted by javajunkee on February 1, 2007 at 6:05 PM

Today's editorial is, without doubt, the most disappointing and disturbing I've seen in several years of "News-Gazette" watching, a coarse wink at brutality in the name of "fairness." If proposing, however fantastically, that a particular student be killed in a particular manner is mere "name-calling, ridicule and scorn," then nothing short of a Mafia blackmail letter, lettered in blood, can ever be seen as a threat to further speech and open exchange. I'd love to learn if the editorial's authors would tell their own college-age daughters to suck it up and brush it off if faced with a similar "breach of decorum" in the form of a verbal tomahawk. The Chief coarsens and dehumanizes everything it touches, these days....

Posted by Fieldmouse on February 1, 2007 at 11:19 PM

A specific threat of violence toward an individual is not a "free and frank discussion"; it is a threat. And your use of the phrase "red faces" in your title is smarmy. Grow up News Gazette.

Posted by jayrosenstein on February 2, 2007 at 7:55 AM

Great stuff Loren -- though I'm not an attorney, this sounds like a sound legal basis to differentiate the Chief from other "mascots."

I'm sure you're correct about it being too late to save the Chief in his present form, but I'm glad you put this out here now. I only wish yours and Professor Smith's points couldn't have been made earlier, perhaps in a legal filing or in the court room.

Posted by jeffh on February 2, 2007 at 12:25 PM

I don't understand why the UI doesn't take legal action against the thugs on the NCAA Executive Committee. If North Dakota has guts enough to do it, the UI should demonstrate the same level of courage.

Posted by dgcrow on February 2, 2007 at 12:52 PM

The point of this article is well taken. However,the "elite" college basketball programs seem to find a way to build upon their successes without significant backwards movement. Part of the psychology of winning is being able to accept that pressure and continue that winning pattern. I feel this article is a built-in excuse mechanism to justify the downward slide of the Illinois basketball program after reaching the national championship game less than two years ago. We should not accept less than the will to continue our winning ways.

Posted by Lanse on February 2, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Why not sit tight and see what happens in N. Dakota? It's already been determined that the majority is in favor of the Chief. Are we going to buckle in favor of a radical few? That's not what built this country. The NCAA is WAY out of bounds on this one. Those that have a problem don't need to attend....keep on dancin' Chief!!!

Posted by mustwhiz on February 2, 2007 at 1:27 PM

This American-Indian stuff always seems to jump up and bite us. Isn't IU's Sampson part Indian?

Posted by vreato on February 2, 2007 at 1:29 PM

Expectations were built from pre-season hype about the progress made inthe offseason by the team. Jamar and Rich were working on improving their 3 pt. consistency and having success, and Jamar had improved his defense and ball handlling. Randle was ready to deliver on his oft reported potential and, as such, was named to the pre-season all wooden watch list. Pruitt had developed his skills in the low post and Chester and Randle both had worked overtime developing a bonafide outside shot. As it turns out, Carter was the pleasant surprise and most consistent scorer early on; sometimes the only reliable scorer. Calvin Brock contributed beyond expectations, but, in general, the team was over-hyped and has subsequently underachieved. Injuries are partly to blame, but perhaps a more realistic assessement of the players (this includes the media) prior to the season would have quelled the disappointment that has transpired so far.

Posted by kellytm on February 2, 2007 at 1:38 PM

I think that this raises the issue of discrimination and/or favoritism by the NCAA also. How can the ban selectively apply to some like the Chief, and yet for Florida St. and Utah it does not apply. Are animal rights activist going to be next? No more Bears, Badgers, Wolverines, etc. as animals are only agressive for survival (food and to defend themselves) not for sport.

Posted by denobbe on February 2, 2007 at 3:25 PM

An interesting perspective, but ultimately the logic isn't quite there. If it were just a matter of the Marching Illini and the Chief performing in a classroom setting, or even a concert setting, that's one thing. But they are performing as official representatives of the University athletic teams.

If the University decided to make the music of Wagner its official anthem, you might see a different response to the orchestra just performing it.

Or, if the University decided to a make a controversial piece of artwork its official logo, there would be a great deal of outcry.

Your academic freedom argument is interesting, but the reality is that the Chief and the Marching Illini - while part of an academic course, are not presented or performing strictly in an academic setting.

Posted by ralexander on February 2, 2007 at 3:58 PM

I have been critical of Weber not caching in on some big time recruits when he was sitting on top of the basketball world and that still holds but, it is not a character slam on anybody because Weber has coached with a lot of heart and so has his kids especially Frazier...how can you not like that kid. The real question...where is the real help going to come from...we are missing too many kids in the Chicago area and they are going everywhere else but Champaign/Urbana and that is what gripes me the most!!

Posted by dallen on February 2, 2007 at 4:09 PM

Loren, your perspective on this is refreshing and to some degree hopeful. Let's let the dust settle(as if we have a choice)and in the meantime continue to ring the floor with orange clad faithful, play and sing all the music, from "Pride of the Illini" through "Alma Mater" to the concluding barefoot exclamation,and revere the Illini Spirit even in the absence of our exiled symbol. I find this a far better alternative than just quitting. Tell me it isn't possible that we have also been muted by this unjust NCAA declaration.

Posted by dhornickel on February 2, 2007 at 5:25 PM

Boy, how great to hear, "Thanks." All the best to Frank; I hope he can make it back to the NBA. Remember, at the time (at it seemed obvious), he was considered the best talent ever to come to Illinois.

Posted by jjohnson on February 3, 2007 at 2:06 PM

Frank was truly a maddening player when he was with our beloved, but after reading this, I always come back to the same conclusion: tough to hate the guy.

Posted by mbeesley on February 3, 2007 at 3:14 PM

I can't see how our schedule can be that high.

Posted by bfarley on February 3, 2007 at 3:46 PM

This definitely sounds like a different Frank. More interested, more passionate and more determined.

As the previous posted said, he was a maddening player to watch, but I don't know that I've seen anyone who looked so slow, but moved so fast. It always looked easy for Frank.

Best wishes Frank.

Posted by jmeans on February 4, 2007 at 6:39 AM

dallen has taken an alias.

Posted by dhornickel on February 4, 2007 at 7:50 AM

How anyone could call a guy a "maddening player" who scored 30 points in the NCAA Tournament, hit countless big shots, a half-dozen game winners, was an All-American, a Big Ten MVP, and led us to victory more times than I can remember is beyond be.

Shame on you people.

Posted by ralexander on February 4, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Don't forget, this was Minnesota.

Posted by vreato on February 5, 2007 at 10:01 AM

What I think about this isn't printable, so I'll leave it at that.

Posted by jeffh on February 5, 2007 at 12:37 PM

Are the Gordons and the Brewsters related or by coincidence, are they just incredibly poor communicators?

Posted by waddeji on February 5, 2007 at 1:21 PM

Blood is thicker than water...

Posted by dallen on February 5, 2007 at 2:20 PM

I hope this turns out to be a 4 year mistake for Clint. Nice life lesson you have assisted your son with, Tim!

Posted by mbeesley on February 5, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Nobody can fault a kid for changing his mind. Nobody can fault a kid for wanting to play for his dad. Everyone can fault a kid for lying repeatedly about it, to the detriment of the coach to whom he gave his word.

Clint is a kid, Tim is not. I've always held Tim in high regard. Until now.

Posted by dthonn on February 5, 2007 at 5:07 PM

If the Illini coaching staff didn't see this coming, I'd be very suprised. Who can blame the kid, or for that matter his father for this switch. To be able to continue to coach your son (after probably coaching him on the side up to this point),... to be able to play for your dad... that's a heck of a lot different than the Gordon Sampson deal in my opinion. Good luck to them both except when they play the Illini.

Posted by Frank Dutton on February 6, 2007 at 7:30 AM

No doubt the staff did see this coming or, at least, knew it could be coming. Not the point. Nor is it the point that the kid would want to play for his dad.

The point is that the kid lied about his commitment up until just a few days ago. As a parent, Tim should have "coached" his son to not tell such lies. He didn't.

As a result, Tim has lost a great deal of respect from the Illini community that he once served so well. He will have to live with that.

Posted by dthonn on February 6, 2007 at 8:43 AM

I love these sinless, perfect people(jeffh, waddeji, dallen, mbeesley, dthonn). They must be considering how they are casting stones. On January 15th when the announcement was first made, I'm sure he was still committed. However, he has had three weeks to think about and visit the Minnesota campus and think of the different oppurtunities and a chance to play for his dad. If I was in the same position I would do the same thing. Maybe the rest of you should take your orange and blue glasses off for a minute a remember what it was like to be a 17 year old kid.

There is no comparison with Brewster and Gordon! I echo Frank Dutton's remarks, Good Luck Tim and Clint except when you are playing the Illini!

Posted by hpaulh on February 6, 2007 at 10:39 AM

So, hpaulh, since he publicly stated that he was "100% committed" on January 15th, is it asking too much for him to publicly decommit when he had a change of heart? Seems like Tim should have stepped in here.

Most dads, myself included, would have done so. It's about doing the right thing, yes? Isn't that what we're supposed to teach our kids?

I don't pretend to be "sinless or perfect" and I assume you don't either. I simply think this was handled poorly and I blame Tim. I don't compare the situation to the Gordon mess.

Posted by dthonn on February 6, 2007 at 11:41 AM

can't really fault the kid. Gordon is a totally

different scenario in my opinion.

Posted by walker on February 6, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Didn't Illinois get a player who de-committed after the MSU change?

Posted by gnelson on February 6, 2007 at 12:45 PM

I think the explanations will be in deposition and at trial in front of a jury if some or all these parents decide to sue the school district. If I had a victimized child I would immediately sue the school, sue each member of the school board, sue the superintendent and sue the daylights out of every single administrator involved in this in addition to suing the teacher.

Posted by mattvarbl on February 6, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Cheez, give them both a break. Thanks, hpaulh, for making some sense of this.

Posted by jjohnson on February 6, 2007 at 2:18 PM

gnelson, that's the whole point. Cornell de-committed. Brewster didn't. In fact, Brewster claimed he was "100% committed."

jjohnson, I don't think for a minute that our program will suffer terribly because Brewster reneged on his commitment. I simply think things should be done the right way. This wasn't.

Posted by dthonn on February 6, 2007 at 3:20 PM

sounds like Illinois picked up a real winner.

Posted by jjrepp on February 6, 2007 at 3:51 PM

Thanks for noting the officiating, Paul. If I may say so -- Better late than never!

Posted by jeffh on February 7, 2007 at 12:34 PM

Is there anybody here that will make an impact on the team next year?

Posted by dallen on February 7, 2007 at 4:23 PM

Sounds good!

Posted by dallen on February 7, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Having worked for DCFS in the past and investigated things the school districts in the area, both Champaign and Urbana "mucked" up before calling authorities, I am sure Urbana authorities didn't do a complete investigation to start with. I would also look to get my pound of flesh from the district. School administrators need to understand they are NOT investigators, and they do NOT know how to conduct investigations. They need to leave it to the professionals.

Posted by Gram24 on February 8, 2007 at 6:30 PM

The last sentence of your editorial says it all. How can the guy who needs investigating be conducting the investigation? Sounds like Las Vegas politics to me!

Posted by Gram24 on February 8, 2007 at 6:42 PM

Great final line Loren! And another fine assessment of a critical situation. I've said for many years, when it comes to the Illini, the only analysis I want to read is Loren Tate.

Posted by jeffh on February 9, 2007 at 12:39 PM

If I were Guenther I would hold a press conference and hand out the book "Personal Foul" by Richard Lieberman. It chronicles the length Notre Dame will go to protect it's football team. The book discloses the actual transcript of the age discirmination trial involving Joe Moore (former off. line coach) and ND. I read the book and these ND people under oath make Bill Clinton sound honest. Not enough people know about this story and how it reveals the "win at all costs" attitude at ND. ND is nothing more than a school built around a football team.

Posted by cretzky on February 9, 2007 at 1:01 PM

Boy! Was this overdue. Thanks for bringing to light some of the under-handed dirty dealing that we have had to endure in recent years.I'll bet Ron Turner could add to this on the few players that he bumped into Whiner U. on. Let's get behind our coaching staff and push this program forward. It's time for the "sleeping giant" to roar. Go Illini

Posted by mustwhiz on February 9, 2007 at 1:04 PM

This is starting to look a lot like the Catholic Curch debachle of hide, move, or protect for

the administrations.

Posted by kc2157 on February 9, 2007 at 2:02 PM

ND was overated last year and they will never return to the days they have enjoyed in the past. They play a "soft schedule" and get beat by a Big Ten Team regularily...let the cry babies weep in the corner where they belong.

Posted by dallen on February 9, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Thanks Loren for a great and timely article. Now if Gunther will follow up by naming coaches and un9versities giving times and places. Thanks and keep up the goods work. This is a great followup to your basketball recruiting expose'

Posted by jmluse on February 9, 2007 at 5:23 PM

This is not surprising because Charlie Weis is a protege of Bill Belichick who is the biggest jerk in the NFL. LT was right on after the Chargers-Pats game when he said New England had no class and it starts with the head coach. Weis is a crybaby coming off a bad season. He is looking for an unfair advantage in recruiting the next class. I hope Illinois goes forward and does uncover ND's hand behind this smear campaign. Too bad the NCAA is so busy policing team mascots that it can't be bothered to address issues like this which actually impact fair competition.

Posted by cdwatson on February 9, 2007 at 6:05 PM

All this talk about Illinois football!!! You can't buy this kind of publicity! An article in the New York Times about Illinois football?? Hope the NCAA doesn't punish Illinois for all this free publicity-priceless!!

Posted by bstouffer on February 9, 2007 at 7:41 PM

Zook needs to be reminded that "You can't move without creating friction"

Posted by dallen on February 11, 2007 at 8:13 AM

Good stuff, as usual Loren. Regarding the officials -- isn't there "one in every crew" when we go to Indiana? It used to be Tom Rucker -- the 25th year Freshman Head Cheerleader -- yesterday it was Mayborg. Where was Ted Valentine when we needed him (though he's far from perfect either).

Posted by jeffh on February 11, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Officiating didn't cost Illinois the game. Poor recognition on offense created turnovers.Too often, Illinois will pass up a relatively easy open look to dump the ball off to a player that is covered and that unravels too many hard fought offensive sets. Brain Randle has unfortunately mastered this skill. Why run a play for McBride when he was clearly gassed and had not made a shot the second half? Carter did travel on the possession you described, but, more importantly, gave the ball up on a key possession when he had an open jump shot inside the free throw line. He had his shot working, and he should have been option one. Clearly, depth may be an advantage for Illinois going down the stretch. Let's see if Arnold will gain some some playing time at the expense of Randle, who struggles to stay in the game and too often disappears if he does manage to play significant minutes.

Posted by kellytm on February 12, 2007 at 8:27 AM

Woe to the poor unfortunate souls who will have to leave their phones in their cars. It's a travesty of justice.

Posted by javajunkee on February 12, 2007 at 12:15 PM

why is our coach & the whole team so fixed on

21? I agree that we need at least that many wins,

but doesn't that imply that we are willing to

shoot for a minimum amount of wins. I think our

attitude should be to win them all. If we don't

at least our goal is not to barely sneak in.

Posted by walker on February 12, 2007 at 12:44 PM

One more thing: Is it just us, or has Big Ten officiating taken a step back?

YES -- A huge one!

Posted by jeffh on February 12, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Right now Duke only has 18 wins, same number of wins as the Illini. Duke has dropped out of the top 25 and has suffered four straight losses. Why isn't everyone talking about whether or not Duke will make the tournament?

Posted by schristensen on February 12, 2007 at 8:38 PM

I for one can hardly wait for the fall!

Posted by jjohnson on February 13, 2007 at 12:58 PM

I knew there were more reasons why I don't like Notre Dame. The list is growing.

Posted by tedavies on February 13, 2007 at 1:22 PM

I think alot of us are growing tired of the pompous win at-all-cost attitude at Whiner U. The kids are getting smarter...they know Weis is an NFL coach and probably won't be there long. It's time to awaken the "sleeping giant". Go Illini !!

Posted by mustwhiz on February 13, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Doing bench presses with the prospects is a recruiting weapon.---

Posted by lflodin on February 13, 2007 at 10:28 PM

Thank you, Loren. As I posted previously, you can't buy this kind of publicity. Priceless!

Posted by bstouffer on February 14, 2007 at 7:50 AM

Finally! Been a long time comin'.

Posted by rmitchell on February 16, 2007 at 9:42 AM

He'll be missed by many.

But I am sure that everyone on campus will be better off without a divisive mascot. Everywhere else I've ever been or known of, the mascot is a critter meant to unify and rally the crowd.

And maybe the millions of dollars the UI spends every year defending the chief can be spent on education or improving buildings. I wonder how many parents were happy to spend $500 to $1000 per year to defend the chief? Maybe tuition can go down, or they can at least hire some faculty and fix up the place. (Ever seen Lincoln Hall? It is a national embarassment!)

And the EU will now surely not even vote on the legislation they proposed to no honor degrees from the UI. I don't know how many UI grads want to work in Europe, but I am sure some do.

All in all, a good thing. I am sure donors will keep giving. I was at Stanford when the "Indians" mascot was decomissioned. Out of almost one million threats never to give again to Stanford if they eliminated the Indian mascot, only about 100 had ever given anything (and the total gift was pitifully small). I strongly suspect it is the same at UI. Of course, UI never looked into whether or not those making threats gave enough money to worry about.

Posted by DEB on February 16, 2007 at 11:34 AM

Isn't it ironic? Some UI and ISU employees are so ethical that they can answer the questions correctly and without having to think for too long (or look things up), so the state brands them as unethical cheats!

Since most will take the test on state time (i.e. our tax money), I suggest they take some time off and go get a cup of coffee before they hit the send button on their electronic test.

Posted by DEB on February 16, 2007 at 11:39 AM

This is the saddest day in our proud university's history.

Posted by dthonn on February 16, 2007 at 11:58 AM

One point that occurs to me and has never been mentioned to my knowledge is that the anti-Chief elements (whom I believe to be ultra-PC zealots) see the University of Illinois as a "soft target." For instance, you don't see them trying to pressure the Washington Redskins, Chicago Blackhawks (right on Emil Jones' doorstep even), Cleveland Indians (what about Chief Wahoo -a cartoonish caracature), Atlanta Braves or the leagues that operate them.

As a prestigious and progressive educational institution that cares how it is perceived, the UofI has been selectively attacked for years by these people. I for one am sorry they have now seemingly prevailed.

GO ILLINI

Posted by jeffh on February 16, 2007 at 12:30 PM

Unbelievable!! An 80 year old honored tradition is being discontinued by a clear minority opinion (not even near a majority) and a group of dictatorial misguided fools in Shawnee Mission. It's time to get a spine and show these manipulating fools the error of their ways...like the good folks in N. Dakota!! Do you really think the Redskins or the Chiefs are going to change? They refuse to be bullied. Is this the true ILLINI spirit?

Posted by mustwhiz on February 16, 2007 at 12:53 PM

The end of the Chief is bad enough, but the way it was done is dishonorable. Why not a farewell tour during the upcoming football season when tens of thousands of fans could pay their final respects (and generate hundreds of thousands of dollars) versus the non-revenue sports hosting a couple of NCAA tournament events for a very few fans and a couple of bucks? The U of I has changed the great tradition of the Three-In-One for the Three-and-None. For me, NO CHIEF&NO MONEY!!!

Posted by illinijd76 on February 16, 2007 at 12:58 PM

This is a great day for the Uof I. The cheif is one of the dummbest mascots in college history.

Good riddance!!

Posted by aratnakar on February 16, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Hey aratnakar- you better cover up with a stronger shell, Mrs. ultra-sensitive. First off, try to spell CHIEF correctly.

Then, dummy, try again in your efforts to spell DUMBEST.

Then, try and remember that the CHIEF is a SYMBOL, not a mascot.

Posted by mbeesley on February 16, 2007 at 2:14 PM

How will today's people remember the Illiniwek and the Potawatami people? For most, they have never existed, since they have never heard or read; hence, they will not be remembered.

The Jesuit fathers were probably the last to remember the history of these sovereign nations; the last to see and record the Illiniwek's earthly demise at Starved Rock.

In their wisdom and humility, our forefathers honored and forever memorialized our vanquished guardians and hosts by the naming of our great state....Illinois.

I prefer Chief Illiniwek's portrayal of the ancient Illiniwek ideal than the sorrowful reality of contemporary Indian society, a society that lobbies for casinos and special dispensations to sell tobacco; a society in disarray.

In the fictionalized film "Amadeus", Antonio Saleiri, realizes the dimness of his musical gift when compared to Mozart's gift and further realizes that the human condition seldom exceeds mediocrity. As their patron saint of mediocrity, He absolves his fellow asylum inmates for the mediocrity of their lives. We should not be harsh towards "Perfesser" Kaufmann, Emil Jones, Lawrence Eppley and their fellow travelers, for they cannot rise above the smallness of their lives and are compelled by envy to destroy what most find as good. May Saint Salieri absolve them of their mediocrity and may Chief Illiniwek forever be revered and remembered.

Posted by mbeesley on February 16, 2007 at 3:33 PM

Weber must surely be wondering when this bad dream will finally be over.

Posted by bstouffer on February 16, 2007 at 4:26 PM

The objection to the "Chief" for me has always been one of sensitivity; those European settlers who destroyed Indian culture on this continent appropriated the perceived admirable aspects of our native Americans to make themselves feel good, almost totally at sporting events. Sports uber alles! Most native Americans resented that, especially having phony characters (white male in general) representing a factitious Indian dance, and I can understand and sympathize. Hence I side with them. Good riddance to that factitious chief!.

Posted by mkb on February 16, 2007 at 4:43 PM

In the sidebar story about the filing of the lawsuit by the incumbent chief and his assistant chief, it was stated that the two were being given academic credit for performing at half-time at football and basketball games (just like the Illinettes who get Band 103 credit for performing, or should I say "wiggling their fannies", at half-tiome too).

It is totally incredulous that the vaunted University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, a world-clas research unvirsity where nylon, the transistor and a host of other significant inventions that improved the world grants academic credit for these "performances". Unebleivable couldn'tescrie it better.

Posted by gdkgeo on February 16, 2007 at 4:50 PM

I deserve the slams on my spelling. It was a rush job. I just think the Chief was always a boring symobol/mascot.

I'm very happy we will not see anymore

Posted by aratnakar on February 16, 2007 at 5:00 PM

This is truly a sad day for the U of I community. The honor and tradition that I experienced while attending Illinois will be missed by upcoming generations. I always honored the Chief and everything he represented. I am very sorry that my son or daughter will not know the same feeling that I felt during football and basketball games.

Posted by uiuchauser on February 16, 2007 at 5:25 PM

It is difficult to understand how we in the majority lose to the few. This is much the same as the argument over "In God We Trust", prayer in schools or the Pledge of Allegiance. Though the poll numbers show over whelming support to the contrary....the voice of the few wins the day. My admiration goes out to Roger Huddleston and his group for putting up the good fight.

Posted by tcheatum on February 16, 2007 at 5:26 PM

I'm glad that the Board of Trustees decided to finally bite the bullet. Now it's all over but the whining.

Posted by zemblan on February 16, 2007 at 5:33 PM

The retirement of a college sports mascot does nothing to improve the lives of the Native American people nor does it in any way improve race relations on a more global scale.

This debate has been an absurd waste of resources in both money and man hours, and the entire exercise has been little more than a side-show obscuring real socioeconomic issues that have absolutely nothing to do with Chief Illini.

There are many who will inevitably see today's decision as some far reaching "victory" to be celebrated, and it would do them well to consider carefully what they are celebrating today. Nothing was accomplished.

Racism did not go away with the retiring of The Chief. Native Americans on reservations have not been instantly catapulted out of poverty as a result of the retiring of The Chief. Ignorance and misconceptions regarding the history and tradition of Native American cultures did not suddenly give way to enlightenment due to the retiring of The Chief.

The Chief will be retired, but I doubt that The Debate will be retired with him.

Posted by MGranse on February 16, 2007 at 5:43 PM

I grew up in Champaign, then graduated from the University. I saw every home football and basketball game from 1974 to 1997. I moved to Michigan, and was a lifelong Illini fan until today. The University of Illinois has ceased to exist based on the decision made today. To all of you that supported this, you have lost.

Posted by dtjack on February 16, 2007 at 5:46 PM

I am saddened that the decision was made to make Chief Illiniwek disappear. As I told the NCAA committee over a year ago, instead of trying to better understand Indian culture, I fear we are "just putting them back on the reservation" with the removal of the Chief...much like the original "Removal" for which I am a descendent. I grew up in awe of the Chief. Something I never experienced towards the Atlanta Braves. I think it is a big mistake to make the Chief disappear. Since the U of I as never had a mascot, I recommend that we don't try to replace the Chief with something else. I think a mascot should be absent. That way we can treat the Chief just the way our American Indians have been treated already and apparently want continued.

Posted by chonmom on February 16, 2007 at 6:03 PM

How is Weber going to answer the certain to come questions on this disaster? What parent in their right mind would feel Champaign is the right place for their son now? Plus, McBride's indiscretions are about to go front page again with his trial coming up.

Weber has struggled with recruiting before all this. Then we first have McBride followed by Smith make it appear to be a party environment around here; not to mention the inevitable questions of staff 'control'.

Posted by shelman on February 16, 2007 at 6:17 PM

The University of Illinois administration got what it wanted. The NCAA got what it wanted. Professer Kaufman got what he wanted. Everybody got what they wanted but the majority. Unfortunately, that seems to be America these days.

Posted by Frank Dutton on February 16, 2007 at 7:07 PM

What a sight it would be if EVERYONE in orange leaves the hall next Wed. after the Chief at the half. The U of I wants to say farewell to the Chief. Out of respect for the Chief, it would be neat to show them life without Illini fans for the 2nd half. Ill not attending anymore games.

Posted by BigD on February 16, 2007 at 7:23 PM

Didn't the Clemson University footall coach complain about the ND coach negative recruiting methods? Lou Holtz also mentioned this on TV, but being a ND fan made a joke of it.

They need to win to keep the TV contract in place, and any way they find to win, to get an edge is okay.

The high road taken by previous ND coaches is now in dis-repair, closed until futher notice. Their new road is a super highway bought with TV money.

Posted by ebresnahan on February 16, 2007 at 7:39 PM

The retirement of our college sports mascot (Chief Illiniwek) did NOTHING to improve the lives of the Native American people nor did it in any way improve race relations for any one else on our campus or anywhere else. I believe in the long run it has probably made it worse ... That is what happens when the "few" try to control the Majority. You can't take (or threaten to take) anything that was so close to peoples hearts and not expect "retaliatory (sp)" rhetoric.The Chief symbol meant "Pride - Strength - Loyalty - among other things" to so many thousands of people and they all can't be so totally wrong.

This is truly a sad day for many.

Posted by ilpakmay on February 16, 2007 at 8:18 PM

As all alums I am saddened by the loss of the "Chief", but I was expecting this day to come. What hurts more is that he was suppose to be retired in a dignified and respectful way, celebrating the years of tradition that was a part of the Illini Tradition. But instead the Board of Directors chose to quickly enforce this and have his last performance be at a basketball game less than a week away that is not even nationally televised. How can the Board say they allowed the fans the chance to send the Chief off with respect and dignity? They should at least wait until the first game of the football season when more fans would be able to attend with more than a five day warning.

If this is the Boards idea of Dignity and Respect, the University is in trouble.

Posted by Louie on February 16, 2007 at 8:36 PM

What a mistake the University of Illinois is making. As an alumni I am devestated. Chief Illiniwek is a tradition which cannot be eliminated. What a shame future generations of Illinois Alumni will never get to experience one of the greatest college traditions.

Posted by mlhllnd on February 16, 2007 at 8:39 PM

To DEB

Could you please cite your source for the proposed EU bill that would not honor a degree from the University of Illinois? The University has one of the strongest EU academic partnerships in the country. Maybe you just heard it from a friend...

Posted by thatguy72 on February 16, 2007 at 8:45 PM

this is a shameful day for native Americans. This has been nothing but a personal vendetta against an institution who has done nothing but honor the spitit of the native Americans. To uphold the criteria of even being considered of Chief is above all common levels of decency and respect for a given ethniticity. To use the old excuse of portraying hostile misenterpretation of native American for our students sake is garbage. If this is true then I want all native Americans to look at themselves in the mirror and cut your braided ponytail off, hide your torquoise and take your buckskins down from the wall because you don't want to offend and portray a hostile image to the children. Next, close all native American burial grounds in which it is ok to display your ancestors bones for profit. If you really have an agenda then take down all the caricatures of these hideous totem poles spread throughout areas of native American history. And finally why not go after the "redskins" in Washington? I was there the day of Chief Fools Crow and was over by swelling emotion for the native Americans and its brotherhood with the U of I. It is all over now for a handful of activists with a vendetta but you have disgraced your ancestors and have disgraced hollow ground.

Posted by honor9chief on February 16, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Bring back Wampum and Mupmaw! Maybe they'll be able to talk the Chief into coming back too.

Posted by hsmith on February 16, 2007 at 9:20 PM

How hypocritrical of the NCAA to "look the other way" about FSU when the only difference between the two situations is that FSU admittedly pays off the Seminole tribe and the NCAA believes such payoffs negate any hostile/abusive connotations of the savage Chief Renegade symbol. I live in Florida and all I hear and see is that tomohawk chop and their infernal chanting. But that is all OK isn't it, because money talks and the NCAA is so corrupt it can't think or see straight. What a bunch of baloney. Shame on the U of I administration for caving in so easily. FSU fought back and won. Why didn't we try harder to save this great tradition? What wimps!!!

Posted by Lanse on February 16, 2007 at 9:22 PM

For those who attended the STOP Forum held at Foellinger Auditorium.... the work goes on.

The elimination of the U of I racist mascot is only the beginning. Much remains to be done in our community to address racism, oppression and privilege.

Students Transforming Oppression & Privilege

COALITION DEMANDS

FEBRUARY 1, 2007

We demand that the UIUC Administration facilitate the unconditional removal of "Chief Illiniwek" and eliminate the use of American Indian imagery.

* Eliminate the term "Fighting Illini"

* Remove all "Chief" iconography from the University of Illinois including items for sale at the Illini Union Bookstore

The work goes on!

Posted by jank on February 16, 2007 at 9:39 PM

Hooray!!! Now the University of Illinois can enter the 21st century with pride and dignity, having finally abolished the use of this racist mascot. All over this country--everywhere except in this community--people have looked at the U of I with ridicule and disgust for continuing such a demeaning, bigoted portrayal of Native Americans. But now, that is ended. Now the U of I is truly a great university for standing up against this injustice. Thank you!!!

Posted by RDN on February 16, 2007 at 9:58 PM

Jank- As you say, "The work goes on!". At what point do we rename the state of Illinois? While we are at it, at what point does any word in the English language derived out of the Indian heritage get changed?

What were the Illiniwek, if not "fighting"? Granted, they were not the best fighters, so is your leftist organization seeking a change to the 'Slaughtered Illini'?

Posted by mbeesley on February 16, 2007 at 10:14 PM

Jank, you are making my point for me and you do not even realize it.

The "work" of which you speak has not done a single thing for Native Americans. On top of which, should you accomplish your goals as listed in your previous post you will still have done nothing for Native Americans.

I am going to get myself into sooooooo much trouble for saying this so anyone who is easily offended should probably stop reading now . . .

***COLLEGE MASCOTS ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF RACISM***

Chief Illini has been in existence for only 80 years, and the worst atrocities ever perpetrated against Native Americans (there have been many) happened before the creation of The Chief.

My own ancestors stumbled off a boat in a drunken Irish haze without a penny to their name. They were subjected to all manners of injustice and ridicule, and worked menial jobs for subhuman wages. There is a college mascot named for them, and he is a lepercaunish green suited top hat wearing guy who does not look anything like my family. My ancestors could not have afforded such a suit and hat, and as hard as they worked they probably had very little time for sports or fighting.

Despite these inaccurate stereotypes, the mascot at Notre Dame remains in place. I'm not a lepercaun, I don't own a green suit and top hat, and I doubt that people who enjoy sporting events at Notre Dame think that I am a lepercaun. This incorrectly portrayed version of my ancestors has not caused widespread confusion about me nor has it been a source of embarrassment or anger for my family. I do not feel as though persons of Irish descent are being slighted by this fictional caricature of The Irish.

If you want to do something to help Native Americans, do something meaningful with your time and effort. I would suggest getting involved with a construction project on a reservation or assisting in lobbying efforts for pro Native American legislation. Fighting against fictional characters is an absolute waste of time.

Posted by MGranse on February 16, 2007 at 11:57 PM

Here's a quote from the judge who ruled in the hearing today for the law suit brought forth by the current Chief.

"The University of Illinois has chosen a course of action," Jones said. "They could have tackled the NCAA head on and sued them, taken risks. Instead, they chose, apparently, to try and succeed through the appeal process. Apparently, they have chosen to comply with the NCAA."

He went on to say.

Jones was critical of the NCAA, saying that its enforcement, so far, of its own policy appeared to be hypocritical.

"It's an easy sell that enforcement of the policy is arbitrary and capricious," the judge said.

"They don't wish to associate with members who use Native American imagery, unless, of course, they do," Jones said.

No doubt about it. Our University leadership is weak. Like the judge said, they could have tackled this head on, but they didn't.

North Dakota tackled it head on and they received a court injunction allowing them to host post season NCAA events until this is resolved in court.

Here's the icing on the cake. Last Fall, the Illini women's soccer team was denied the right to host post season games. Guess where the Illini women ended up playing? Florida State!!!!

Posted by IndyIlliniFan on February 16, 2007 at 10:30 PM

LOYAL CHIEF FANS PLEASE BOYCOTT SECOND 1/2 OF GAME WED. U of I needs to know the REAL majority.

Posted by BigD on February 16, 2007 at 10:50 PM

It's a *mascot*. It's a guy in a costume. This particular costume offends the people it's supposed to represent (i.e. Native Americans) so what's the big deal about getting a different costume?

Seriously. There are more important things to worry about than the Chief. You can always get another costume.

Posted by popefelix on February 16, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Thank goodness this is over and done with. Let's please involve ourselves with the great issues of our day in the world, to say nothing of UI faculty/student retention, the huge deferred campus maintenance bill, and grad benefits/stipends, to name but a few. It is absurd that a major research university has had the stigma of this spectre hanging over it for years. Now let's get on with it!!

Posted by ddf1972 on February 17, 2007 at 12:07 AM

Hooray for the victory! But we cannot and will not stop here. We must continue this might until the use of "Fighting Illini" no longer disgraces this world class institution (and let us not forget its the school that's important, not the [T]hief.

Good look scraping all those "[T]hief yesterday, today and forever" stickers off those vehicles. (BTW that was also the mantra for segregation).

I couldn't be more proud to be a (current) student at this university, and I couldn't be more proud of the courage displayed by a previously disgraced Board of Trustees.

But we must continue the good fight to rid our school from such a despicable name, "Fighting Illini."

Posted by Sagacious on February 17, 2007 at 12:56 AM

might=fight; its=it's; typos, so don't bother with comments

I'm just so excited to have won this battle for all my colleagues who have worked so hard over the years to see this day finally arrive!!!

Congratulations comrades!

Posted by Sagacious on February 17, 2007 at 1:00 AM

"What a sight it would be if EVERYONE in orange leaves the hall next Wed. after the Chief at the half. The U of I wants to say farewell to the Chief. Out of respect for the Chief, it would be neat to show them life without Illini fans for the 2nd half. Ill not attending anymore games."

Posted by BigD on February 16, 2007 at 7:23 PM

Reply: No one will see your proposed walk out anyway. It's not on television. It might make page 3 of the N-G sports section.

Posted by Sagacious on February 17, 2007 at 1:03 AM

I'm really, really happy to see the "Cheef" go. (So is my eighty-four-year-old aunt, by the way, who thought that ridiculous display stank the first time she saw it fifty years or more ago.) And, no, I'm not going to "honor" it with the correct spelling, since it was about as Native American as Cheez Whiz is cheese. This was never more than a white person's (tasteless) fantasy of what American Indian life represented, as shown by some comments here that suggest that white people rightfully "own" the image of a people who can't maintain it properly themselves. Brother.

It was also extremely irritating to me to hear constantly that this was an issue only for "outsiders"--i.e., those pesky black people in Chicago and Springfield, I suppose, who according to Loren Tate "introduce race into the issue" apparently just by TWB (talking while black), not to mention Indian groups themselves. This is an internationally recognized university, after all, drawing its staff and its students from all over the world, and not--shocking though this may be to some, I know--just an excuse for the Greater Champaign-Urbana Football Club and Tailgating Society.

Anyway, I come from the same kind of humble Champaign family who make up the bulk of the "Cheef"'s supporters (judging by the predominance of old beaters and trade vans among the vehicles sporting pro-"Cheef" stickers) and went on to earn three degrees from this university, including a PhD, so it's also just not true that even the locals all "luuv" the Cheef and that all of us who opposed it came from "outside." But I was brought up to think that if the people you claim to be honoring tell you they don't feel honored, common courtesy says that's the end of it. (You also have to ask them directly through proper channels, and then listen to what their organizations decide--no sneaking off to anonymous polls in Sports Illustrated as if "real" Indians can't possibly wear suits and sit on the boards of their own organizations.) They actually still hold their heads up in the modern world, you know--amazing, isn't it??-- and now at long last so can the U of I.

Posted by 17771aa on February 17, 2007 at 1:05 AM

Keep up the good fight! I'm proud of everyone who has held the line against this type of racism. Mascots are for rallying your team, not trying to "educate" fans, both sober and drunk, on a culture that you obviously know nothing about. A non-Indian dressed up as a Native and flying through the air at halftime teaches NOTHING about the Native culture . This would be comparable to me watching the Vikings mascot Ragnar and learning about the Scandanavians, or watching a leprechaun (which doesn't exist, by the way) and learning about the Irish people, it just doesn't happen. To the leaders who led the charge on this change, Wopila! THANK YOU!

Posted by Plainswarrior on February 17, 2007 at 1:09 AM

And one more thing, Fighting Illini fans, www.ncai.org, all but a handful of these 500+ federally recognized tribes DO NOT have mascots/logos imitating them, yet they are still there, go figure. I guess you can survive without honorthechief people after all.

Posted by Plainswarrior on February 17, 2007 at 1:14 AM

Don't worry, the walls around the University of North Dakota are coming down, too.

As a Native American, this is a PROUD day to be Indian!

One less white person imitating what they think we Natives do. One less stereotype that will be swept into the history books.

Maybe someday Native Americans will not be look upon as figures in history books, like your soon to be gone chief portrays us, but rather as educators, doctors, lawyers, business owners, and in all other professional fields where Native people can be found.

Now, at least at the University of Illini, Native people can finally say "I am not your mascot!" Hopefully that happens sooner than later here in North Dakota.

A little FYI for your Fighting Sioux fans, the Sioux (Lakota, Dakota, Nakota) Nation were here before, during, and long after you told to quit calling yourself the Fighting Sioux, and no, nothing about my culture is taught at their intermissions, either.

Posted by Plainswarrior on February 17, 2007 at 1:30 AM

If they have known about this decision for at least a year, why in the world didn't they make it public last year, and give the Chief the proper farewell and dignity in the end of the tradition? (Recall last Fall when the Chicago media reported that the Chief was officially done, the BOT denied it)

Posted by ralexander on February 17, 2007 at 3:06 AM

I understand many people will be disappointed by this decision. It is difficult to let go of an established tradition. However, the world has changed and so must this great university. The Chief created a climate of discord for many members of our community. It did not bring this community together rather it divided the community. It saddens me that people would think of withholding donations to the university because of this decision. Such an action is petty, shallow and spiteful. It reminds me of a five year old holding their breath because they did not get there way. Those who love, respect and are loyal to this institution will not allow this decision to compromise their support of UIUC.

Posted by irish56 on February 17, 2007 at 3:07 AM

As a '66 grad I have painfully watched as this important symbol has been dismantled over the years. I'm not sure why the word Illini disappeared from team uniforms, but it is bittersweet to see that it may be returned. They're taking away my Chief - they can have my diploma back.

Posted by LLTC on February 17, 2007 at 5:16 AM

To all of you who are pleased with this, I am ashamed of you all. To think that only the simple minded people in the community feel that the chief is not racist you are wrong. Everywhere I have gone over the last 5 years proudly wearing a chief shirt or sweatshirt, etc. I have stopped people and asked if they found this offensive. The resounding answer was no. People across the country know what all this is about, and rational people know the respect that goes with the symbol.

To all the students that are members of STOP. Spend mommy & daddy's money a little better. If you think Champaign Urbana is filled with racism and hotility, then you need to open your eyes. As someone who has grown up in Champaign, attended the U of I, and now lives on the East Coast, you have not seen anything yet. You kids have such a concieted sense of entitlement that you have the right to not be offended. You could not be further from the truth. In the REAL WORLD, there are always going to be things that offend you. The best advice I can give you to survive in the real world once you are done wasting your parent's tutition money is to decide what truly is offensive. If something threatens you physically or emotionally, then maybe it is i offnesive. If you got roped into a protest because your girlfriend or roommate said join me then you are a simple monded drone. Enjoy your career at Burger King, because that is where you are all destined to end up.

Posted by karlyn1219 on February 17, 2007 at 6:26 AM

Plainswarrior... how about taking some pride, and show us how an Indian acts? All we see is discord, poverty and gambling insitituitons. At least the Chief was a since of pride for a lot of people, and we did not see him as an indian. he was bigger than that

Posted by karlyn1219 on February 17, 2007 at 6:28 AM

It is a SAD day for the U of I..What a shame a few idiots rule. It was a honor to watch the chief perform, I alway got chills. I grew up in CU, a lot of locals from Urbana were the Chiefs, it was as HONOR to be chosen. I WILL NEVER ATTEND ANOTHER BASKETBALL OR FOOTBALL GAME AGAIN, NOR WILL I DONATE ANOTHER DOLLAR.

Posted by Skoeberlein on February 17, 2007 at 6:47 AM

I am having a difficult time understanding this pseudo-attachment to the "Chief". Most of you are only concerned with selfish reasons for keeping this nonsense alive. The Chief is going away, GET OVER IT and move on with your lives. You care nothing about others and you are only concerned with power and ownership. This was the philosophy of the European settlers who killed the Native Americans and robbed them of their land, women,and resources. They were pressed into remote areas and placed on resevations.These same settlers advocated slavery and domination of women. We love to talk about tradition, and disregard the real history. The chief is an insult. A Native-American tribal leader has been reduced to a Mascot prancing around at half time shows. One writer said it was honor to be chosen as a chief for one of these shows, how so? How can you honor something that is dishonorable. What if the University's new mascot was called the European Manipulator and his half time performance show depicted him killing people and raping women, how long do you think that would last. The story is different when something is offensive to you. You would want something to be done about it, Would'nt You?

Posted by DemiTasse on February 17, 2007 at 8:30 AM

Sagacous,

I can understand your feeling about the chief but what is your problem with the term Fighting Illini? Illini is a derivation of Illinois and Fighting is term that is used every day indicating your efforts to achieve a goal. You really must explain yourself.

If Fighting Illini is truly wrong then so is the name Illinois. Maybe we should rename the school the University of Nothing......

Posted by Louie on February 17, 2007 at 8:41 AM

Once again political correctness and a population minority rules. And once again the current university officials are behaving like the bureaucratic lapdogs they are.

The school could have fought the good fight. It could have stood up and said 'enough of this absurd whining and wailing' by supposedly injured select interest groups. But no, the university lies on the ground, bares its neck and whimpers '"we're sorry". This was a truly pathetic performance by a group of self-interested politicians who call themselves higher education administrators.

Posted by jmayer on February 17, 2007 at 8:52 AM

Thinking about what the replacement would be for "The Chief," who, as an alumnus of the university, I remember as always being held in the highest regards, I am not sure he can be replaced. I remember my first basketball game and the reverence other students had for "The Chief." New students were coached to respect and honor "The Chief." In many ways, he embodies school spirit. Perhaps the best way to transition into this new era is to continue the music -- just as before -- but without "The Chief" and envision his spirit -- and that of the school -- before us, but only in our minds. A fitting tribute to the symbol which will only be there in memory and spirit. This would serve not only as a memorial to spirits of the past, but amaze visitors in the sense that Illini Spirit continues and strengthens even beyond the loss of a enormous symbol of the school.

Posted by ChicagoLooper on February 17, 2007 at 9:02 AM

Plainswarrior... If you are so offended by indian acts and stereotypes being used as symbols of institutions, why did you choose your Username...Plainswarrior?? You show your own hypocrisy and ignorance better than any symbol can. How can you honor yourself by being called Plainswarrior? I get images of red men being warriors. That offends me.

Posted by ILINI69 on February 17, 2007 at 9:03 AM

I was hoping that all of you that have invested hours eliminating the Chief could now turn your efforts to Sparty and Purdue Pete.

How terribly disrespectful. How unfair for decendents of men who used to make boilers and Spartan warriors to have to live with the mockery at Purdue and Michigan State home games.

How offensive to suggest that all boiler makers have or had big heads. Mascot, symbol, costume- it JUST doesn't matter, this is so wrong; it must change. NOW.

Please double down your efforts and head to West Lafayette; then to East Lansing.

Posted by uofimort on February 17, 2007 at 9:47 AM

As for the University, great universities teach how to think not what to think. Since we are now told what to think about Chief Illiniwek, we are no longer a great university. For our moral guardians, the goal of diversity is the expansion of opinions, not the contraction of ideas. If the purpose of a symbol/mascot is to bring honor, even if misguided, then it cannot be racist be definition, since racism is based upon hatred. I suggest that the anti-Chiefs look in the mirror, it is you who interjected racism into the debate&it is you who spew hatred. You got what you wanted, the Chief is gone. By the way, now there is no motivation to continue discussion about Native-American issues on campus. Good plan? It feels for many like the loss of a family member, having not had the opportunity to say goodbye (unless you are fortunate enough to have a basketball ticket). Chief Illiniwek was a long and proud traditional and symbol for the University, and will be missed by the overwhelming majority. As for me, NO CHIEF&NO MONEY!

Posted by illinijd76 on February 17, 2007 at 9:47 AM

Sagacous,

As an alum, you better hope that you never come in front of me for an interview. Your whiny left-wing extremist attitude will only have you flipping burgers and serving me lunch once you graduate.

Wake up kid and realize that the world is not filled with hate. It is left-wing zealots like you that will not let hate die. The reason why is you get your jollies off of these tyes of things. Once hate dies (which it would if idiots like you would stop) then what are you going to do?

I am sure your parents are proud that you are spending thier tuition payments worrying about this instead of doing what you are supposed to do and that is getting an education.

Posted by karlyn1219 on February 17, 2007 at 9:58 AM

The use of Greek names as mascots is racially offensive and demeaning to Greeks. As an animal lover I am against using animals as mascots; PETA where are you? Let the lunacy continue with the politcally correct crowd; abolish all mascots and symbols.

The NCAA played the money card and the esteemed Board of Trustees acquiesced. This decision was not unanimous. Money talks in the end.

Posted by cbebt01 on February 17, 2007 at 10:03 AM

An Open Letter Penned to University of Illinois Board of Trustees:

February 17, 2007

Chairman Lawrence C. Eppley

Board of Trustees Office

352 Henry Administration Building, MC-350

506 South Wright Street

Urbana, IL 61801

(217) 333-1920

Dear Chairman Eppley:

As an alumnus of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences (1996) and an avid fan and supporter of Fighting Illini athletics, I am deeply disturbed by 02/16/07's decision to cut ties with Chief Illiniwek's performances during athletic events. What disturbs me is not the decision to "assassinate" Chief Illiniwek to appease the NCAA Executive Committee (the NCAA has continued to misinterpret the true meaning of the Chief over the years and the NCAAs hypocrisy only angers me more in that certain Native American "mascots" are endorsed by the NCAA, most notably the monetarily lucrative "Seminole Warrior" of Florida State University, but I digress), but the principle reason your board has removed Chief Illiniwek.

According to your letter dated 02/16/07, Assuming the announced changes are affected and assuming such use does not reoccur, the university will be in full compliance with (NCAA) policy, the letter stated. Accordingly, the policy will not preclude the university from hosting or participating in NCAA championship events, should the university be otherwise eligible.

Thus, UIUC has not removed Chief Illiniwek due to the usual argument that the removal is necessary to maintain the integrity of Native Americans as a respected culture, but for the assurance that UIUC will now become a host of various NCAA championship events; the Board of Trustees has chosen the almighty American dollar (revenue the university will gain as a result of hosting NCAA championship events), NOT Native Americans cultural integrity. This is blatantly obvious.

Moreover, since it seems that the filling of UIUCs coffers is the order of the month, this alumnus will effectively terminate his membership to the UIUC Alumni Association, thereby discontinuing contribution of funds to UIUC, will not purchase any NCAA approved UIUC Fighting Illini merchandise, will discourage talented high school athletes against applying to UIUC's athletics programs due to UIUC's lack of integrity by folding under the pressure of the NCAA Executive Committees hand of judgement (after all, what message does your decision to terminate Chief Illiniwek for NCAAs tournament money machine send to a young person regarding maintaining an established and revered tradition?), and will no longer view Fighting Illini athletic events either live or televised until UIUC rescinds it removal of Chief Illiniwek and restores Chief Illiniwek to his former status. These actions gore my very soul for I love UIUC athletics, but my actions are necessary to maintain the legacy of Chief Illiniwek.

I am but one voice of millions of supporters of Chief Illiniwek worldwide. I have little doubt that the Board of Trustees will now face the brunt of their folly and greed in that many an alumnus will come out of the woodwork in outrage. I certainly hope UIUC is ready for the backlash of 02/16/07's decision. Furthermore, I hope the Board of Trustees will soon come to its senses and restore Chief Illiniwek to his previous status and stand up to the tyrannical NCAA Executive Committee.

Thank you for your time in reading this letter and may your decision to remove Chief Illiniwek be rescinded with stealth.

Sincerely,

Michael A. Ragucci

Teacher of High School English and Coach of Athletics in the New York City Department of Education

**I ENCOURAGE ALL PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH THE CONTENT IN THIS LETTER TO LET UIUC OFFICALS KNOW THAT THE JUDGEMENT SURROUNDING THE CHIEF IS UNACCEPTABLE AND MUST BE RECONSIDERED IMMEDIATELY. I GRANT FULL PERMISSION TO ALL PERSONS ENRAGED BY THE JUDGEMENT TO FORWARD CONTENT HEREIN TO ANY PUBLIC OFFICIALS/CONCERNED PARTIES. IN ADDITION, WRITE YOUR OWN LETTERS OF OUTRAGE TO BE SENT TO THE NCAA EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AND THE UIUC BOARD OF TRUSTEES. THIS DECISION HAS OPENED A DOOR OF ORWELLIAN PROPORTIONS; IT MUST BE CLOSED BEFORE OUR FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS REGARDING THE USE OF ALL UNIVERSITY MASCOTS/TRADITIONS ARE TAKEN AWAY PURELY IN FAVOR OF CORPORATE LOGOS/REPRESENTATION. M.A.R.

Posted by UIUCAlumnus1996 on February 17, 2007 at 10:13 AM

I am a fan of the Chief and the Fighting Illini, but, we all knew this day would arrive. This issue will tie up a courtroom somewhere and I support that. Now let us look at a real problem. I am the parent of a U of I graduate and I have remained silent far too long. The trustees (trust, huh!) and the chancellor are some of the weakest people in Champaign-Urbana, in my humble opinion. Along with the governmental bodies of Champaign, Urbana, Champaign County, the state of Illinois and the United States they have forsaken many students lives by allowing drug and achohol abuse to run rampant on and off campus. Drug and alcohol abuse breeds sexual misconduct (pun intended) and STDs. These things are not widely reported, unless an athlete is involved in some kind of mess and then look out, cause the world will stop spinning. Yes, the students are supposed to be all grown up and responsible at the ripe age of 18 and if we can allow them to be blown up in war, let'em have drugs and alcohol! To be continued, if I may?

Posted by JUSTaDAD on February 17, 2007 at 10:20 AM

Why do we allow this to continue. I really feel like a failed parent for sending my child to school at the U of I. My experience is that all anyone cares about is money from the top to the bottom. Being a party school brings students, allowing underage drinking brings in tax money and students, allowing the drug use brings in students and helps them not care anymore about what they are wasting. All the sex, you know what that brings, high paying medical jobs and students. I am thankful that my child and I are very open with each other and I was at least able to give advice and at least hope they took it. The stories that I have been told about life on campus make my stomach churn and the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up! We should all be ashamed of what goes on down there and elsewhere, because we allow it to happen. Some of it, because of tradition, I hear. Please, let's stop ruining lives for the sake of tradition and money. I think we have more to worry about, besides the Chief, but I would donate to his legal defense fund and not one other thing in Champaign County. These are just my opinions and my view of school life there and the Parkland students are in the same boat. I know some of them, too. Please, I am begging the people in power to clean this mess up! Please!

Posted by JUSTaDAD on February 17, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Once again political correctness and a population minority rules. And once again the current university officials are behaving like the bureaucratic lapdogs they are.

The school could have fought the good fight. It could have stood up and said 'enough of this absurd whining and wailing' by supposedly injured select interest groups. But no, the university lies on the ground, bares its neck and whimpers '"we're sorry". This was a truly pathetic performance by a group of self-interested politicians who call themselves higher education administrators.

Posted by jmayer on February 17, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Yesterday was a sad day for the Council of Chiefs. To a person, we are quite proud of our association with the University and the Illiniwek tradition for these past 81 years. All should know that we consistently endeavored to portray Chief Illiniwek with Honor, Dignity and Respect. Our hope is to keep the Spirit of the tradition alive and, to that end, will work with the University to help shape a new tradition. Thank you to all who have cherished and supported this tradition, especially the many Native Americans whom we have counted as friends.While the Chief's performance will be no more, our hope is the Chief's memory will live on.

Posted by FormerChiefIlliniwek on February 17, 2007 at 12:03 PM

Seriously, if they knew last Spring, why not make the announcement earlier and give the CHief a proper farewell tour last Fall?

Horribly managed by the administration.

Posted by ralexander on February 17, 2007 at 12:25 PM

By the way has anyone noticed that when it comes to the NCAA, that they too are all about the mighty dollar. Nothing but a bunch of people who claim to be professionals. Professional at what? They claim to be a group of folks that work for the membership. Not hardly, more like dictators and do not kid yourself, it is all about money! Go to www.ncaa.org and read thei overview and scroll down and click on "Our Mission". See for yourself, 350 paid professionals, for what? To better organize college athletics. With all the resources at the schools today you would think that the ADs could e-mail each other and maybe have a quartly meeting or something, you know. We do have other means to communicate in the 21st century. When the NCAA was formed in 1906 things were different. Today, I say they are a thing of the past and they need to go. The conferences are already in place and all they need is to maybe hire one rep for each one and cut the NCAA out of all the money. The same is true for the grade and high school associations, time to cut the overhead. I realize I am ranting and I apologize. As the saying goes, "Where is the sanity in all of this?"

Posted by JUSTaDAD on February 17, 2007 at 12:27 PM

Certain people "stacked the deck" on the board and then knuckled under to the NCAA and their misguided intrusion. The majority opinion is not served in this case...what a travesty that hay shakers like Kaufman can orchestrate this kind of injustice. The university administrators showed no spine in the way they have handled this situation. You've tarnished "The True Illini Spirit"...I hope you can live with it !!

Posted by mustwhiz on February 17, 2007 at 12:42 PM

This may be one of the worst sports years in Illini history. First, a bad football team, then a basketball team that seems almost cursed, and now the spineless Board of Trustees knuckling under to the thugs on the NCAA Executive Committee. Unfortunately, this will not placate the anti-Chief people. They will just find something else to whine and snivel about.

Posted by dgcrow on February 17, 2007 at 1:34 PM

Saddest day ever to be an Illini. I think many of us Chief supporters deep down thought that this day would eventually come, but to have it announced on a Friday, in the middle of a crappy basketball season, that it's all over next Wednesday, particularly when it appears Mr. Eppley and crew made the decision last spring, is a total crock.

If it had to come to this, why not have a farewell tour next football season? What's the hurry? We've talked about this for, what, almost 20 years? I hope to God this was not to get a lousy NIT game--it's bad enough we even have to think about that. Just like any beloved family member that is terminally ill, you want to spend all the time you can with them before they go. Eppley never gave us a chance. Not only is having it all come down this way a spineless, cowardly move on his part, but it's pretty dumb too--think about the economic impact of a farewell tour for Chief next season. Boy, I really feel good about the this board as the stewards for my alma mater.

Growing up in Central Illinois, and as active undergrad and alum, this hurts me and some of us more than others. It is indeed like a member of the family has died. And it also feels like other members of the family (the board and its chair in particular) have turned on us by not being up front in the handling of the timing of the announcement. It's like thinking you know someone for years and not knowing them at all now.

Mr. Eppley and the rest of the board, I've lost my trust in you. For someone who says he loves the Chief so much but the University more, you could have handled this situation much better. You're not going to like the fallout. I've not only lost my trust in you and my alma mater, but I've also lost my checkbook. I won't be the only one...nice going. We deserve much better.

Posted by dntown on February 17, 2007 at 3:51 PM

Chief Illini,the Fighting Irish, the Florida Seminoles, and yes, even the Duke Blue Devils (yikes, satanic worship!) are so offensive. I don't know what I was thinking when, for 20 years, I stood in reverence for Chief Illiniwek at halftime as he danced. And while I am confident it brought chills to a vast majority of those of us in the stands, I now see that we were wrong...we heathens just weren't as enlightened as the more socially refined practitioners of political correctness amongst us. So I say, off with Chief Illini and let's replace him with a good old fashioned halftime book burning! The UI library stacks should carry us forward for another 81 years.

Don

Posted by wfffdfb on February 17, 2007 at 4:09 PM

I grew up in Champaign-Urbana where my father was a U of I prof and started going to football and basketball games in 1955. I can remember thinking how great it was that we had a heroic symbol like the Chief,while other schools had mascots like a gopher,a buckeye,a hoosier,or a boilermaker. Later,I thought of the Chief as standing for honor,unity,loyalty,and determination. I would challenge anyone to find a more unifying symbol in the college environment than Chief Illiniwek standing before 70,000 people with arms raised before the U of I Alma Mater. No question the NCAA - as the new voice of moral hypocrisy-put Illinois in a tough position. Do they or the "activists" really think that the demise of the Chief is a great step forward for Native Americans? Most people at Standing Rock or Pine Ridge could probably care less. If you ask me, it is a big step backward.

Posted by rbriscoe on February 17, 2007 at 5:47 PM

Soo, whats next? I guess the Fightin Irish of Notre Dame fans better start saying their goodbyes to their beloved mascot. Afterall it is degrading to Irish Amercians! Growing up I was mesmorized by the Chief of the Illini and all that I thought he stood for. Now he is gone.

I am a fightin Irish and I am mad. Thankfully I am not so easily offended as others.

Posted by telulah on February 17, 2007 at 7:18 PM

If we weren't heading to the NIT this year in BB, this would have waited.

Posted by dtjack on February 17, 2007 at 7:38 PM

As an alumni, I have lost all respect for the University of IL, the IL State politicians, and the board of trustees. It is a disgrace the way they have let the NCAA and a self proclaimed moral few decide the fate of the Chief.

I hope the anti-chief group and the NCAA will now turn their attention to causes that will really make a difference. Maybe we can become the Illinois Pansies or the Illinois Jellyfish, you know something without a spine. PamM

Posted by shelman on February 17, 2007 at 7:46 PM

Bravo RBriscoe! I couldn't agree with you more. I don't see how anyone who has witnesed the Chief's performance could label it as offensive and hostile. I think it truly reveres the Native American and will always remain a proud symbol of the University of Illinois. Remember the Chief is not a mascot, he is a symbol. That's where the NCAA got it all wrong. It's just a shame it had to come to this. But Florida State's sterotypical portrayal is not offensive or hostile. This is the worst kind of double standard I have ever seen. Shame on the NCAA.

Posted by lconroyl on February 17, 2007 at 7:54 PM

So when the anti-Chiefers don't target anything else, what will you "PC police complainers" whine about?

I think it's interesting people only complain about political correctness when it's something they disagree with. Is it political correctness if a pro-Christian group sues to have Christ represented fairly? No, because you agree with that. But it's the exact same thing.

I will miss the Chief, but I am glad to see him go.

Posted by ralexander on February 17, 2007 at 8:04 PM

ralexander: Suggest that you read the posted comments. Not one of the pro-chief posters uses "political correctness" as an argument. Yours is the only one that even mentions it.

Posted by dgcrow on February 17, 2007 at 8:46 PM

I am not going to repeat the same thing that everyone else has. I am not happy about the way things happen, but what can one say, money still turns the world. I think the Chief should have been changed in a way to make both sides happy, but again money is a factor. If we don't handle issues like this one better, America will keep sliding down a path that is not a good one. Wake up both sides and everyone in the middle. Look back at our past and the worlds past, and one can see where this country is going if issues like this keep getting resolved like this. Go Fighting Illini! O wait, cannot say that. Go Fighting Illinoisans! O wait, cannot say that either, still has an American Indian name in it. Go Fighting Columns! O wait, fighting sounds like we are war like people. Go Standing Columns! Yeah that one should not offend anyone. O wait the Greeks, Romans and others who use Columns might get mad. How about Go!

Posted by commonsense1138 on February 17, 2007 at 10:45 PM

Can anyone say MONEY. I think the U of I should change its songs to include any song that has the word money in it.

Posted by commonsense1138 on February 17, 2007 at 10:48 PM

Some have incorrectly linked Chief Illiniwek with the nickname Fighting Illini. Though many assume that both are based on Illinois' Native American traditions, the name "Illini" was first associated with the school by the student newspaper, which changed its name to The Illini in the late nineteenth century. (The paper is now called The Daily Illini.) The addition of the adjective "fighting" originated about five years before the appearance of Chief Illiniwek as a tribute to Illinois soldiers killed in World War I. Similarly, the on-campus football venue, Memorial Stadium, was named in honor of these fallen soldiers.

Posted by commonsense1138 on February 17, 2007 at 11:30 PM

There are several things to address here. First of all, it is perfectly okay to withhold money from the university on the basis of the Chief's termination if you considered the Chief to be an integral part of the fabric of the university. And that is exactly what the Chief was to me. I was proud to see the Chief. He made me actually think about Native American life before it was swiped from those who inhabited our land. It was a tribute that sent chills up my spine. He represented everything unique about my university. And without him, I feel we've been redefined and with the fabric woven to conform to all the other "schools" out there. The pride I felt has been zapped. Because the administration failed to support the vast majority of students and alumni that are in favor of the Chief and, instead, bow to the bullying of the NCAA, I choose not to support the university at all with my funds. I don't support an administration that I don't trust or respect.

That leads me to point #2 -- the U of I as it relates to the NCAA. Folks, there is a difference between "service" and "compliance." The NCAA told the U of I what the ramifications were if the Chief remained. They did not force our administration to eliminate him. And he shouldn't have been eliminated because the people that the administration "serves" are the students and alumni. The administration "complies" with the NCAA, but it "serves" the student body and alumni. Or at least that's how it is supposed to work. The administration was entirely dishonorable to the Illini nation by choosing a path that was not in the will of the vast majority.

Third, the removal of the Chief does nothing positive for Native America. For some, and definitely not all (see Florida's Seminole tribe), the termination of the Chief removes something that they saw as offensive. But it won't force progress. The U of I is being asked to be a scapegoat for an entire American heritage that stole land from Native Americans years ago and ended up shoving them onto reservations in the middle of nowhere. I wonder how vocal those non Native Americans in the anti-Chief faction would be if they were asked to return to the native lands where their ancestors migrated from while their house and land was returned to the Native Americans from whom it was stolen in the first place? Chief Illiniwek did nothing to mock Native American history. He pointed us to a heritage that existed in the land that we took.

And last of all, Larry Eppley cannot be considered a supporter or fan of the Chief. A devout "true" supporter doesn't turn his back on something dignified when the going gets tough. Larry Eppley caved in because he had no spine. A real man fights for honorable things. Larry Eppley displayed little more than cowardice. He's an absolute disgrace.

Posted by kohlfam92 on February 18, 2007 at 1:00 AM

I would just like to hear and try to understand why is is OK for Florida State to keep showcasing their savage mascot, Chief Osceola who throws down a lighted spear in the middle of the football field while riding the horse Renegade. The only reason the the NCAA "looks the other way" is money, and lots of it. The NCAA does not really care about "hostile and abuse images" as they so self-righteously proclaim; rather, it is those dollars that the Seminole tribes receives that allows those native americans to not be "offended" by the use of their name and grossly done "indian imagery". The NCAA does not seem to understand or care that there are no living "Illini" (native american) descendants walking around that can be on the financial take and therefore proclaim their support of their state-based name for "mascot" purposes. Shame on anyone who can't see through this charade of pseudo morality. I am deeply disappointed in the U of I administration, including AD Ron Guenther and President Joe White who seem to work from a position of short-term political correctness and reactive fear rather than one of moral conviction and bold leadership.

Posted by Lanse on February 18, 2007 at 7:50 AM

Loren, I don't think you've ever shared the depths of your personal feelings the way you did here.

Great stuff -- thank you from the depths of my Orange & Blue heart. Fighting Illini must be preserved.

Posted by jeffh on February 18, 2007 at 10:51 AM

I have admired and respected the history and tradition of Chief Illiniwek since my parents first took me a to a football game in 1955 when I was 8 years old. The image of the Chief standing before 70,000 people with arms raised before the Alma Mater is one of unity and loyalty I will never forget. I hope Chief Illiniwek will face the Assembly Hall crowd after his last performance with the traditional arms raised salute to what I am sure will be an enthusiastic thank you from all present.

Posted by rbriscoe on February 18, 2007 at 10:55 AM

Get over it folks. The decision is finally.

Time to move on.

Posted by gdkgeo on February 18, 2007 at 11:23 AM

I have lost all respect for the University of IL, the IL State politicians, and the board of trustees. It is a disgrace the way they have let the NCAA and a self proclaimed moral few decide the fate of the Chief.

I hope the anti-chief group and the NCAA will now turn their attention to causes that will really make make a difference, poverty, steroid use, graduation rates, racism, etc. As a graduate of the UofI, I have always felt such pride and allegiance to the university but not any more. I am totally disgusted.

Posted by pamm on February 18, 2007 at 11:28 AM

I love the Chief and the honor, loyalty, and tradition that he stands for. For me he was the University of Illinois and made me proud to be a part of that community. I am saddened beyond words at this decision. The University has now lowered itself to the level of all other universities in the nation by given up a proud heritage.

Posted by bfair on February 18, 2007 at 12:17 PM

I'm sure the fact that the men's basketball team will be playing in the NIT (most likely) is a factor as well....it's sad that it takes something like that in order for the tradition to come to an end. He had a good run, but it's time to move on.

I also find it disgusting that you think that the next step is attacking the Three-in-One and the term Illini. Perhaps you should consider actually *talking* to the anti-Chief groups instead of making broad-based generalizations about a group whose objectives you clearly know nothing about. Doing that, however, would not be consistent with the News-Gazette's long standing tradition of not having any objectivity.

Posted by justinm on February 18, 2007 at 12:37 PM

I want the tradition back, and I mean the real tradition, not the version put in place over the last 16 years. This really started down-hill when Terry Shepard (Mort Weir's "hitter on Indian questions") and Gary Smith supposedly fixed some shortcomings in the Chief Illiniwek Tradition, a written description of the tradition handed out to applicants for the role of Chief. That was all in the name of accuracy and sensitivity. Horse you-kow-what! We need to call it what it was back then and still is: Illinois' "redskin tradition". What's wrong with that? And speaking of horses, I want the homecoming parades back with the Chief on a horse. I think Dan Maloney would look just fine on the back of a horse. Goodness, but havent we become so proper and correct that we cant even play Indian.

Posted by opinions on February 18, 2007 at 1:18 PM

My husband and I (both multiple UI degree-holders) never stopped giving money to this university although we disagreed very strongly with the Illiniwek sports show, which was never anything but an embarrassment to a university with a worldwide reputation to uphold. People who now claim to be withholding money from the university because the so-called Chief is going are only displaying the same arrogance they did in the face of Indian disagreement with the use of such a mascot in the first place (just try finding any links to any actual American Indians' views on the Honor the Chief web site, for example), and the same ignorance of what a university is all about.

Posted by 17771aa on February 18, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Wow,... you've expressed my feelings better than I ever could.... Thanks Loren... I used to get a lump in my throat as a young boy whenever I was fortunate to get to an Illini game, and I still do...

and whenever I forget how the Chief made me feel... I'm going to get out this column and read it once more time... Thanks again.

Posted by Frank Dutton on February 18, 2007 at 2:10 PM

I am ashamed of the University of Illinois. The Chief is much more than a "mascot". He is a respected and honored tradition who has spanned generations. Do they really think that will end just because he won't be allowed to perform during halftime anymore? I will continue to watch his old performances on the internet. I will continue to purchase more and more Chief merchandise and apparel, and I will continue to display and wear it proudly as I'm sure other Chief supporters will. I'd like to see someone try to stop me from doing that! The legacy, spirit, and tradition of Chief Illiniwek will go on through all of us who have held him in such high regard for so many years, and he will forever be the honored symbol of the University of Illinois no matter what.

Posted by alicat on February 18, 2007 at 3:26 PM

I graduated LAS 1960. I am really sorry that the U of I bowed to pressure. The tradition of the Chief never demeaned or put down Native-Americans. I believe it promoted them, exalted them, made us proud to be from a state that used the Chief to urge us to higher standards off the field of athletics as well.

The NCAA is full of hypocrites. How can Florida State have a mascot ride out on the field and throw a spear into the ground and still get a free ride?

The Chief was not a mascot but a symbol of greatness, strength, courage, desire.

I am so sad!

I was born, lived, taught and grew up in Illinois. I know the Chief!

Larry Rauch

St Augustine, FL

Posted by lrauch on February 18, 2007 at 4:26 PM

It's hard to tell which was more shameful -- the 1920s minstrel show that somehow made its way into the year 2007, or the inability of so many people, John Foreman included, to see how shameful the minstrel show was.

Now, characteristically, there's a search for the scapegoat. Emil Jones? Professor Kaufman? The NCAA? How about this one instead -- the "Chief" was a blatantly racist display whose time had passed, so the true scapegoat was Father Time for not letting U of I drift along forever tied to a Hollywood parody "Injun."

The University has made a great step forward. Congratulations.

Posted by zemblan on February 18, 2007 at 4:52 PM

The "high UI administrator" mentioned above was snippy to the point of rudeness at a meet and greet the night before Illinois' blowout of Cal in Berkeley. Since I had worked with (and grown to admire) Chancellor Aiken while on campus, it was doubly disappointing to have such a negative encounter with his successor. I wasn't surprised by her later actions vis a vi the Chief.

Posted by jgrout on February 18, 2007 at 5:20 PM

I am a current student at the U of I. I am not from Illinois, but I understand the depth of feeling for the Chief. He is a symbol of the University to many. I come from a town named after an Iroquois tribe, and from a university that formerly had an American Indian as its symbol. We now have a new mascot, and while it is not as stoic or strong as our former Warrior, our school is acceptable to the NCAA, and more importantly, to our Native American community.

Unfortunately, having an American Indian symbol is no longer acceptable in this day and age, and leaves the University open to derision. Coming from outside the C-U area, I heard many negative comments about the Chief when I made my decision to attend the U of I. This is detrimental to the overall standing of the University of Illinois. Despite the feeling of support for the Chief, people should put aside their personal feelings and realize that supporting the University means recognizing the Chief for his history, and embracing the new future with a positive attitude.

Posted by illinifan27 on February 18, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Common sense did prevail. You should be sad that you don't recognize what a hurtful thing in which you've participated. ALL THAT MATTERS is that Native Americans find the Chief offensive. You may as well be going on court in blackface. Take the extra time you'll have now that the racist symbol of the chief has been banned, and examine your ethics, and how this whole ordeal has actually affected people besides white suburban kids who think they're doing Native Americans a favor by honoring a tradition they find offensive.

Posted by isaacarms on February 18, 2007 at 7:05 PM

The NCAA has eliminated a physical portrayal of Chief Illiniwek, but the Chief will remain an indelible part of our memory and heritage for those of us fortunate to have attended or been part of this great university. The reverence and respect shown by 76,000 students, alumni and friends while our Chief raised his arms to the fall sky is a memory that will never leave our minds.

Our Chief did more to raise a positive image of the American and Midwest Indian than any other Indian symbol of our generation. It is a tragedy the vocal minority and politically correct elite doesn't see it this way. Maybe they will understand when they wake up and see the only contemporary icon our children's children will associate the American Indian with will be gambling casinos and Chief Wahoo. What a shame.

I hope this University will retire Chief Illiniwek and recognize the beloved Chief is the only deserving mascot for all time for this great University. There can be no replacement--anything less would be to blaspheme the legacy of one of college's greatest symbols and institutions that meant so much to its alumni and community.

Posted by mcdchi on February 18, 2007 at 7:52 PM

Why is it that groups who preach political correctness are only in favor of freedom of speech and freedom of expression when it serves their own purpose?

Rather than try to change the world, why not simply stop looking for reasons to be offended by it?

Freedom is a tricky thing, folks. In order to have the right to be free one has to acknowledge the right of others to be free. Sometimes another person's expression of this freedom is going to yield words or actions that might not be in agreement with the way we practice our own freedom. When this happens, we can choose to be offended or we can just IGNORE the words or actions that offend us.

People really need to learn how to do this or they will never be happy, and here in America people SHOULD be happy! We are generally able to live our lives without sectarian violence in the streets or widespread disease and famine. People in other parts of the world are not so fortunate to have a college mascot as the worst thing in their daily existence. If we have to actively seek things about which to be offended, then our lives must be pretty good. In other parts of the world, one would not have to be so creative in order to find ways to become offended.

Jesse Jackson once spoke of "Common Ground." We all pay the same price for gasoline, get clobbered every year by the IRS, and get parking tickets if we are anywhere NEAR campus. THIS is our "Common Ground" and THESE are the things by which we should ALL be offended. Instead, we ignore the substantive issues and focus on a

Posted by MGranse on February 18, 2007 at 10:17 PM

(oops, posted before I was finished, sorry) . . .

[continued from previous post]

Instead, we ignore the substantive issues and focus on a college mascot.

In the months leading up to the decision to retire The Chief, it would seem that a college mascot in Central Illinois was to blame for all racism in North America. Now that "The Enlightened" have successfully ended racism forever, it will be interesting to watch what problem they pretend to solve next.

Posted by MGranse on February 18, 2007 at 10:22 PM

justinm, sadly, you are misinformed. spokespeople, specifically Jan somebody, for the anti-Chief forces have already stated that they are planning on trying next to eliminate the term 'fighting illini.' There is not rest for the perpetually offended. The News-gazoo is exactly right in that the students, alumni and citizens of Illinois and the vast majority of opinion was not given the consideration it should have been given. I have no Indian blood that I'm aware of but, as a native of Illinois and having lived here all my life, the Chief IS my heritage too.

Posted by chieffan on February 18, 2007 at 11:20 PM

Oh how the tears of regret well in my eyes at hearing about a white boys chagrin for not being able to dance a disrespectful jig for the adoration and entertainment of the masses. How will we ever move on?

While many adore the Chief, I was one of the "vocal minority" who was utterly disgusted by the Chief and all that he stood for--the outright, crass, and egregious disrespect of a group of people masked under the thin veil of an "honorable tradition". What a load of crap. If I never see the Chief perform again it will be too soon. I've tried to be sensitive to the affections of Cheif supporters, but their adamant support of the Chief proves that they refuse to be sensitive to my desire to not be humilitaed by a the foolishness of a caricature dancing for a stadium full of paying spectators. In fact, I resolved to be as cold and insensitive as the Chief's many supporters. With that I say to the Chief, "Sit down and shut the hell up once and for all. You will not be missed."

Posted by Truth on February 18, 2007 at 11:29 PM

Hey Isaacarms....are you a racist or what. You used a racist epithet there. "white suburban kids"??? Are you kidding. Your stereotyping all 'white kids' as suburban is dehumanizing! The correct term is European American, and not ALL European Americans live in the suburbs. Believe or not, they also don't believe all American Indians live on a reservation and I doubt ANY would ever refer to an American Indian as a "red kid". And most ARE native american, because their ancestors came over in previous genrations. They are not naturalized Americans, but NATIVE Americans. Get your terminology straight please!

Posted by Mikki on February 18, 2007 at 11:52 PM

With all the N-G articles and feedback boxes, it's hard to really process all this in a cogent matter. While I understand to some extent feelings of Chief supporters, and generally do believe the way decisions on contentious subjects are meted out in today's political atmosphere to be less than compelling, I do feel compelled to say the following:

Many intelligent people have feelings on both sides of this subject. I feel that the Chief issue has become a surrogate for many things for many people, far transcending the issue itself and representing unfulfilled hopes, dreams, aspirations, as well as a representative of that which is, by any right-thinking person's estimation, unacceptable - that is, a surrogate for oppression, and lack of tolerance and respect for others.

In my estimation, this debate has expended much money, newsprint, and man-hours debating something that is doomed to be a zero-sum game.

Now the end is here. It is within UI's authority to make the decision it made, and further litigation, threats, etc. serve no long term purpose.

To those who threaten to dissociate themselves with the UI, alumni association, donations, and the like, I am disheartened. Whether or not these people have contributed with time and money in a substantive way in the past is only part of the equation. More sad is the notion that this sort of punitive behavior will benefit anyone. It will not.

I, for one, because UI is doing what needed to be done, if not in perhaps the most carefully thought out way, can live with myself just fine. And once my doctorate is completed soon, (after 2 other UI degrees), I can look at myself in the mirror knowing that what was done is right, as I make a contribution to an institution that resisted the myopia of doing things the way things have been done for the last 80+ years.

Posted by ddf1972 on February 18, 2007 at 11:54 PM

The ývictim groupsý and their partners, the NCAA, the national media, the feel good good liberalsand those afraid of being called ýinsensitive, bigots, racistsý have won and the Chief is gone. For those of us who saw the good in the Chief, we will miss him. I personally live in California and havenýt seen the Chief in 20 years so it wonýt be much of a physical loss. The loss is one of respect ýand hopeý for our legal system, for my University, for the press, for the Native Americans and for the feel good liberals involved in this politically correct decision.

It seems that the anti -Chief people are of many minds and goals. Some believe that this is really a good thing and that good will come of it, at least for Native Americans. Some of the ýliberal do goodersý who feel morally superior for having supported the ýpolitically correctý point of view are satisfied to just be able to say ýyes, I fought to have that symbol of racism removedý. The true right or wrong of the issue is far less important than being found on the perceived ýcorrectý side of the issue. Another group of anti-chiefers donýt believe and never have believed that banning Chief Illiniwek would result in a significant improvement in the lives of Native Americans. These people are more concerned with revenge and general power plays than real improvement. They will shortly be looking for their next target and the list of targeted issues will never end as their anger and bitterness towards the European Americans will never end.

So, what good, if any has come out of this? Not justice. with the victory of a minority of ýoffended peopleý over the right of ýfreedom of expressioný? First, Chief Illiniwek was never ýabusive or offensiveý to anyone with normal levels of sensitivity. Many Native Americans are so full of bitterness and anger that they become hypersensitive and single minded in their determination to find insensitivity and offensiveness in every word thought or deed of the white population. For the ones who truly were offended, I once again sayý..the world is full of things that offend me but I donýt feel that I have the right to intervene and take others rights away to impose on everyone my ýopinioný that something is offensive. This whole concept that a personýs opinion about another personýs expression in dance, writing, art etc. should trump the artistýs right to express them or the audienceýs right to be entertained is a dangerous street to go down. Since offendedness is a matter of ýopinioný, not fact, and for every action and deed there is someone who is offended, there is no end to how much power and control the offended can amass. It just takes a bully like the NCAA or a misguided judge to take mine or YOUR rights away because some one else (of special status) complains that they are offended.

Maybe this whole thing would have been worth it if at least some understanding and bridge building had come out of it. This is where the battle (getting rid of the Chief) was won by the anti-chief group but the war is being lost. Consider this: Maybe we as a society are too hyper-sensitive and maybe we spend too much time looking for slights, insults especially on the basis of our ývictim-groupý mentalities. The energy and time would be better spent, bettering ourselves as individuals and building bridges between people based on our common attributes and history rather than our divisions. It is ironic to me that the very individuals that profess they are trying to ýfixý problems and heal racial, religious, etc. hostility, are the ones that cant stop stirring the pot, dragging up old wrongs until all we can focus on is how much we cant stand each other

I hear the anti-chief crowd arguing that getting rid of Chief Illiniwek will somehow increase respect for Native Americans. In reality, this whole fight has decreased respect for Native Americans. The fact that the anti-chief crowd chose to name call, vilify their opponents, rely on cheap ývictimý excuses, staged riots, and employed other unprofessional tactics such as labeling a proud and decent University as racist has not gone unnoticed by those who heretofore had a great respect for the Native American population. This was a wake up call to those of us who had a lot of respect for historical Native Americans. That wakeup call was to realize that just as we, the living descendents of those who treated the Native Americans so inhumanely, are not our ancestors, the living Native Americans are not their ancestors either. That Native American culture is gone. As much as todayýs Native Americans fight to hold onto that image of dignity, self reliance, sacrifice, integrity and courage of the Native Americans of 120 years, the Native Americans of today are as far from those people as the white man is. It is perhaps this loss of their larger than life historic character that is fueling the obsession with controlling the ýimagesý and ýsymbolsý so that they always reflect ýpositivelyý on Native Americans (as perceived by Naýve Americansý). I would thing that todayýs Native Americans would be more concerned about the loss of the inner spiritual life and value system of their people than about some symbol that offends them. Why worry about the ýwhite college boyý who is attempting to pay honor to Native Americans (even if he fails in THEIR eyes he was not failing in the eyes of the majority) when the whole culture is falling apart? How does ýauthenticityý and Indian sacred dances and religion figure into the casino life? If Chief Illiniwek is an affront to the sacred life of the Native American, what is the Indian casino that pollutes the sacred shoreline of Lake Superior in Grand Marais? No other group would have been permitted to desecrate that beautiful ýsacredý area just to make a few bucks. If the great Chiefs: Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Red Cloud, Kicking Bear, Cochiseý who faced death, pain, sickness every day in their attempts preserve their way of life, were alive today, would they be proud of how the mighty Native Americans got rid of Chief Illiniwek? OR WOULD THEY BE ASHAMED to see how the courage, pride and honor and dignity of the Native Americans 120 years ago has deteriorated into the petty, whiney, victim and dependent mentality (dependent on giveawayýs and special treatment based on guilt and pity )and money grubbing behavior we see today?

As for the liberals, they have actually won somethingý a way to feel superior and have their ýwhite guiltý massagedý without really sacrificing or doing.

Sometimes our egos get caught up in "helping" people and we begin to believe they canýt make it without our programs, pity and excuses. Although fighting to get rid of the Chief is a feel good thing for liberals, they are not doing Native Americans any favors by reinforcing their (Native Americans) victim mentality and by reinforcing the idea that something like a dancing historical symbol (even performed by a white college boy) is able to hurt Native Americans or affect their ability to thrive in life. Maybe the best thing we can do for people who have been vicitimized is to reinforce the thought and belief and confidence that they can overcome the past and create a good future and that they have the power, by using their abilities, character, faith, and courage to achieve those dreams, even if the whole world stands against them...

What these liberals and all of us who want to ýhelpý can do rather than battle these paper tigers like the Chief is:ý treat all people fairly and look beyond ethnicity to values and behavior. We can acknowledge past wrongs without ruminating on them and without taking or assigning responsibility for these wrongs based on our group status (unless we were personally responsible as individuals.). I intend to do these things despite my frustration and anger at this victim empowered process because I truly want to see ýGod crown thy good with brotherhoodý from sea to shining sea.

Posted by LYN on February 19, 2007 at 12:54 AM

The Chief was banned because he was perceived to be abusive and generally demeaning to the image of Native Americans (NAS). To who and how? The answer is clearer if we divide people into three groups. #1) those who heard about the issue but never saw the Chief. How can they find it demeaning if they never saw it? 2.) Actual observers who felt that the performance was demeaning. This group was largely made up, I assume, of NAs and those generally sensitive to NA issues. This group is not likely to change opinions of NAs over a performance that they deem derogatory and non authentic. If they dont like the performance they can do what most people do with things that offend them, avoid it...3.)Those who watched the performance and enjoyed it and were pro-chief. This group has overwhelming testified that the chiefs performance increased their respect and admiration for NAs. Instead of contributing to an atmosphere of intolerance towards NA the Chiefs performance had the opposite affect on this impressionable potentially racist group #3. On the other hand, the removal of the Chief definitely took away a positive symbol of Native Americans in the eyes of those in group three. Further, the undemocratic process by which the Chief was removed and the tactics used by the anti chief crowd definitely resulted in lowered respect and and increased animosity towards NAs by many in groups 3 and 1(who observed the illegitimate process even if they didnt see the Chief. So in the end hostility and intolerance have actually increased with the banning of the Chief???Do you really think you can disenfranchise 60-80% of the people and not have increased hostilities (which I personally regret)? good job NCAA and intolerant anti-Chiefers.

. I wonder if it will be worth it however since so many of the give away, special rules like casinos, special treatment like the NCAAs rulings on Chief Illiniwek and preference programs for Native Americans are fueled by guilt and pity for past wrongs. As Native Americans bring more and more victim checks to the bank to be cashed the balance in that account is diminishing. It would be wise to spend the balance on something more substantive and profitable than Chief Illiniwek

Posted by LYN on February 19, 2007 at 1:00 AM

It is this kind of effort that thrills me about Zook...the question is can Weber do the same?

Posted by dallen on February 19, 2007 at 8:50 AM

In time, Emil Jones will be gone and his personal agenda of political appointments along with him.The NCAA will be replaced by an organization,that is less concerned about policing student athletes lives and eliminating traditions they have no right to,and moreso about integrity in college sports.The Board Of Trustees will be be populated with individuals concerned about the University and its traditions,and less with statewide political agendas.The Chief brought integrity every time.Its something Emil Jones and Stephen Kaufman need to learn something about.If Mr Jones and Mr Kaufman,are so concerned about Native Americans,ask of them to display were they have contributed to the betterment of that community,financially,or otherwise!!!...The Chief WILL return !!!! HAIL TO THE CHIEF !!!

Posted by FearTheChief on February 19, 2007 at 8:53 AM

and further,Mr Kaufman seems to think we wont notice his seemingly heartfelt support for the anti-Chief minority as what it really is: A thinly veiled crusade for tenure.Both tenure and Kaufman should be retired,post haste! HAIL TO THE CHIEF !!!

Posted by FearTheChief on February 19, 2007 at 9:42 AM

I certainly hope there is no further yielding. This is not like the Stanford "Redmen"; the Chief, alas, had to go, but don't let anyone try to argue that anything else is remotely racist or hostile or whatever

Posted by jjohnson on February 19, 2007 at 9:58 AM

hey dallen, Weber doesn't have the luxury of risking a scholarship the way Ron does. When are you going to back off the guy?

Posted by jjohnson on February 19, 2007 at 10:05 AM

I caught a few minutes of the news highlighting the most recent Chief performance, and focusing in on the crowd reaction at the basketball game. One young girl was openly weeping. The "Chief" himself was breathing heavily through his nose and making quite the stern-looking face.

Honestly, the whole thing cracked me up. Both sides take themselves entirely too seriously. If Bucky the Beaver were to retire next year, would people weep? I doubt it. Well, maybe, since some people are just nutty like that.

But really, as someone who has unfortunately had the dubious "honor" of witnessing the Illini mascot go into what some people call a dance, but more closely resembles a protracted and painful series of uncontrollable muscle spasms, I have to say thank goodness he's being retired. Maybe someone can finally prescribe some medication to treat that problem.

Posted by Nonesuch on February 19, 2007 at 12:55 PM

As someone who moved here three years ago from a state with a large number of Native Americans, this whole chief thing has revealed a really ugly side to the people of this state - meaning the white majority, who seem to think that because they run things, right and wrong don't matter because they are in the majority. If a majority want to keep a white guy dancing around like a goosesteping bunny as a mascot representing Indians and those same Indians object, well, too bad. Call them names, vandalize their propety and abuse them at every opportunity. Try being honest for a change - you couldn't care less about Indians, you just want to keep this ridiculous spectacle because its tied to your sports teams - who cares if it offends. They are not PC people who object, they are real life Native Americans, and their dances and costumes are a huge part of their spirituality. All you know of Indians are casinos - try reading a book about them or go see a real-life powwow like the Gathering of Nations. But you won't because you don't care about Indians, which means your claims of 'honoring' Indians is totally without merit. The actions of fans, this newspaper and the officials of the University toward them have been a disgrace in this controversy. It's not too late to change but the immature and bigoted reactions of Illini fans prove they won't - and that the protestors were right all along.

Posted by Steve1us on February 19, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Excellent and compassionate comments by Coach Weber, whom we are lucky to have.

Posted by jeffh on February 19, 2007 at 2:31 PM

Loren, this is just amazing -- moved this transplant to New York from Central Illinois almost to tears. Those teams Harry coached were special indeed (I have your article on them & how Central's gym is named from him, from a few years back) and I doubt any reasonable person would argue that the slush fund prevented Harry from being regarded on the same level with Wooden, Claire Bee and others. I don't include the racist from Lexington -- whose name I won't mention here -- in that company.

I could write much more, but I'll conclude here. Thanks again Loren, for this and so many other observations.

Posted by jeffh on February 19, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Great article, Loren. I can remember some of the great offensive teams we had in the 1950's under Coach Harry Combes. The fast breaks with Bill Ridley were a thing of beauty. John Kerr's sweeping hook shots bordered on the unbelievable. Later, in the 1960's, Dave Downey made some incredible moves for a guy that probably was not all that athletic. Offensive basketball flowed better back then. The defense was not as intense, but it did exist. Also, players were much better free-throwers back in those days. And, we were a bona fide national basketball power under coach Combes.

Posted by Lanse on February 19, 2007 at 4:03 PM

What a pathetic bunch of crybabies. To anyone outside of here, the chief lovers resemble the southerners who wish for a return to the "glory days" of the antebellum South. To anyone who has seen authentic Indian dances he looks ridiculous. For those who get all weepy over this dumb mascot, they need to get a life. Illinois has earned a terrible reputation because of this, and if you don't care about that, or you don't care what Native Americans want, then you have no business commenting on this subject.

Posted by Steve1us on February 19, 2007 at 4:12 PM

steve, now who is the mean spiritted intolerant stereotyping insensitive Jerk??? Nothing new from the anti chief group. What is apparently above your ability to grasp intellectually is that this was bout far more than a "white kid' dressed up as an "indian " and dancing. it was about freedom verses tyranny of the few based on an alleged "vicitm" status. I am not "weepy" I have not seen the chief forover twenty years.I sm unhappy at the ignorance and self centeredness that has developed in our country over the past 30 years so that being a "victim" counts more than anything. Life is hard and we are all hurt, humiliated and discriminated against...for being to fat, for not being smart enough, for not having social intellignece, for being to tall if a female and too short if a male and on and on and on. I am 25% Black, I have Parkinsons disease and my son is part CHoctaw. SOWHAT. The native americans today are not their ancestors, they have not suffered like their ancestors did and they do not have the dignity,integrity or fierce indpendence that their ancestors did. So I will not get all wheepy about thesse poor vicims, who attempt to parlay the true suffeings of their long dead relatives into some sort of freeibes, special treatment and status today.

Posted by LYN on February 19, 2007 at 7:57 PM

Thanks, Loren, for reminding me of those entertaining teams Harry put on the floor, How I enjoyed Tom Schoendienst along with my bag of Chesty Potato chips, Bonsalle to Ridley and "here come the Illini".

Bruce Babcock

Bloomington, IL

Posted by bbabcock on February 19, 2007 at 9:49 PM

Are we to Dismiss Chief Illiniwek...and now the suggestion of The Fighting Illini Mascot Name,

also? I understand both sides of the issue, but personally, I always Admired The Chief, and felt that it was an Honorable and Proud Tradition. I

was very surprised when I heard that Native Americans were offended. Why wasn't all of this

Negativity, about Chief Illiniwek, brought up

long before now? Could it be, partly, for Recognition? I feel very sad, that the Chief, has

to go. Has anyone thought of NOT DISMISSING the Chief, but CHANGING THE CHIEF'S IMAGE? That should be taken under consideration, before going through with this Drastic Measure, satisfying BOTH Native Americans and Illini Fans, alike. Yes, their should be Respect, a coming together, not a One-Sided Decision.

Posted by mlck2007 on February 19, 2007 at 10:12 PM

First: Did I miss the WHY for Sheppard's Leaving. An interview? Questions for the bosses?

Second. What's up with Smith being off the team. Ongoing investigation just does not get it.

Where is the reporting?

Posted by jhanselman on February 20, 2007 at 11:23 AM

No respect for Bucky?

We'll, I guess they'll have the perfect opportunity to earn all the respect they'll need this week. Big games at MSU and tOSU should tell us all we need to know about Wisconsin.

Posted by jmeans on February 20, 2007 at 1:16 PM

I truly regret what has happened to Jamar. I am sure this was unintended. However, now that it has happened, I think Coach Weber needs to seriously consider not bringing him back next year for several reasons. It will be a tough decision which I would not want to be forced to make. We all desire what is best for the Illinois basketball program in the long run. We all want Illinois to be an elite program, not only in wins and losses on the court, but also with respect to academic and citizenship criteria. Go Illini and may God bless Chief Illiniwek. May your tradition live on in our hearts and minds as we "march down life's pathways".

Posted by Lanse on February 21, 2007 at 4:21 PM

LAST DANCE:the qualities I always admired in historical Native americans, dignity, courage, fierce independence, spirituality, leadership were shown this night by a "white college kid" dressed up to honor (in his mind -and the audiences) the great people that are no more and the great University o f Illinois. If the chief haters had shown some of these qualities during the past 20 years of fighting this issue, maybe the loss of the Chief wouldnt have been so bitter. Lynne

Posted by LYN on February 22, 2007 at 2:51 AM

Note the way aggressive Florida State University defended its use of Chief Osceola on horseback at football games halftime celebrations and how they forced the NCAA to back down and approve this chief. Compare this with the University of Illinois lukewarm, half-hearted, defense of Chief Illiniwek. Whats over is over, and Illinois now needs a mascot. We need a funny cartoon character to clown around at halftime, and we need something everyone will agree is appropriate. What could be better than to turn to the Popeye comic strip. Not the Popeye character or Olive Oyl or Sweetpea or Pappy or Bluto. No, the appropriate mascot for the University of Illinois is Wimpy.

Posted by grampsjp on February 22, 2007 at 8:51 AM

The tradition is not in the mascot. It is in the school, the sports teams, and most of all the students. It has nothing to do with a mascot that did not represent the people of Illinois or the university. Be proud of being a U of I student or fan, not of a mascot that dances around during the halftime of sports events.

Posted by pekingsaint on February 22, 2007 at 9:50 AM

Yesterday was a dark day in so many ways. It showed what power a relatively small group of poorly informed people can have, particularly when their message spreads to those who may be even less well informed. I have not walked in the shoes of a Native American, so I cannot pretend to know what prejudice or racism they may encounter. What I fail to this day to understand is what it was about the portrayal of the Chief that was so offensive. IF the complainers had done any homework at all, they would have found that the concept of the Chief was founded in authenticity, and that there was never a hint of anything undignified about his performance. The dance, though magnified for the setting, was learned from Native Americans. The original Eagle Scouts who along with Ray Dvorak started what became a tradition, created the Chief because of their LOVE AND PASSION for the Native American customs and history. What better way could be found to make 70,000 people stop and remember if only for a few minutes, what existed here before the white people came? So, fine...You got your way. Money talked, and a tradition that meant something to the majority fades into the past. Just like the Illini. They are all dead, and have been for decades. They didn't complain. What happens next? I suspect that those who are entitled to proudly claim Native American roots may find that although stereotyped before, they were not disliked. Now, they can be stereotyped AND disliked. If paying respect to an extinct culture was and is offensive to those with roots to the ancient past, then it is truly time to get out the rest of this cake so it may not only be posessed but also eaten. Since permission was never asked, then it's time to rename not only the State of Illinois, but any town, county, ...any entity at all using a reference of native American namesakes. Take all of those names, along with our memory of the Chief, and put them in a boat, row it out onto Lake Michigan, and dump them all into the....wait a minute. Hmmm..Lake Michigan...needs a new name...something generic...maybe Lake Daley? Am I mad and somewhat sarcastic? Yup. Oh...and one other thing. About the request made by the family of the Native American who provided the outfit worn by the Chief that the University return it to his family....that, in and of itself seems to perpetuate another stereotype we all know from childhood.

Posted by illiniband on February 22, 2007 at 10:22 AM

I have to agree with illiniband. I hope that all Chief supporters will not take the retirement of the Chief as final. I have signed petitions and will seek out those who are still trying to preserve the Chief and do whatever I can to help. I agree with some of the responses I have seen in that we need to get the Trustees elected again rather than appointed. It is time for the majority to stand up and honor our Chief.

Posted by deannad on February 22, 2007 at 11:12 AM

The hyprocrisy in Illini land is overwhelming. You want people to be sensitive to your feelings about the demise of a mascot, while you have been totally insensitive for decades to a people who are among the most downtrodden on this planet. illniband writes about a small group of uninformed people ... hmm .. ever been to a powwow or seen an authentic Indian dance? Know any Native American's personally? Ever read any works by Native American authors about their traditions, religion, history? I bet few pro-chiefers can answer yes to those questions, but they set themselves up to say what 'honors' Native Americans. People like iliniband will never get it because they don't want to, and will look for any excuse to keep a 'tradition' going that honors Indians in the same manner minstrel shows honored blacks. When their flawed reasoning and 'facts' are shot down, pro-chiefers can only respond by calling people names like thugs and PC police. But if you step back and take an honest look at things, this protest was led by real, live authentic Native Americans, who were courageous in taking a stand that brought them nothing but harassment and abuse. The behavior by the pro-chiefers has been petty, childish and yes in some cases bigoted. This whole controversy has given Illinois a black eye nationally, but all you care about is a sports mascot. Fine, but stop lying about your motivations. Just admit you don't care about Indians, and stop pretending this is some kind of honor. For those few who really believe they do care, then start to learn about the great cultures found in our Native history and you will come to understand what a ridiculous and sad spectacle the chief was.

Posted by Steve1us on February 22, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Illiniband,

While you make many valid points, you have also not "done any homework at all." To wit:

* You say: "Just like the Illini. They are all dead, and have been for decades." This is incorrect. The Illini were a confederation of tribes, and descendants of that confederation live on in the Peoria Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma; forced to relocate there in 1857. When native remains and artifacts are found, the state of Illinois contacts this tribe.

* You say: "If paying respect to an extinct culture was and is offensive to those with roots to the ancient past, then it is truly time to get out the rest of this cake so it may not only be posessed but also eaten." Friend, you're forgetting one slightly enormous detail - certain native cultures are extinct because of European colonization. Of course that was 250 years ago; of course you and i had nothing to do with it; of course it's time to get over it. But having a holy figure from that culture dance around a basketball court is just adding insult to a centuries old injury.

As for grampsjp, the Florida State situation is simply not analogous to the University of Illinois. The Seminoles exist, they control their image and branding, and they have given FSU permission to continue using a Seminole as a mascot. Is there money involved? Yes. Is it weird and just plain corrupt that the Seminoles allow this usage for a payoff? Yes. Is the NCAA hypocritical for not pursuing FSU the way they pursued Illinois? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, you're comparing apples to oranges. The U of I was backed into a corner, and they made the best decision they could for their sports programs.

We all loved the Chief, but it was time for him to go. For many, many reasons. And both of you need to get over it; why don't you apply your energies toward thinking up a new mascot/symbol that breeds honor and tradition the way the Chief did? That's something worth working on.

Posted by ColoradoIllini on February 22, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Anti-Chief followers want the Chief gone as he offends them. Pro-Chief followers want the Chief to stay because they feel he portrays honor and dignity. These are both opinions and tradition should not be changed based on the opinion of individuals at any random time in history. 20 more years from now the area tribes may find him to be non-offensive and may even be supportive. Sorry if you are offended. I am not violating any of your constitutional rights or laws therefore your opinion is just that... an opinion. If you can't support us, then don't be involved with us in any way. We have plenty of support and don't really need. It is your constitutional right to boycott us and it is our constitutional right for freedom of speech.

Posted by deannad on February 22, 2007 at 11:37 AM

I think that Notre Dame should give up the Fighting Irish mascot in order to host NCAA events. They're basically saying all Irish are angry, short redheads, and I don't see any difference between the ND's mascot and the Chief.

Posted by auntshelly on February 22, 2007 at 11:41 AM

It is a sadder day for us Native Americans than it is for the White Chief fans. Now, because of the few politically correct "braves" among us, and their do-gooder White allies, our entire village will suffer by disappearing from the public view. Already, the American Indian is far beneath the public eye. There are too few of us left in America. We continue to battle social problems of poverty, unemployment, domestic violence, alcoholism, gambling, poor education and other issues. The public largely forgets about us. The only time the Native American is remembered is either as a poor drunk on a modern day reservation who needs the White Man's help or as a valient warrior free on the Plains fighting against domination by the White Man. Personally, I find the latter to be something far more admirable. But, now the White Man and his "brave" stooges have finally completed domination over us, completely obliterating our proud, free image so that we are only left with the pathetic image who needs the White Man's help. Don't think you are doing us any favors by getting rid of the Chief. Now we lapse into obscurity, just like the White Man has wanted for the last 150 years. All thanks to those who arrogantly act in our name. I will miss you, Chief Illiniwek, and the image of Native American honor that you provided for my children to aspire to.

Posted by NativeIllini on February 22, 2007 at 11:43 AM

Thank you NativeIllini! I have long said that those opposing the beloved Chief do not speak for all Native Americans. I intend to do all I can to keep the Chief alive. This is a sad day and to you... I apologize for any negative effect that has been bestowed upon you and your family based on your heritage.

Posted by deannad on February 22, 2007 at 11:48 AM

illiniband (a.k.a., Dan Maloney), I am Indian and my family and I are not dead. My many-greats-grandfather (Chee-Chee-Pin-Quay) was a real Chief, and was at Fort Dearborn, helping white people after the attack. You ask what was so offensive. For starters, you, as a white kid, doing a parody of one of our religious ceremonies for the enjoyment of other white people at a sporting event. That, in itself, is undignified. When we taught Ray Dvorak some of our ways, we did not know that they'd be used in such a perversion of what is ours.

You reveal your hypocrisy about 'our honor' when you speak of "a tradition that meant something to the majority." What you call 'tradition,' we see as something else that's been stolen from us and despoiled.

And you want me to "remember if only for a few minutes, what existed here before the white people came?" Son, I remember it every bloody day.

-

(And NativeIllini, your language gives you away-- you are obviously not Native. Come to a reservation and learn how we speak.)

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM

Wow, seems like the good years men's basketball has been having lately are paying off.

I do think whatever new symbol/logo the U comes up with, after a little while it too will sell well, if the teams are having success and support. Regardless of what happens with the Chief, spirit is alive and well.

Posted by itazurakko on February 22, 2007 at 1:18 PM

If the Chief has been the symbol for 81 years...and people have been so offended by it for the entire time...why did it take THIS LONG for him to be taken away? Is it really people being offended or just the University becoming like everyone else, just to be able to be involved in the NCAA events?

Pretty soon everything we know will be offensive. The only colours allowed will be beige and tan. Not even white will be used because it might offend someone Caucasian. Soon all the mascots will be oak leaves...but wait, someone might be allergic to oak so we can't use that. Actually, mascots will probably be banned entirely because someone will be offended because they think that they scare children- or something ridiculous.

Welcome to a world of beige. Where everyone everywhere is offended by everything. Good bye traditions, good bye anything that is special to everyone.

I will never forget my time here at U of I as I was lucky enough to know the tradition of the Chief. I am sorry for my children who will never know such an awesome experience.

Posted by jadealmayre on February 22, 2007 at 1:22 PM

In reading some of these responds, I am shocked to see people claim to be against racism and sterotyping of people, when I see comments calling people "white people" or "white kid." If your really want to stop racism then start cleaning up your own act and stop stereotyping as well. I am offended by your actions, now.

Posted by standsproud on February 22, 2007 at 1:58 PM

In reading some of these responds, I am shocked to see people claim to be against racism and sterotyping of people, when I see comments calling people "white people" or "white kid." If your really want to stop racism then start cleaning up your own act and stop stereotyping as well. I am offended by your actions, now.

Posted by standsproud on February 22, 2007 at 1:58 PM

jadealmayre, Why did it take this long? We did not have the political voice (read: money) as what we do now. The political reality in America is that if you lack capital, you're not heard in the Capitol.

The rest of your rant is just a straw man. And because you obviously don't know what's offensive, let me educate you.

Here's what's offensive-- being called "Timber Nig..." by white kids in my High School (1980s). Not being able to get a summer job to save for college when I was in High School because "we don't hire you people." Having my sister's white (now ex-) father-in-law tell her that her college-educated brother "will never amount to anything because he's just another lazy Indian." Having store security follow me every time I shopped when I lived in the South (1990s).

And having white people who've never met an Indian (much less been to a Pow Wow) tell me that I need to "lighten up" or that they're somehow honoring me by playing dress up in a minstrel show and making a mockery of me and my traditions. And by losing their minstrel show, that I'm somehow taking one of their "awesome" traditions.

That's offensive.

Excuse me please, but my people have become experts at knowing what it's like to have what's yours taken by another group of people. Your little racist minstrel show is not a tradition. It is (was) a pathetic display of sports bravado and cheerleading. You honor nothing of mine. We do not need white people to honor us. The only thing we want from white people is what is rightfully ours.

(Read up on the BIA and royalties owed, if you want a start.)

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 2:02 PM

standsproud, you're obviously talking about me. You're offended? You call me racist yet you 'stand proud' for a racist cariacture of me and my people? Your mock outrage is transparent and offensive.

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Grayskies, I did not say that I am standing proud for a racist cariacture. I am saying that your need to re-read what you have said and look at it through others eyes, like you are asking me. Try growing up in a society that also labels white kids as "Poor White Trash." I am saying some whites have been in the same boat at one time or another. If you are true to you words then help educate against racism instead of name calling!

Posted by standsproud on February 22, 2007 at 2:18 PM

If you are not standing proud for a racist caricature, then what does your screen name mean?

Since when is "white kid" a perjorative?

In what part of America are all white kids labeled "Poor White Trash?"

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 2:26 PM

gray skies-

I know what it is like to be made fun of for being a "nonwhite". Try being the ONLY person of colour (I am Hispanic btw) in a suburban setting for YEARS. You act like you are the only one who knows what it is like to be called names, to be degraded, to be poor.

You want to know what is offensive? Being asked if I was good at laundry or mowing lawns because I am part Mexican. I know what it is like to be denied employment or even provided with substandard employment.

My point, in above post, was that- everything can be offensive to everyone. We are just taking the steps to make the world boring and bland. Beige.

The Chief is gone. Am I happy a bout this? No. Can I see where people (grayskies etc) get their feelings of offense from- yes. Opinions differ in America, thats the joy of it....

I don't believe that it was EVER anyone's intention to be making fun or misrepresenting the Native American culture by having the Chief represent U of I.

Again, my point was- with all the regulations currently, the world will be beige with a lack of mascots due to their very nature offending someone.

Posted by jadealmayre on February 22, 2007 at 2:54 PM

"You act like you are the only one ..."

I never said that; I don't believe that. "Try being?" I don't have to; I know how it is. I've spent a lot of time on a reservation, but I didn't grow up on one. I spent most of my childhood in the Chicagoland area (Rockford, actually), where other kids thought it was kinda cool that I was an Indian. Then my parents divorced and my mother moved us to a very white town in Northern Wisconsin. As an Indian moving there, let me say that I got a rather 'frosty' reception.

My wife (who is white) is an artist. A couple of months ago, she received a commission to paint an Illiniwek logo for an alumni for his private office. She asked me if I was offended. I told her that I wasn't; it was a nice painting and I saw nothing offensive about it.

Now, even if he wanted the caricature version (e.g., the Cleveland Indians' Chief Wahoo), I believe that what people want/do in their private homes is their business. But when it comes to a public institution and a very public display, that's a different story. It may not have been Ray Dvorak's intention to make fun of us or misrepresent us, but that's what it's become.

Here's another way to look at it-- would Dan Maloney be willing to dance through a reservation in his Chief Illiniwek costume? As I'm pretty sure that illiniband is him and he's reading this, whaddaya say Dan? I'll even drive you there. If you're not willing to do it, you already know how offensive your actions are (and that may be an authentic headdress, but if you didn't earn those feathers, you have no business putting them on your head).

Another way to look at it, jadealmayre-- would you be offended if the Cleveland Browns came up with a mascot dressed as Pancho Villa and had a halftime display of marching gardeners?

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 3:19 PM

I understand your point grayskies. I really do. I am just going to stick to my previous points and continue supporting the memory of the Chief, as it is my right to do so.

:)

And if illiniband is Dan or is not Dan, I don't think it is anyone's business.

Posted by jadealmayre on February 22, 2007 at 3:28 PM

I understand your point grayskies. I really do. I am just going to stick to my previous points and continue supporting the memory of the Chief, as it is my right to do so.

:)

And if illiniband is Dan or is not Dan, I don't think it is anyone's business.

Posted by jadealmayre on February 22, 2007 at 3:29 PM

I don't understand, in the name of fairness, why Iowa was not singled out for their nickname and mascot. The name Hawkeyes was given in momento to Chief Black Hawk. Why do they get to keep their Hawkeye name and we have to do away with our Chief Illiniwek?

Posted by chonmom on February 22, 2007 at 4:32 PM

chonmom-- What is the Hawkeye's logo? Do they have a painted white kid in an Indian costume dancing like a fool during half times?

jadealmayre-- Why don't you answer my Pancho Villa question? And, as illiniband has called the people asking for the return of the Chief Illiniwek garb Indian-Givers, I think it is important to know if he's Dan Maloney-- who claims out of one side of his mouth to be honoring my people.

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 5:06 PM

White people? White kid? Ah, now who is the racist. Oh, I know I am supposed to cower and refrain from pointing out reverse discrimination...after all, that is the politically correct thing to do in society today. Not sure who's cause was served by elimination of the Chief, but I certainly know who's cause wasn't.

Posted by wfffdfb on February 22, 2007 at 5:19 PM

As I asked before-- Since when is "white kid" a perjorative?

Is there something else you'd like to be called?

Reverse-discrimination? I didn't know that I denied you a job because of your skin color. Your mock outrage is hollow and offensive.

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 5:40 PM

I guess you'll just have to get over it.

Posted by wfffdfb on February 22, 2007 at 5:45 PM

???

I think you're late for the cross-burning.

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 5:50 PM

grayskies,

While I agree with you that the whiners on here complaining about being called "White Kid" should lighten up (no pun intended)--they are "white" just like I am an "Indian"--I don't agree with you bashing me for my language, telling me to "come to a reservation to learn how we speak." I know how we speak, thank you. I didn't grow up on a reservation, but I did grow up right outside Anadarko, Oklahoma, which along with being near my people's reservation (Kiowa), is near several others too. But I worked hard to get a good education, taking speaking classes and spending my free time reading every book I could get so that I didn't sound like a "dumb Injun". You criticizing me is like poor blacks in the ghetto calling each other Oreo for doing well in school and "talking white." Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about. It is elitist and keeps our people in ignorance and poverty. you are part of the problem, not the solution. I'm not going to get into a contest with you to see who is more Native American. I'm sure your tribal number is just as good as mine. But I will get in your face anytime you say that the Kiowa nation or any other should "stay on the reservation" by "talking like an Indian" or any other B.S. stereotype you perpetuate. We have a proud history and I will never forget that, and I will never miss a chance to remind the White Man--and fellow Native Americans--of that history. Even if you do everything possible to force us back onto the reservation "for our own good" and obliterate our image from the White Man's world.

Posted by NativeIllini on February 22, 2007 at 6:29 PM

Long live The Chief. Get rid of the puppets appointed by Blagovich!

Posted by jjrepp on February 22, 2007 at 6:46 PM

NI-- LOL-- I sincerely apologize. I'm a linguist. I didn't mean that you sounded like an apple*. Quite the opposite-- your first post used language patterns common to white, blue-collar Missouri-valley-area Americans.

As far saying that I'm part part of the problem, that's the biggest load of garbage. If you've read all of my posts here, you'd have realized that I don't advocate "staying on the reservation" or any of that garbage.

And as for education, I also worked hard for my degree and about half of my cousins have post-graduate degrees.

I am also proud of our history and our traditions, which I am happy to share with white people. Which is also why I'm glad to see Illiniwek go. He didn't educate white people of our history or honor us.

If they really wanted to honor us, they'd have some real dancers, not some white kid. But they don't want that. Illiniwek was never about honoring us. It was just a minstrel show with a kid who thinks that we "are all dead, and have been for decades." Now that's ignorance.

-

*my wife called me an apple once, not knowing what the term meant-- she meant I was putting on some weight and getting a bit round in the middle.

Posted by grayskies on February 22, 2007 at 7:05 PM

We should use the flamming spear as our symbol now. It already has ncaaa approval.

Posted by bkessler on February 22, 2007 at 10:03 PM

IlliniBand is not Dan Maloney. Dan Maloney is more educated on the history of the Chief and the Illini. Clearly, Illiniband has a bit more research to do.

But what I don't fully understand is that some of you claim that the Chief (and those who portrayed him) did nothing but "mock" Native Americans and that they should have been educating people on Native American history.

What you missed, and may not be completely aware of, is that part of the Chief's "job" IS to educate people of the community about the Chief, the history and the tribes that it TRIED to honor.

The Chief is gone. We all must now move on. I don't see why everyone continues to bicker at each other about it. Yes, there are those who will forever love the Chief - let them. And yes, there will be those who will ALWAYS find the Chief offensive - let them.

The Chief is gone and no matter what efforts are made, it's a decision that will not be overturned, so it's something that people need to come to terms with.

Posted by OrangeNBlue82 on February 22, 2007 at 10:56 PM

"... part of the Chief's "job" IS to educate people of the community about the Chief, the history and the tribes that it TRIED to honor."

If this were true, it'd be noble (although, why not use real Indians?). However, even assuming that illiniband is not Dan Maloney (and I still think he is), illiniband knows Dan Maloney well. You admit that illiniband is clearly ignorant of us. Therefore you must admit that either Dan Maloney was doing a poor job of educating the people of the community, if someone who works closely with him is so ignorant, or Dan Maloney neglected his duty to educate the people of the community.

As the pictures of Dan in yesterday's Tribune show, Dan appears to have taken his roll very seriously, and seems to have worked hard in performing as Chief Illiniwek, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not say that he was doing a poor job. But rather, I'll give a third explaination-- Ray Dvorak's idea of "educating the community" fell by the wayside over the years, allowing the Illiniwek display to descend into minstrelism and parody. In other words, "educating the community" may have been in the job description, but the words ring hollow as the deeds show otherwise.

If people want to mourn the Chief's passing, I'll let them. But don't expect me to trade my relief. And I'm not happy that he's gone any more than I'd be happy to see a scab over a wound. Nativeillini may see it differently, but I never saw the chief as a symbol of our culture or who we are.

Finally, this is a sincere invitation-- if anyone wants to learn about our culture, my Tribe has an annual Pow Wow every July on the shores of Lake Superior in Baraga, MI in the Upper Peninsula. There's plenty of food and real dancing. It's a good time; we're good people.

Posted by grayskies on February 23, 2007 at 8:00 AM

It is shocking that individuals of education and maturity cling to an artifice that is symbolic for an insitution as well as a symbol of oppression regardless of how "they" interpret the symbol. The long time argument that the symbol is intended to "honor" and or "respect" Native Americans is contentious because the view is from inside. No matter how much work the portrayer does to educate, his actions on the field/court perpetuate the negative associations that stereotypes create. How one ignores this reality is beyond me. I understand the desire to hold onto something that resembles tradition, but this tradition isn't your only association with the U of I, is it? Is your collective memory of your time at the university so narrow that you assume a caricature to symbolize your affiliation with said institution? Maybe. It is ridiculous to fathom that "chief" supportors continue to believe their own rhetoric about the function of the "chief" as honorable. But, then again, you are on the inside looking in. How can anyone assume you'll see your reflection?

Posted by marceldada on February 23, 2007 at 9:13 AM

Good Riddance Chief Illiniwek

Posted by marceldada on February 23, 2007 at 9:14 AM

Have any native americans ever stepped up to portray Chief Illiniwek? If you are so truly offended that its some "white kid" dancing around would you have been satisfied with a native american chief?

Posted by illinifan24 on February 23, 2007 at 9:50 AM

"It is shocking that individuals of education and maturity cling to an artifice that is symbolic for an insitution as well as a symbol of oppression regardless of how "they" interpret the symbol."

Y'know, maybe we at Rutgers should dump the Scarlet Knight under such logic. Knights are associated with crusaders, who, after all, massacred Jews and other Christians (whom they mistook for Muslims), and they were pretty warlike (whaddyaexpect, they're WARRIORS)...

Other team names/mascots/symbols that could use tweaking:

Padres, Chiefs, Barons (an elaborate version of "Knights"), Warriors, Braves, Battling Bishops, Belles (symbolic of submission), Squaws (ditto), Bombers, Bullets, Cardinals (if clergy), Cadets, Captains (?), Colonials, Colenels, Commodores, Conquerors, Crusaders (of course), Deacons, Dukes, Generals, anything with "knight" in them, Gorillas (may be seen as racist), Governors, Ladies (symbolic of "propriety"), Lancers, Lasers, Lords, Monarchs, Monks, Mounties, Musketeers (?), Praying Colonels, Rainbow Warriors, Rainbow Wahines (?) (why not just simplify both to "Rainbow Islanders"?), Rangers, Regals, Rockets, Royal Crusaders, Savages, Sea Warriors, Senators, Soldiers, Student Princes (lords-over-other-folks), Swordsmen, Titans, Warriors, Wolf Pack, and Wolfpack (Nazis are said to have gone about in "wolf packs"). Please note that there are plenty of warrior-related imagery: this is because warriors are an example of oppression, as are governments oftentimes. On the other hand, ethnicity survives the test because ethnicity doesn't oppress. It is oppressors who oppress ethnic groups; they don't oppress themselves. War oppresses, unfortunately.

Posted by Rickyrab on February 23, 2007 at 9:53 AM

illinifan24-- I believe I suggested that. Although you'd have a couple of caveats: one, no Indian I know would wear the Illiniwek headdress as he hadn't earned the feathers; and two, the dance would be much different.

-

Rickyrab-- you've got the wrong argument. For your argument to equate, you'd have to appropriate the symbols of the conquered. For example, if, at the halftime of a Rutgers game, you had Catholic (I'm Catholic btw) kids dressed and dancing as whirling dervishes to whip up the crowd, that would begin to equate.

Also, you forgot the best sports team controversy of recent years-- PETA suggested that the Green Bay Packers change their name to the Pickers because of their name's origin in meat-packing (which, like the rest of your argument, has nothing to do with the Illiniwek controversy, save sports team names).

Posted by grayskies on February 23, 2007 at 10:28 AM

Does the NG forget how much public participation and input and interest existed when the smoking ban was passed last year? It was the highest attended city council meetings and public forums in recent memory. This is the most important issue locally and it isn't a surprise to see the paper trying to divert attention away from the fact that this ordinance WILL BE REPEALED if opponents to it are elected.

Almost all municipal races polarize or heat up around a single issue and the smoke free ordinance effects the most number of people directly thus it is logical to assume that it is the most important issue to most voters for this election (perhaps not to the News-Gazette) but then again the News-Gazette doesn't vote.

Posted by mattvarbl on February 23, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Also it is incorrect, intellectually dishonest and false to list the C-U Smokefree Alliance as an "anti-smoking group". The mission of the organization is:

"To have the cities of Champaign and Urbana, Illinois, adopt smokefree ordinances for all workplaces and public places, including restaurants and bars."

That doesn't say anything about the act or behavior of smoking itself, only that it is the organization's mission for it not to be permitted in public places such as restaurants and bars (hence the ordinance).

John Foreman and the writer of this editorial can smoke cigarettes all they wants to, just not when the rest of us have to sit next to them in a bar or restaurant.

Posted by mattvarbl on February 23, 2007 at 12:03 PM

Illinifan: As a '53 grad, I seem to recall that Illiniwek 1949-1950, James A. Downs, a graduate student in chemistry, was a Sioux Indian. He even took the uniform, summer of 1950, to his grandfather, a Sioux chief, for minor repair.

Kfus

Posted by Kfus on February 24, 2007 at 10:23 AM

There are a lot of people posting comments here who need to become educated on Chief Illiniwek. I suggest watching the DVD entitled "The Chief and the Tradition". The Chief doesn't dance around like a "goosestepping bunny". It is an authentic Native-American dance and was taught to past Chiefs directly by Native-Americans. Native Americans have honored and encouraged the University and its portrayal in decades past. One tribe even presented the University with authentic regalia for the Chief to wear at performances. The creation of the Chief was never meant to ridicule Native-Americans. It was created to honor them. Only uneducated people think otherwise.

Posted by khmn on February 24, 2007 at 2:52 PM

why is Indiana considered such a lock for the

NCAA? A loss to MSU and an Illini win @ PSU

(very likely scenario) puts us ahead of Indiana

in conf & overall record.

Posted by walker on February 24, 2007 at 7:50 PM

Why isn't Bruce Weber in the Coach of the year list ABOVE Izzo, Alford and Sampson? He somehow coached Illinois to another 20 win season following the series of injuries and distractions. He has the team playing very good basketball now, with players accepting their roles and playing extremely good defense.

Go Illini, beat Iowa

Posted by tlappin on February 25, 2007 at 9:48 AM

The results of the opportunity to practice is obvious. The passing was crisp and everyone was in sync. The interior passing, particularly Carter's nearly no-look feed to Pruitt, showed a lot of improvement. Best of all, they looked like they were having fun. The defense continues to be impressive, maybe only a couple of times when a defender took a possession off.

I'm wondering if part of the notion that "Weber can't recruit" is that some of the so-called "super-stars" who would be one-year-and-gone either don't want to work as hard as Weber demands or aren't mentally tough enough to play his style and would rather go elsewhere to an easier more pampered atmosphere. It will take a few years, but the time will come when quality recruits will willingly redshirt and Weber will repeatedly start a seasoned, disciplined, hard-nosed team well-balanced between upper-and-lower classmen. Imagine a team with Shaun Pruitt-types with two more years instead of one. Can't wait to see that; Weber's the guy.

Posted by bstouffer on February 25, 2007 at 1:46 PM

I don't see this article as an unecessary diversion at all. On the contrary, it surprises me that anybody would be so adamantly concerned when minimal attention is brought toward other issues facing the City of Champaign over the course of the next few years.

I think it is wonderful that people want to get involved in the political process, but they should do so because they care about the future of our community, not because they are solely concerned about whether smoking is permitted inside bars and restarants. There is a very good chance that the State of Illinois may itself pass legislation on this matter within the coming year anyway. So is it really that wise to elect specific candidates to the City Council based on this one central theme?

If new voters are really going to turn out in droves to the polls just to prevent the repeal of a local smoking ban, then I find that to be far more irresponsible than the supposed premise of this article.

--Randall

Posted by rkrause on February 25, 2007 at 3:05 PM

stouffer, even your rose colored glasses are fogged up. pstate is o fer 13. weber needs to go get some studs and fast. they can stay in my basement and drink all they want.

Posted by rmitchell on February 25, 2007 at 5:35 PM

rmitchell, you are a disgrace.

Posted by dthonn on February 25, 2007 at 9:21 PM

Loren, thanks again for sound thinking

Posted by bmoore on February 25, 2007 at 10:33 PM

I just want to know why there were never talks of how to meet half way in this battle. Obviously everyone wont ever be totaly happy, and the squeeky wheel gets the oil, but it seems there could have been a happy medium. Legitimize the image and the dance. Get references from native americans that would be happy to have their heritage remembered. Make it honorable where they say it is not. My children are 1/8 american indian and my son was looking forward to the chance to try out to be the chief. I was told in the '80s when a friends Dad wanted to try out, he couldn't because he wasn't native american. So make it that they have to have native american heritage to be the chief. Mabe I have missed something and that has been tried already, but it seems to me that there are few native americans left and there will be less all the time and that sucks but, lets put the chief in a place they would be proud of him so their dances will be seen for generations to come and will not become history like they want to make Chief Illiniwek.

Posted by saturn3 on February 26, 2007 at 12:08 AM

I am one of those who prefers watching a Weber coached Illini squad to seeing a one-and-out Simeon super-stud

Posted by jjohnson on February 26, 2007 at 12:38 PM

Gee, I sure hope that University administrators investigate any violations of the student code that occur this Friday as vigorously as they claim they will during their investigation of the basketball incident!

Posted by AlanR on February 27, 2007 at 1:07 PM

Paul, please explain why is it "harder" to win as

a #3, #4 or #5 seed than it is for a lesser seed.

Isn't it just the opposite? The higher you are

seeded, the better your chances of getting to the

Sweet 16 not worse.

Posted by walker on February 27, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Walker, I didn't word that clearly. The point I was trying to get across, and I failed terribly, is that it's a different dynamic playing as a higher seed. Some might say it's added pressure. It should have read, "It's much different playing as a higher seed...." (For example: No. 11 Central Michigan 79, No. 6 Creighton 73 in 2003). But if you're going to choose between a No. 4 seed -- SIU's seed, we think -- and a No. 13, of course you'll take the No. 3. Thanks, PK

Posted by pklee on February 27, 2007 at 2:44 PM

Diane Ricketts currently lives in Connecticut.

Posted by hpaulh on February 27, 2007 at 3:44 PM

So here's an idea-- why not a dancer dressed as Abe Lincoln doing an exaggerated country/Appalachian dance? That way, there can still be a dancing chief at games-- a Commander-in-Chief.

Posted by grayskies on February 28, 2007 at 11:01 AM

I'm a long time fan of Mr. Tate's column, but I've got to call bullpoop on this "thought police" column.

Mr. Tate invokes the "Thought Police" as a convenient foil against a group of people who happen to disagree with his opinion.

As an avowed anti-Iwek guy, I have not:

1. Heard any call a for Fighting Illini nickname change.

2. Seen any protest of the halftime music selection. I don't care if the band plays "happy birthday".

Posted by rmitchell on February 28, 2007 at 12:55 PM

rmitchell, are you Native American or simply a member of the politically correct crowd?

Posted by dthonn on February 28, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Having symapthy for Native Americans (and others) who are offended by a white man dressing up in fake war paint and feathers and dancing around hardly qualifies me for being a member of "The Thought Police." Indian groups and others have said the practice offends them. I'm sympathetic to their concerns. I don't see where "strong-willed, persistent political correctness" enters into it.

Posted by dkoval on February 28, 2007 at 1:22 PM

dkoval, same question.

Posted by dthonn on February 28, 2007 at 1:34 PM

dkoval- in the words of Beavis and Butthead, "Words..............words......words...huuhuhuhuuhuhuhuhuhuuhuhuhu!!!!!!!!"

This is all about being politically correct. What a sensitive society we live in.

Posted by mbeesley on February 28, 2007 at 1:55 PM

Just because somebody disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're part of the "politically correct" crowd.

After all, do you think it's "political correctness" when John Kerry or Barrack Obama mispeak about the troops and are forced to recant their words and apologize profusely?

I'm guessing not, because you probably agree with that correction.

People only cite "political correctness" when it's something they disagree with.

Posted by ralexander on February 28, 2007 at 3:02 PM

If we can't have the Chief, I like the idea of a "spirit".

Posted by dswengel on February 28, 2007 at 3:07 PM

I'm sorry rmitchell and dkoval. I may disagree with some of the things that Loren Tate writes, but in case, he is "spot on". Rationalize all you want, but it is still a PC issue. If you haven't heard for calls to remove the Fighting Illini nickname or eliminate the Three-in-One tradition, then you don't get out much. I am convinced that some people that won't be happy until they come into my house and destroy any "Chief" items I own.

Posted by bfrost on February 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Now which of there recruits will make a difference next year at Illinois?

Posted by dallen on February 28, 2007 at 4:15 PM

I think everyone here (regardless of some very valid arguments for both sides of the issue) has completely overlooked something very important.

Think about the issue on a much smaller scale. When any group gathers in an organized form and decides to name itself - dont they typically choose a name that represents the group in a positive light?

Does anyone honestly think that when Chief Illinwek was born a group of guys sitting in a conference room said "Hey what mascott could we use that would most embarass or offend the Native American heritage of our state?" The Fighting Illini, in its origin, was named to give honor to a group of people. There was never any intention to offend anyone - ever. Okay, so maybe the best route wasnt taken, however, the intentions were never cruel. For years, the Chief has been a symbol of pride, and those who love the Chief - the MILLIONS - who love the Chief don't ever think of him in any negative form towards any group of people. We watch him with pride. I find it very disheartening that some middle ground couldnt be found here. I find it very disturbing that our ridiculously politically correct world has become what it is.

Granted, I am not Native American, therefore, I cannot fathom the offensiveness of the Chief in that aspect. Regardless of ethnicity, I think we should all take into consideration the INTENTIONS of pride and honor in the creation of the symbol for the U of I.

Oh yeah, and with everything transpiring in the world today - war, homelessness, child abuse, umemployment, etc. - one would think that all of the energy used to oust the Chief could be spent on issues that could positively affect the well being of others.

Posted by guardsup on February 28, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Sorry ralexander, but if you don't believe the elimination of the Chief after 81 years was not a result of political correctness then you are badly out of touch. Further, I cite "political correctness" whenever it is appropriate, such as in this case.

Posted by dthonn on March 1, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Is Mark related to some-time PGA player David Ogren?

Posted by tlee on March 1, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Loren, I'm not from Ivesdale, so I loved the Rosenkranz & Guildenstern reference!

Always a pleasure to read your work!

Posted by jeffh on March 2, 2007 at 12:14 PM

I'm an Ivesdale guy and was wondering who this Hamlet is that you referred to. Isn't he the guy that played 6 years for Iowa?

Posted by jturner on March 2, 2007 at 1:39 PM

Paul, many of your columns and blogs leave me with the impression that you wish you were still in southern Illinois covering SIU and the MVC.

Surely you don't need to wave the Illini flag but you seem to focus on the worst case scenarios as far as the UI is concerned.

Your thoughts?

Posted by dthonn on March 2, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Maybe Tisdale is the recruit that will make an impact on the 2007/8 Illinois basketball team...I am waiting for an analysis of the Weber recruits thus far that can make up for the loss of Carter and McBride etc...

Posted by dallen on March 2, 2007 at 9:01 PM

Paul; have you ever heard of Hal Klee ???

Posted by lflodin on March 2, 2007 at 9:46 PM

Yawn.

Posted by mbeesley on March 3, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Hey Grayskies,

You never answered the post that Kfus left. That's a toughie, eh?

Additionally, I read in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the Sioux chief that sold a headdress to the University of Illinois in 1982 now wants it back.

I guess if you're a Native American it's okay to sell feathers, just not wear them if they haven't beened "earned."

Posted by NetworkEngineer on March 3, 2007 at 8:44 PM

What was Dino's problem?

Posted by dallen on March 4, 2007 at 7:40 PM

What was Dino's problem?

None of the receivers improved in two years. In fact, most of them regressed.

Route running was poor, they couldn't get open, and they dropped and fumbled more balls than they caught.

Posted by ralexander on March 5, 2007 at 1:53 AM

Why do you poke a dying thread? Why should I answer anything? Kfus didn't ask a question; he just posted a recollection from almost 60 years ago. What relevance does that have?

And it's not ok to sell eagle feathers. In fact, unless one has a permit (even Indians), it's illegal to possess eagle feathers, even if they're found on the ground.

Note-- I found that the original eagle feather headdress that was used by the Illiniwek minstrel show was "lost," and the one that's been used recently is made of common turkey feathers.

Posted by grayskies on March 5, 2007 at 8:40 AM

I can"t belive Randle still has a schlorship, what a waste.

Posted by dkrus on March 5, 2007 at 9:50 AM

I totally disagree with your assessment that we might need to approach the '99 squad's three wins this weekend. I agree with Bruce that beating PSU should get us in. Our RPI is around 35 and strength of schedule is around 25. While we lost at Purdue, we did not lose to Minn. and Indiana St., 2 terribel teams, like Purdue did. Our RPI and strength of schedule numbers are significantly better than the Boilers, with both of their numbers around 47. At best, we need to beat Indiana on Friday.

Posted by jeohaver on March 5, 2007 at 12:53 PM

In some ways I would like this season to end...for Weber's sake, for the teams sake, and for the sake of fans like me!It just been too much! Let's just end it...no NCAA or NIT and hope the new recruiting class can have a couple of impact players that stay out of trouble!

Posted by dallen on March 5, 2007 at 1:57 PM

It has been a rocky road dallen, but let's not

end it because of that. Win at least two (very

reasonable) in the Big 10 and then at least one

in the NCAA and we all feel better about the

program(future recruits would as well)

Posted by walker on March 5, 2007 at 2:06 PM

To quote a great American, "Never give up!" It is always important to make the big dance. It helps in recruiting and I think it helps with the committee. Our steak is important and should be preserved with a win vs Penn St., a team we destroyed on their home court 10 days ago. Clearly, a second win in the tourney would guarntee entry into the NCAAs.

Posted by jeohaver on March 5, 2007 at 2:33 PM

On the contrary, it is a bad thing when accountability is demanded only when news of a big problem reaches the mainstream, especially when the real "demand" of the military is not accountability, but rather a fall guy.

Posted by javajunkee on March 6, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Way to go, Ron.

Posted by rbarnes on March 6, 2007 at 4:27 PM

Good move Ron There is NO room for this type of behavior. Now, Bruce. I'm a big admirer of your but you need to dismiss Jarmar now.

Posted by jmluse on March 6, 2007 at 5:02 PM

No comparison. Don't equate the two situations.

Ellis and McPhearson planned and executed a series of crimes. They belong in jail.

Smith got drunk and made some poor decisions, both before and after suffering a concussion.

While there is no excuse for driving drunk, his own concussion mitigates any criminal responsibility for leaving the scene.

Posted by Woodswoman on March 6, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Smith made a poor decision to get drunk and while drunk, decided to drive ... that is DUI ... and he should be held accountable. However according to Coach Weber, that apparently is acceptable behavior, since to date there have been no severe consequences for players DUI.

As for the other offenses facing Smith, I guess we will need to wait for the court to decide. If found guilty, then we will find out if they too are acceptable behavior for players playing for Coach Weber.

Posted by ccherry on March 6, 2007 at 6:18 PM

Great point Bob,

I've lived in the City for 10 years and I don't sense the wild enthusiasm for the Tourney the way you do in Indianapolis...

Posted by aratnakar on March 9, 2007 at 1:19 PM

sure -- it's good to have two point guards. It's also nice to have people who can make shots. Frazier and McCammey aren't great shooters. Nor is anyone else in the current rotation. Let's get some athletes who can shoot the rock.

Posted by vreato on March 9, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Given the horrendous job the NCAA Selection Committee did last year, nothing in its selection, seeding, and placement of teams this year would surprise me.

Posted by dgcrow on March 9, 2007 at 1:58 PM

Regardless of this game...nothing has really changed...Weber is a tremedous bench coach with X and O's...but the question remain..."Can he recruit enough to be a national winner" Only an average class of recruits coming in as Freshman will never get the job done. All he has to do is srecruit the state of Illinois is all he has to do...he doesn't have to go to California. I wish him the best but expectations are high!

Posted by dallen on March 10, 2007 at 2:11 PM

From the "Slush Fund" -- which I recall from childhood, through the officiating during the 2005 National Championship game and the Chief, the NCAA has seemingly gone out of its way on numerous occasions to hurt the University of Illinois.

If we are left out of the tournament this year, in my view, that will rank as one more slight, and personally for me, one of the most disgusting.

Posted by jeffh on March 11, 2007 at 10:30 AM

I understand that some of Drexel's wins have come against decent teams, but not all. And if we scheduled teams like that, the Committee would be saying we didn't play enough good teams.

That's just nonsense by the Committee and Talking Heads out there.

Posted by jeffh on March 11, 2007 at 10:34 AM

Nichols is the ref that swallowed the whistle

in Lexington in 84

Posted by kemna on March 11, 2007 at 10:39 AM

Nice article but am I correct that it was Hank Nichols who couldn't call travelling against Kentucky's Dickie Beal at Rupp Arena back in the 80's and cost Illinois a chance to advance in the tournament?

That must rank as one of the all-time blown calls and I'd expect better from someone at that level.

And also -- how did they assign the "mystery men" -- to use Loren's adjective - who were responsible for the travesty inflicted on Illinois in the 2005 championship game?

This system still has lots of room to improve, I'd say.

Posted by jeffh on March 11, 2007 at 10:42 AM

It sickens me to see OSU have so much success. They are proving that NCAA sports now come down to who has the most money in their coffers and who can bend the rules without getting caught. I have nothing against Matta, but the OSU athletic program, in my opinion, has played NCAA rules like a piano in order to get what they want. Powerhouses like OSU, Texas, Florida that are allowed to spend like there is no tommorow are killing college basketball and college athletics. I hope that fans wake up to the fact that there is not a level playing field for most teams. NCAA sports = major league baseball.

Posted by mpryor on March 11, 2007 at 1:12 PM

Randal is a waste of a scholarship and thank god McBride will be gone. They both stink.

Posted by dguire on March 11, 2007 at 2:16 PM

More specific and less harsh than the above,Randall's pure athletic ability far exceeds his basketball skills, physically and mentally. No outside shot, poor free throw shooter, below average foot work, below average court sense, commits maddening fouls. What you see is what you get-expect pretty much the same next year.

Posted by bstouffer on March 11, 2007 at 3:13 PM

`This offense RARELY gets anyone an open shot even for a one second count....it needs to be changed Bruce !!!....and this is the WORST free throw shooting team in history!!! Make them all shoot 500 free throws a day with a free throw coach present this summer, to keep their scholarships !

Posted by FearTheChief on March 11, 2007 at 4:01 PM

The Slush Fund had nothing to do with the NCAA.

Posted by ralexander on March 12, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Missed practices were part if it, surely, but so is lack of talent, and that falls on Weber.

Lack of depth? The injuries and loss of Carlwell, Smith, and Semrau would have been a lot easier to absorb with the 2 extra scholarship players we couldn't fill in recruiting.

Recruiting is everything.

When this team performs even worse next year, what will be the excuse then?

Posted by ralexander on March 12, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Looks like Randle is due to become the Illini fan whipping boy - the player who takes the most irrational abuse from fans, and whose successes are ignored (in the long line of Frank Williams, Nick Smith and Rich McBride).

Posted by ralexander on March 12, 2007 at 12:43 AM

Have you looked at next year's class. Its got 4 guys in the top 100..

Posted by aratnakar on March 12, 2007 at 6:37 AM

I agree with ralexander; this program is destined to become what Purdue was under Keady. Good teams but not enough recruited talent to get back to the final 4...Weber can not recruit.

Posted by dguire on March 12, 2007 at 8:41 AM

The slush fund had everything to do with the NCAA and the Big Ten- it was a violation. A weak Pres- David Dodds Henry- succomed and turned us in when shown records that were never to have been kept by an angry Ass't AD. But, as a reflection, I myself knew contributors to "slush funds" at Michigan and Purdue. I knew a player for Indiana who got his $$ in blank envelopes in his locker after practice. UI's worst offense was to match an offer by Northwestern. Bubba Smith, from a notoriously poor family, drove a Cadillac at MSU. It was all hypocrisy. Seems when it involves the UI,it usually is.

Posted by Acunningham on March 12, 2007 at 10:28 AM

Ralexander; aside from Frank Williams, what did Nick Smith & Rich McBride contribute to the basketball program? Granted, McBride can still do something in the tournament but for the most part he has been a HUGE disappointment.

Posted by dguire on March 12, 2007 at 10:50 AM

I think Grentz has been a decent Coach, but if RG can figure out a way to come up with the cash and a quality candidate, I would suggest finding a replacement.

I don't think one of the 1st team all state players from Illinois HS basketball is coming to Illinois...

Posted by aratnakar on March 12, 2007 at 12:15 PM

The motives of Fitzgerald and Libby are not nearly as mysterious as you suggest. Testimony clearly spells out that Cheney and his office angled to out Plame as a way to get back at her husband for his criticism of the administration. Libby's role was inexcusable, legal or not, and he struggled to keep it secret. Fitzgerald worked to expose it. Regardless of whether or not Novak had alternative sources, if Fitzgerald's investigation implicated Libby and his efforts to do Cheney's bidding, he had a responsibility to follow up on that and explore whether or not crimes were committed.

I, for one, think that the political moves of our leaders should be held to a much higher standard than, "is it criminal?" Maybe it's true that the only time Libby broke the law was when he lied, but the truth is that the Plame incident was just one more example of the complete and utter disregard that Libby, Cheney, Rove, and Bush show for our nation and those sworn to protect it.

Posted by javajunkee on March 12, 2007 at 1:25 PM

I really like Grentz as a person, but her ability to coach since she has been here is marginal at best. She is slightly above average recruiter, but a horrible game coach...her teams play way out of control too often resulting in very inconsistent success. The game has passed her by.

Posted by dhouston on March 12, 2007 at 2:49 PM

It bothers me lots that Grentz is always recruiting somewhere besides Illinois.

Posted by widkid on March 12, 2007 at 4:30 PM

Chelsea Buher is 1st Team Illinois.

Posted by lbuher on March 13, 2007 at 11:19 AM

Two more star recruites (Rose & Turner) to spurn Weber.

Posted by dguire on March 13, 2007 at 12:18 PM

but 2 others did not "spurn Weber". Let's wait

to see what kind of college players these "star

recruits" end up being. (I like Cole & McCamey)

Posted by walker on March 13, 2007 at 12:44 PM

When you see teams like OSU and North Carolina play, you realize just how little talent Illinois has in comparison. If we don't start recruiting some athletes real soon, we'll be down there battling with Penn State and Minnesota.

Posted by vreato on March 13, 2007 at 2:49 PM

Weber should get a pass on Rose-he got smoked on Gordon's last minute rug job and the good ones were gone. Not getting Turner, Wright or Collins are fair criticisms until any possible extenuating circumstances are revealed.

Posted by bstouffer on March 13, 2007 at 3:44 PM

Weber is my Big 10 Coach of the Year for the job he has done with the circumstances he and his team has had to face...but he is falling behind in the recruiting game. I want to know why?

Posted by dallen on March 13, 2007 at 7:34 PM

such is life

Posted by Exbricklayer on March 14, 2007 at 9:21 PM

The Big Ten, and especially the ILLINI will be fine competitively speaking in big time college Basketball. I contend that the Illini have an extremely underrated recruiting class here right now, and if they are fortunate to obtain the services of Santiago or the guard from a certain Jr. College in Southern California, they will have a very strong team in two years time. No, these guys are not of the caliber of Greg Oden or the turncoat from Indianapolis, but under Coach Weber's tutelage, the Illini will be a contender just the way that the Keady/Weber teams of Purdue were contenders every year. If we remember, Coach Keady and Coach Weber never obtained the best talent every year for Purdue, but somehow or another Keady's teams had the best winning percentage in the Big Ten for a ten year period. better than Booby Knights Indiana teams and better than Coach Lou Henson's teams had in the same period. You bet, it is a much longer and harder road to hoe, but it is almost more satisfying. One other thing that might make it more fun is that these types of players won't leave early for the pros so we will be able to get to know these players over a four or five year period. The thing that has made college basketball go downhill in my opinion is that you never get to know the players on the "Big Time" teams anymore. A rare exception to this point is of course---the University of Florida returning all five of their players from last years championship team. If they come back next year it would be totally shocking.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on March 15, 2007 at 2:35 AM

C'mon ...give your own team the benefit of the

doubt. Your own "in Your Face" column today

shows us to be dead even down the line with this

team !

Posted by walker on March 16, 2007 at 1:35 PM

Time to start recruiting players that can stay sober and shoot the ball. I'll give Weber another two years to see what he can do with his own players but if it doesn't improve, it's time to go.

Posted by dguire on March 17, 2007 at 1:21 PM

I agree with dguire...he deserves to be the Big 10 Coach of the Yearwith all he has had to deal with this season...but the kids he needs are going elsewhere...it is so sad after being on top just two years ago.

Posted by dallen on March 17, 2007 at 3:11 PM

Count me among those who point out that if Gordon and family had kept their word, we wouldn't be talking about Bruce's ability to recruit.

No other coach could've gotten this team this far, and he deserves to just "throw this season out" and rebuild. We can't have another season like this, can we?!

Posted by jeffh on March 17, 2007 at 4:23 PM

I hope Bruce can succeed as I believe he is a good man and a helluva defensive coach.Part of the problem is that because of the intense defensive pressure,the legs are gone in the second half and make it very difficult offensively.Illinois needs to work on FREE THROWS all summer long every day.Illinois needs to get mentally tougher...They appear to be unsure of themselves to the point of panic under stress.There is simply NO excuse for blowing that lead ! NONE !.Yes Bruce needs to stop the departure of all the outstanding talent in this state and winding up in the Final Four at OTHER schools.Illinois should be in the top 3 teams in the USA every year IF most of the talent stays at home.

Posted by FearTheChief on March 17, 2007 at 8:33 PM

The last category Reasons For Optimism is a bit contradictory. "help on the way, though not at the level of other teams in the Big Ten" provides no reason for optimism.

The fact is our present coach, while a gentleman and nice man, is not bringing in the talent of our competition, and therefore relegates us to an inferior position. This is not acceptable. Unfortunately, we are not at the same level we were under Kruger and Self.

Posted by skarras on March 18, 2007 at 12:53 PM

While it is true Guenther's conduct in public was inappropriate, it provides some measure of comfort to Illinois people that our anguish is shared by the individual in a position to bring about change.

We need to improve our personnel, and better control our current players.

Posted by skarras on March 18, 2007 at 1:09 PM

The returning players need to work super hard during the off season! Enough about potential, these guys need to step up. Also,

please bring somebody in who is expert at teaching players how to make 75% of them consistently. What would have been the outcome against VT if we could have made our FT's? And Weber needs to bring in a player who is athletic, can shoot lights out, dominate a game from the backcourt. As much as I hate the thought, maybe some stud Juco guy? This past year was bizarre, hopefully just a blip, but another one like 2006-07 (game results and recruiting) won't be acceptable.

Posted by cjcohen on March 18, 2007 at 1:32 PM

"Doyel didn't stop with criticizing Guenther. Piling on, he patted himself on the back when he wrote: "Weber can't recruit at the elite level, which I first pointed out during Illinois' magical 2005 season." He referred to Weber as "dorky" and the players as "mentally weak." "

Doyel didn't have credibility before this incident, and this passage explains why. As a journalist -- the kindest thing I can say is he couldn't turn on Loren's laptop for him. And he should be glad I mentioned him in the same sentence with a man like Loren.

Posted by jeffh on March 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM

OK so we blew a basketball game that we should have won. It happens to the best of teams.I thank the team and our coaches for a good season. they coached and played their hearts out.As a lifetime Red Sox fan here on the East Coast all I can say is Wait till next year.

Posted by jlacava on March 18, 2007 at 1:49 PM

Growing up just up the road from CU, my 8th grade team ended each practice by shooting til they made 50 FT's -- not just shooting 50, but making them.

I read that the Illini shoot free throws after each practice, so I'd say it's a mental thing that I'm not sure how they can overcome. FT's are something that anyone can learn to do -- you don't have to be a McD AA for that.

I like what I read of the players' feelings coming out of this -- I'm an optimist and I think they'll use this as motivation. And I agree with our Coach -- and I wouldn't want anyone else to be our Coach -- that they did accomplish some things despite the obstacles this year. I'm sure they'll be better next season.

BEAT INDIANA

Posted by jeffh on March 18, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Who is Doyle anyway? Just another columnist in a long line of pretend experts for an ever decreasing readership of all the traditional media outlets...

Posted by dguire on March 18, 2007 at 1:54 PM

BEST MOMENT (ON THE COURT

Illinois 58, Indiana 54, OT

Absolutely and I couldn't agree more.

I'm old enough that the first Illini game I attended was 2/23/63, the last one at Huff as a4th Grader, and I would rank this as one of my personal 10 Moments I was Most Proud of the Illini.

Posted by jeffh on March 18, 2007 at 1:56 PM

As for not being at the same level as when Kruger and Self were here -- I think that's a bit premature. I don't believe either of them would have done any better this year, and Self until now Self has underachieved in the NCAA tournament.

Players and coaches deserve a little slack after events of this season, IMHO.

Posted by jeffh on March 18, 2007 at 2:01 PM

Doyel speaks the truth about our tranished athletic program, and he's dead on about the recruiting.

Even Mr. Tate wrote yesterday that there is little hope for next season as well.

And next year we won't have injuries and DUIs to explain away the lack of talent.

Posted by ralexander on March 18, 2007 at 2:49 PM

That remaining recruit is vital! They need s shooter!!!

Posted by dallen on March 18, 2007 at 3:09 PM

He better be good because he has some class material to work with...if he does a good job...he has the opportunity to move up the food chain!

Posted by dallen on March 18, 2007 at 3:11 PM

ralexander, get back to us when you learn how to spell at a third grade level, OK?

Posted by dthonn on March 18, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Guenther hired Weber and he must have realized here is a guy that is not blessed with an abundant amount of charisma os a Self or now a Samson...where was his head when he hired this guy that on the other hand deserves to be the Big 10 Coach of the Year. He is great bench coach but the real question,"Can he get big time players to his bench"

Posted by dallen on March 18, 2007 at 3:22 PM

Please continue on with the oncoming recruiting class....and the possibilities to whom the last schlorship might be given...and their strengths and weaknesses. Good start...just finish "the rest of the story"!

Posted by dallen on March 18, 2007 at 3:29 PM

I think we will be a better team next year. That

means more than 23 wins, which in days gone by

was about par for Illini Nation

Posted by walker on March 18, 2007 at 4:48 PM

ralexander, keep it on the Hoosier boards -- there'll be more people who think like you do there.

And I read Mr. Tate's column yesterday and he didn't say what you said he did -- so maybe he wrote two columns?

Posted by jeffh on March 18, 2007 at 8:11 PM

"a creation of irresponsible bar owners"

That being the key term: "irresponsible bar owners", and yet we listen to them when they holler and complain about a host of other things including the smoking ban. Until there is a universal agreement by them to shun and turn away from catering to this "Unofficial" mess, their views on everything else should be written off completely instead of constantly being given a special seat at the table in city government and being allowed to wield an unhealthy level of influence in how the City of Champaign chooses to conduct business.

Posted by mattvarbl on March 18, 2007 at 9:32 PM

certainly we are disappointed in the loss to vt,butlet us not be so vindictive. after all it was only a game and life goes on.iprefer to give Bruce the benefit of the doubt in view of his record over the past 4 years.

Posted by rdurkin on March 19, 2007 at 10:02 AM

I think we can all agree that Weber is a good x's and o's coach, but, to date, he has been a failure as a recruiter. I will be very disappointed if Weber does not make some changes to his coaching staff to bring on board a top notch recruiter.

At the time he was hired, we all knew Weber did not have the charisma of Bill Self; however, I did think he would enjoy recruiting success based on the 2005 Final Four run and his ability to develop players. For whatever reasons, that has not happened. Look at Jim Calhoun and Jim Boeheim - they don't seem overly charismatic but both have been able to recruit.

My evaluation of Weber's ability to successfully run the Illinois' program started this year because he is now coaching his own players and we have been able to look at a couple of his recruiting classes. That does not discount the prior years, but in my opinion, in those prior years his only responsbility was to coach great players that were already there. That is an important job, but it is only half the job in big-time college basketball - the other half is to keep restocking the talent.

I think he coached his tail off this year and probably got the most out of this team. My concern is that I want more from this program, and I am not sure Weber can deliver it.

Posted by illini1809 on March 19, 2007 at 10:20 AM

Doyel??? Just another dork that is better suited to follow dogs around at the local humane society with a newspaper filled with his articles. Crap to Crap!!!

Posted by mustwhiz on March 19, 2007 at 10:55 AM

Smith was such a non factor before the "accident"

I'd say recruit as if he isn't coming back.

Posted by walker on March 19, 2007 at 12:48 PM

I don't think the program has any choice but to recruit as if Jamar will not be returning. It may be best for Jamar to takethe initiative and decide to transfer pending the outcome of his trial. Dragging the program and his teamates through an uncertain off-season, adds to the turmoil which has already occurred; the basketball program needs to get it's house in order and it can't happen with continued uncertainty regarding Jamar's future.

Posted by kellytm on March 19, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Do we pull academic scholarships for DUI? Then leave the kid alone to face the process.

Posted by jjohnson on March 19, 2007 at 1:48 PM

I don't know Jamar but I have heard he is a good kid who made some bad decisions under the influence of alcohol then again after suffering some level of head trauma. I would venture to say Jamar is not the first teenager to make bad decisions. I know I made some. After consulting with legal counsel on the likely outcome here I think the coaches need to make a judgement based on Jamar's character as to whether he merits a second chance making sure he understands the level of scrutiny and then get on with things. Unless there are other skeletons in the closet my vote is he does deserve a second chance so let's support him and help him thru this.

Posted by dbrooks on March 19, 2007 at 2:10 PM

Nobody ever comments on how transfer Steve Holdren looks in practice. Does anybody on the News Gazette staff have a point of view on what this guy brings to the table next year??

Also, is it true that Weber is trying to land Angel Santiago out of Chi-twon who is now a Juco player in Kansas??

Please advise if you know

sbt91

Posted by sbtudor on March 19, 2007 at 2:45 PM

I read in the Peoria Journal Star that the Illini are recruiting Santiago. It is also my understanding that the kid was highly thougth of out of HS. However, he basically ignored his school work, but his grades are now in order. His JUCO coach believes he now has his priorities in order and is ready to make an impact for some D1 program.

Posted by jeohaver on March 19, 2007 at 3:50 PM

Recruit a replacement for Jamar. If he comes back, anything we get out of him will be a bonus.

Posted by dswengel on March 19, 2007 at 7:18 PM

Dear Paul: I agree with your observations almost to a man. I know the naysayers are having a ball pointing out Coach Weber's inability to land the "big one" as of yet. But, remember the way his old team...the Purdue Boilermakers were the exact same way. They never had any big time recruits with the exception of Robinson, and yet, during that time, Purdue won more games, more big ten titles and had more NCAA appearances than any other Big Ten team, including the far more written about and talked about team an hour and a half or so to the south....Indiana.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on March 20, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Dear Paul: I agree with your observations almost to a man. I know the naysayers are having a ball pointing out Coach Weber's inability to land the "big one" as of yet. But, remember the way his old team...the Purdue Boilermakers were the exact same way. They never had any big time recruits with the exception of Robinson, and yet, during that time, Purdue won more games, more big ten titles and had more NCAA appearances than any other Big Ten team, including the far more written about and talked about team an hour and a half or so to the south....Indiana.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on March 20, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Howsabout the Illini hiring RJ back as offensive coordinator----in charge of teaching the team the proper way to shoot(see chester) and also how to consistently make a freaking free throw.!!!! You add a tremendous recruiter who knows the system as well.....

Posted by guitaraxe1 on March 20, 2007 at 6:06 AM

I'm sure that if we have the players who can play that wide open, motion style, Bruce would do that, same as he did with Dee et al. I would hope that Liggins and others would realize that if they brought their skill here, they'd get to use them.

Just my thoughts Loren -- excellent points as usual.

Posted by jeffh on March 20, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Question is; what happened in those two years that made Weber move from a "run-and-gun" style to what we saw this year? Lack of TALENT. These are mostly all of Weber's recruits, this does not bode well for the future if he keeps recruiting players like we had this year. What is lacking in his ability to attract talent?

Posted by dguire on March 20, 2007 at 12:35 PM

It seems like we always have a big dip in talent

and subsequent recruiting success right after a

big step forward (IE the '89 Final Four year, the

Sugar Bowl football success and the great '05

team) When it gets right down to it, only a very

few exclusive programs are able to sustain success

over an extended period of time.

Posted by walker on March 20, 2007 at 12:43 PM

I understand Loren's concerns, however, I beleive that our '07 recruits, McCamey(sp?) and Watkins are guys who like to play up-tempo ball.

Posted by aratnakar on March 20, 2007 at 1:16 PM

It must frustrate the hell out of Weber to see the guys he schooled (Painter and Lowery), beating him on recruits. Yet, all we hear is whining from him about things not bouncing our way and such. Go out and recruit players, or step aside for those who can and do. His class two years ago, after advancing to the NCAA championship game, was a joke. And, the joke is on us.

Posted by vreato on March 20, 2007 at 3:08 PM

Walker - the dip in recruiting after the '89 season was a direct result of the NCAA sancitons from the Pearl fiasco (we were limited to two scholarships a year for two years).

Even then, Henson recruited well landing prospects like Rich Keene (a McD All-American who picked us over Duke), Jarrod Gee (Mr. Basketball) and Bryant Notree (a Parade All-American).

Trouble was, those players didn't pan out, which is why you have to be able to recruit lots of blue-chippers.

Weber can't recruit one, much less several.

Anyway, without those NCAA sanctions, players like Juwan Howard and Rashard Griffith might have come here, but went elsewhere after the NCAA hit us hard.

Posted by ralexander on March 20, 2007 at 4:03 PM

By failing to capitalize on our final four momentum, we have spun our own web(er). Coach did what he had to do to maximize wins, but the result was startingly ugly. Now, two years later, Weber has the challenge to convince promising young recruits that the style of play we remember from the 2004/05 team is the way future Illini teams will (want to) play. The catch is, we have to get the right talent very soon into C-U to get back on track again. It won't be easy, but I believe next year is the key in regaining that lost momentum. Another season like this one will only spell diaster in terms of mediocrity.

Posted by Lanse on March 20, 2007 at 4:19 PM

FYI to many of the haters out there, McBride, Randle and Carter are all Bill Self's recruits. That's three of five starters on this offensively challenged club. To RAlexander I say, boy, I sure miss those fantastic days you mentioned when we had great players like Gee, Notre and Keene!!!!

Posted by jeohaver on March 20, 2007 at 4:51 PM

And if McBride, Carter, and Randle didn't pan out, well, they have only Weber to blame since they never spent a day coached by Self.

Posted by ralexander on March 20, 2007 at 7:44 PM

And jeohaver, by the way, that's why I said Keene, Notree and Gee didn't pan out, despite their high rankings, which is why you have to recruit multiple blue-chippers, since rankings aren't always correct.

Posted by ralexander on March 20, 2007 at 7:47 PM

hope Bruce can succeed as I believe he is a good man and a helluva defensive coach.Part of the problem is that because of the intense defensive pressure,the legs are gone in the second half and make it very difficult offensively.Illinois needs to work on FREE THROWS all summer long every day.Illinois needs to get mentally tougher...They appear to be unsure of themselves to the point of panic under stress.There is simply NO excuse for blowing that lead ! NONE !.Yes Bruce needs to stop the departure of all the outstanding talent in this state and winding up in the Final Four at OTHER schools.Illinois should be in the top 3 teams in the USA every year IF most of the talent stays at home.

Posted by FearTheChief on March 20, 2007 at 8:24 PM

CBSSportsline.com?????? what the hell is that??? WHO CARES....Those of us who love Warren probably called him an idiot at that moment....He probably called himself worse...Yes it was in public but its a verry intense time for many reasons....everyone should get over it and consider the agenda the writer Tim who??????? had. Better free throw shooting and waaaay better recruiting will make it all go away

BRING BACK THE CHIEF !!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by FearTheChief on March 20, 2007 at 8:34 PM

Bruce Weber is a good, if not great, coach. However, circumstances arguably beyond his control, have put the program in a major bind. It will be too lengthy and arduous for Weber to get out of the hole. Unfortunately, a new head coach will be the solution.

Posted by dking on March 21, 2007 at 11:28 AM

Wow, Hardin should have brought the Hamblys in years ago.

Posted by lroller on March 21, 2007 at 2:51 PM

Excellent outcome.

People of Mr. Guenther's stature should not be dealt with adversely because a gossip columnist masquerading as a journalist writes an exaggerated account of his passion during an excruciating loss.

I hope both Coaches Guenther and Weber are with the University of Illinois for many more years.

Posted by jeffh on March 22, 2007 at 12:04 PM

I could not agree more with the above post. I refused to read Doyel's article when I heard about it. He has a vendetta obviously was not man enough to speak directly with Guenther. He obviously thinks highly of himself. All you have to do is read Greenstein's quotes from him in yesterday's paper. I understand the Kansas BB coach and Doyel are best buds.

Heard Paul Klee say he is a good journalist. Now I wonder where he is coming from.

I hope Greenstein, Mariotti, and others who quoted Loren Tate extensively are remunerating him appropriately. I believe Loren's son is in college so he can probably use some extra dough.

Posted by bbabcock on March 22, 2007 at 3:12 PM

I can't believe you think Doyel is a decent human being. What a phony with a vendetta who is in love with himself. Why do press people like him have to try to make themselves the story.

Posted by bbabcock on March 22, 2007 at 3:19 PM

I believe that Bruce Weber is a good coach, but I also believe that he is a poor recruiter. If he doesn't find a way to recruit kids from Illinois, he will never enjoy the success that he wants. I hate seeing all of the Illinois players going to the other major colleges. He needs to find a way to stop the exodus.

Posted by dmeador on March 22, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Guenther will be slapping tables for years to come, given Weber's inability to recruit.

Posted by tlee on March 23, 2007 at 8:34 AM

Tate continues to "beat the drum" (pardon the pun) on an issue legally decided last month. Let us move on!

Posted by rmitchell on March 23, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Mr. Tate, please don't waste your great talents on this subject anymore..

Posted by aratnakar on March 23, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Loren, I appreciate this article. As someone living outside of Champaign, I rely upon you and other journalists to keep us informed on this and other important stories.

Posted by jturner on March 23, 2007 at 2:18 PM

Kruger did not take Illinois to the Sweet 16. Check the facts.

Posted by ralexander on March 23, 2007 at 7:10 PM

Let's move on... Let's move on... Where have we heard this from lately?... Talk about beating the drum? It's amazing how a few have cost us so much.... You write it Loren, and there are a whole lot of us out here who will read it, and stick it up on office bulletin boards, etc. It's too bad that the people who were responsible for this debacle would, in their own words... "move on."

Posted by Frank Dutton on March 23, 2007 at 10:57 PM

In the spirit of "let's move on" ... what will the UI band do this fall? Tate, any insight?

Posted by ccherry on March 24, 2007 at 5:56 AM

Weber is in over his head. Also, it is a good thing that Randle, Carter and McBride were on this team because other than Pruit, that was most of the scoring for the team.

Posted by jjrepp on March 24, 2007 at 5:33 PM

Better facilities? I thought Guenther has done the job here? What am I missing. Also, why would we ever want to have the successes that tOSU has had over the years? I prefer being mired in mediocrity. Thanks for confirming that, Mr. Herman!

Posted by mbeesley on March 25, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Well, above poster, you are missing the Assembly Hall. Also, we all want successful athletics, but we don't need to go into the red in order to achieve success.

Posted by jjrepp on March 25, 2007 at 3:14 PM

Self left me at the altar claiming he loved me. Oh do I wish some fan would sneak up and remove his toupee on national tv. Sorry Loren, I am blind when it comes to Bail $elf.

Posted by rmitchell on March 27, 2007 at 12:44 PM

great article as always Loren.

The saddest part about all the "doom and gloomers" is they have decided that 2005 season should be considered the norm and not the exception...

Posted by aratnakar on March 27, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Nicely said, Loren.

I recall your comments when Self left, I think it was to the effect that he could've handled it much differently and better and not created nearly the hard feelings.

I'm a fan, rather than "observer of the scene" like yourself, so I admit I share the hard feelings a little more. But your points about Self's accomplishements are hard to argue with.

And for what it's worth -- I wouldn't want any other coach than the one we have now.

Posted by jeffh on March 27, 2007 at 12:52 PM

Fans are bitter about Bill (I Love My)Self because he lied to Ron Guenther and to the Illini. He swore up and down he was at Illinois "for the long haul". Guenther would have never hired him otherwise. After coaching Illinois for 3 short years and just a few months after signing a new 5 year contract with the Illini, he bolted to a position he said had more "prestige". He thereby broke the very commitment that got him the job at Illinois in the first place. Make all the excuses you want for him. He's proven that he is not a man of his word. For someone who is supposed to be setting an example for the young men he is coaching, that is inexcusable.

Posted by dgcrow on March 27, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Why were any critics of Lou Henson considered "loonies."? I agree with you loren

that Weber's recruits may be better than what all

the doomsdayers think. Why didn't we get Dwight

Beverley last year when he wanted to come to UI

but Weber would not offer? (If that is true, then

B W is not a very good talent evaluator)

Posted by walker on March 27, 2007 at 1:30 PM

Just to backup ralexander:

1997 NCAA Tournament

Illinois beat USC 90-77

lost UT Chattanooga 75-63

1998 NCAA Tournament

Illinois beat South Alabama 64-51

lost Maryland 67-61

1999 Illinois 14-18

2000 NCAA Tournament

Illinois beat Penn 68-58

lost Florida 93-76

* Lon Kruger has already coached against Florida in the NCAA Tournament after he left as their head coach.

Posted by hpaulh on March 27, 2007 at 2:04 PM

I disagree with the Coach. We're the Fighting Illini, we've never had a dumb mascot prancing around on the sidelines during games and we don't need to start now.

Posted by hpaulh on March 27, 2007 at 2:24 PM

I don't recall anybody suggesting that Self is a coaching genius. His strength is recruiting. If he was still in Champaign, we would have Rush, Wright and Collins. He might not be the best coach, but he knows how to get talent. Perhaps Weber should take note? Given the choice, I'll take Self. Think about what it means to have talent the next time we go 10:00 without scoring.

Posted by vreato on March 27, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Memo to Bruce -- please post above note in locker room to fire up the guys next fall . . . and to dunk in the writer's face.

Posted by jjohnson on March 27, 2007 at 3:17 PM

I'm a 1968 alum and read your articles over the internet. This is probably the best column you've ever wriiten. I think Bruce learned a lesson with Gordon and is not repeating it with the recruitment of Q. You must stay close with these kids or your're going to lose.

MrBill from LA

Posted by rangerhy on March 27, 2007 at 6:30 PM

One of your best articles ever. There are three big problems with the bloggers, namely:

1.) They may, or may not, be Illini fans but can (and sometimes do) pass themselves off as such, albeit with completely negative comments,

2. Most generally show no common sense and seem to believe that Illinois should be in the final four every year and,

3. Possibly most importantly, I am sure that many potential recruits read these comments. Nothing positive can come from this.

Congratulations to Coach Weber and the team for an unbelievable 23 win season in spite of injuries and other distractions. To see what an outstanding feat this is, refer to the Tate article.

Posted by LMoore on March 27, 2007 at 8:48 PM

This is the first time I will take exception to anything Coach Weber has said, but he must know, or soon be told, the sensitivity of the situation surrounding the Chief. His comments do not reflect that understanding. This was not a solution by popular vote and a large percentage of the alumni,athletic fan base, and even Orange Krush, do not take comments about the replacement of an eighty year tradition calmly. That tradition of music and ceremony should continue in the absence of a student designate. I for one will be dissappointed in any attempt at an embarrassing sideline substitute. Our sidline and community representative is Orange Krush.

Posted by dhornickel on March 27, 2007 at 10:38 PM

We should have no more reason to believe the Gordon comments today than those earlier. It appears that he has completely rationalized the process in his mind. He may be able to sell this version at Indiana; I'm not buying, thank you.

Posted by LMoore on March 28, 2007 at 11:26 AM

We would obviously have liked Gorden playing at

UI, but I'm not really dissapointed because McCamey & Watkins for 4 years each is likely a

better situation than Gorden only for one year.

Posted by walker on March 28, 2007 at 12:35 PM

Let's hope we do see "a different Yelton" coach !

Posted by walker on March 28, 2007 at 12:37 PM

If Gordon really expects us to believe him -- and if anyone here does -- I've got some beachfront property in Nevada you might be interested in.

What a load of garbage -- and completely classless.

Posted by jeffh on March 28, 2007 at 1:06 PM

Even if what Gordon syas is true (which I doubt), it was Mr. Cell Phone who should have kept the Illini staff informed.

Posted by dgcrow on March 28, 2007 at 1:48 PM

Well I believe, if we imporve in other parts of our game , it will help yelton as well. Like not having to kick from the end zone half the time, and getting a little time to kick it wont hurt either

Posted by bmorphy on March 28, 2007 at 1:57 PM

he has set the bar nothing he says can be believed ,he belongs in In with another proven cheat look what he left in Ok only time before he has Iu in the same situation, I also wonder if old man gordon is still pushing phara drugs or might he be working for a 3 stripe shoe co.

Posted by cgrady on March 28, 2007 at 3:58 PM

He's a kid! Give him a break.

Posted by jjohnson on March 28, 2007 at 5:39 PM

Who cares!

Let's move on!

Posted by buffetrph on March 28, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Not many other players have treated other schools like Gordon treated Illinois. It will be a negative mark on his record for the rest of his life. It is a incident that he will never live down! It will motivate the Illinois bunch next year as they beat Indiana 2 out 3 this year!

Posted by dallen on March 28, 2007 at 9:09 PM

As an alumnus, I am thrilled that we have such a class guy as our coach and university representative.

Posted by jjohnson on March 29, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Coach Weber keep up the the great effort, we all know you will have a great team next year.

Harold Coon

Columbus, Ohio

e-mail hcoon@insight.rr.com

Posted by hicoon on March 30, 2007 at 6:31 AM

Thank you for your support and continued interest in ensuring proper care and treatment for our veterans.

Sam Anderson

Posted by samanderson on March 30, 2007 at 7:41 AM

I continue to be amazed at the arrogance of this judge! The problems that exist within the Champaign School District are the same problems that plague school districts across the nation. Yet, Judge McDade thinks that the Champaign School District should be able to solve them.....simply because he has ordered it. Hey Judge, you want to make a difference? ...try ordering some of these parents to make education a priority in their household, and tell them to get rid of the influences in their children's lives who badmouth the importance of an education! But, gee, that might be overstepping his authority!

Posted by AlanR on March 30, 2007 at 11:43 AM

Champaign teachers are being forced to accept responsibilty for every problem in our community.There is no school district in the nation that has had so much blame placed on it in such a clearly unfair manner.No where else in the Champaign-Urbana community is any organization or group of people being so unjustly hammered over race issues as those who work in Champaign schools.Truthfully,most of us wouldn't work under conditions that Unit 4 employees are being forced to put up with because of this consent degree.The proof of that is in the turnover of over 100 teachers for each of the last 4 years.In addition it is common knowledge in Illinois that the Illinois Principal's Association does not recommend Unit 4 as a place of employment for administrators.Obviously one becomes an easy target if criticism of the consent decree is presented in a public forum,but the community is going to have to demand that a more truthful examination of the consent degree than the abysmal mismanagement offered by Judge McDade.

Posted by nick on March 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

In the "old days" (late fifties --early sixties)the baseball team "lived" on the help from football players..-- Tom Haller;Gary Kolb; Eathon Blackaby;Greg Schumacher..--Even Rich Callaghan..--

Posted by lflodin on March 31, 2007 at 2:47 AM

Yes, there is racism in all US cities, and African American students have historically been neglected, and yes, the entire US needs to do something about it, but that does not mean that Champaign Schools are not responsible for its specific problems.

If you get a chance, read all the documents of the consent decree. There are very specific ways that Champaign schools have neglected minority students. These areas of neglect can be changed fairly easily.

I am not saying that any particular individuals are racist, but rather that some of the decisions made by the Unit 4 school board, both past and present, have had hardest impacts on those least able to recover from them. The fact that there are not enough school seats in the poor neighborhoods and that the current school board proposed building a school out west of Parkland College instead of the true North of University is just one example. There are other examples, many of which are spelled out in the reports from the monitoring team.

Yes, the whole country would like to see more minority students graduating from high school, but just a few small things here could help our community raise OUR numbers. It may seem as if Champaign residents expect the impossible, but at least try to care enough to listen to the ideas of the African American community. Just one simple example, stop force bussing the poor kids out of their neighborhoods -- because this bussing means that they cannot participate in after school activities like band, sports, scouting, and yes maybe even tutoring. Bus the middle class kids and let their parents pick them up when they stay after school.

That is all I am asking, make decisions that will help the entire public school system in Champaign, and this means making decisions that will hurt the minorities and lower income students the very least. Champaign will be a better place, and maybe, just maybe the country will follow.

Posted by kmedina on March 31, 2007 at 10:41 AM

LMoore -

1. Just because someone is not happy with the baskeball program today, that does not mean the person is not an Illini fan.

2. Nothing wrong with wanting and expecting the best. Why settle for average?

3. All fans of all teams critisize. You just happen to read Illini articles and forums. This goes on at most BCS programs.

And 23 wins was nothing spectaculer this season as over 100 teams won more than 20 games this season.

Posted by jjrepp on March 31, 2007 at 7:43 PM

Come on Loren, you left out some significant CPL academic failures @UI in the early 60's in Pete Cunningham of Carver and Bernie Mills of Dunbar.

The failure of these two laid the foundation for future CPL bias and probably directly to the failure to get Cazzie Russell.

A lot of the CPL problem can be directly attributed to the athletic administration of the UI under Doug Mills' lack of leadership.

Posted by jorge on April 1, 2007 at 6:26 PM

Very interesting Loren, as always.

My question is -- do your comments demonstrate how superior the Illini coaching has been and is? And what are the solutions?

This has certainly galled me as long as I've followed Illini basketball, which is since the 1963 season.

Posted by jeffh on April 2, 2007 at 11:02 AM

Mr Hunt and Mr. Jennings are unfortunately, typical Illini fans...

Posted by aratnakar on April 2, 2007 at 1:58 PM

I think Weber did a great job motivating this team into the NCAA Tournament with al the problems he had. He is a great coach with the "X and O's" but he had the number 2 team in the nation just two years ago. It should have helped the recruiting but in spite of that he got no blue chippers as they went elsewhere. He needs to bring back Dee Brown and put him in charge of recruiting!!!

Posted by dallen on April 2, 2007 at 4:15 PM

Sorry to disagree with Mr. Hunt, but this team was probably better than its record, or perhaps it would be better to say, more competitive than its record indicates. The last minute losses are not the sign of a good team -- offensively, -- yet they became the norm against some very strong teams.

Posted by jjohnson on April 2, 2007 at 6:55 PM

I was truly amazed that Bruce was able to take this team to 22 wins, that was an amazing coaching job. Keep in mind that he had limited talent available, AND they were unable to practice much of the year to improve!!!! I will give him a chance to show us what he sees in the recruits that he brings in, but I hope they improve on the 2-3 people he recruited that haven't helped much. We do expect major contributions from younger recruits due to their talent, not the need to "find bodies".

Posted by ranthony on April 2, 2007 at 7:45 PM

I do not believe that anyone ever questioned Derrick Rose's character. I think that most believe that he is a great kid. The question that most Illinois fans were asking, concerned the rumored $200,0000 shoe deal made with Reggie Rose's AAU team. We all know the Derrick's brother was in charge of his recruiting from start to finish. It did seem somewhat coincidental that Derrick had listed Illinois as one of his high interest teams from the begining and at the last minute his final list did not include Illinois and added several teams that were never before mentioned. Again,coincidentally,

all the teams on that list were sponsored by the same shoe company. Any one that believes that the last minute visit to Illinois was anything but an effort to quiet the shoe deal rumors (real or not)is an angle off of reality.

Posted by jarmstrong on April 3, 2007 at 9:08 AM

I am looking forward to the Big Ten of old where Illinois was at best the middle of the pack.

Posted by jarmstrong on April 3, 2007 at 12:31 PM

That is VERY old, pal. Mid 70's. You must lead quite an exciting life.

Posted by dthonn on April 3, 2007 at 1:48 PM

So, jarmstrong, I notice you didn't mention your team.

Posted by aratnakar on April 4, 2007 at 10:31 AM

"smokers apparently are deciding with less frequency to patronize smoke-free bars in Champaign-Urbana."

Really?? You have objective and undisputed statistical evidence to demonstrate this trend (which has only been since 1/31/07), or are you basing this statement off your own personal bias and a few loudmouth bar owners? Did it ever occur to you that some of these bar owners complaining about business loss were the same people acting hostile and outspokenly rude? Do you think that maybe people might not be going to those places for that reason? Some of these same owners were also recently observed on the steps of the state capitol with Steve Riedl of the ILBA and holding bullhorn shouting their rant(incidentally the ILBA head lobbyist was just arrested last weekend after they found him asleep and there was cocaine in his hotel room in Springfield....charming:

http://www.sj-r.com/sections/news/stories/111440.asp

Why does the NG keep saying and using the improper term "anti-smoking" towards council candidates and other folks on this issue instead of saying pro-clean indoor air or pro-smokefree or status quo (as the smokefree ordinance is now the status quo)? Also, why does the paper use the term zealot? I didn't think the majority of the public and the majority of the current city council that support the ordinance deserve that insulting label. Additionally "bar public smoking" is another misleading and loaded statement. The ordinance doesn't "bar public smoking" as the term infers, as it only states specifically where you can't smoke. You can go outside on a patio or whatever and puff away on your cigarette.

Nobody (at least that I am aware of) is against the habit of people choosing to smoke; rather it is where the smoking isn't permitted. For example: NG Publisher John Foreman can continue to smoke all the cigarettes he wants, just not around me in a restaurant or bar under the existing ordinance.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 4, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Believe, me, you do not want a statewide ban.

Chicagoans especially should know better with your prohibition history than to take the road again of the "noble" FAILED experiment.

Posted by Musician on April 4, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Antismokers are zealots. They take funding from big drug companies and spread their lies.

Drugs and death!! They knew this 20 years ago.

http://www.forces.org/writers/hatton/files/murder.htm

Another study, with a wider range, was 'Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial' (MRFIT) in the US. In this there were 12,866 subjects. They were all shown to be at risk of heart disease because

of their lifestyle and general health. (With 300 risk factors that's not surprising.)

One group was given drugs for high blood pressure, encouraged to eat more healthily, and to stop smoking. The other was left alone.

At the end of the MRFIT study, 41.2 per thousand of the 'healthy' group were dead, as against 40.4 per thousand of the other,which smoked.

Scientists investigating the study didn't like the results, and went over them again.

"They found that the drugs to reduce high blood pressure had in fact increased the death rate among the men given them."

Smoking,and thus SHS,does not kill. Drug company drugs,and the lies of their hirelings,do kill.

Posted by gkayser on April 4, 2007 at 4:05 PM

gkayer, I saw that revealing story about Big Pharma's direct connections to politicians on 60 minutes this past week and how many of them get jobs with the pharma lobbyists after leaving office. Talk about DISGUSTING.

It all adds up. Ask your doc tomorrow for all the ills you didn't know that you have after watching prime time commericials tonight.

If your doc is reputable and actually took the Hippocratic Oath, he'll send you on your way. Otherwise as Hoyt Axton said....

"GD the Pusher man"

Posted by Musician on April 4, 2007 at 4:11 PM

Smokers,and those exposed to smoke, have greatly reduced rates of Alzheimer's Disease and Parkinson's Disease. These are slow killers and require a great deal of medical and drug expense;about 10 times as much as,for instance,Lung Cancer.

Health groups that push for smoking bans are doing so to line the pockets of themselves and the drug companies that give them so much money.

Antismoking zealots are just the dupes of these greedy scum.

Business owners suffer for the profits of these uncaring big groups.

Posted by gkayser on April 4, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Oh, give me a break, gkayser. Ignoring the debate as to whether the state or local entities should control this issue, your comments may possibly be the most ridiculous I have ever read about this issue. Fewer smokers get Alzheimer's? Alzheimer's is a slow, expensive death, so people should smoke to avoid it? I really wonder what you've been smoking!

Posted by bretj on April 4, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Dear bretj,

Since over 1,000 municipalties in Illinois have chosen to not pass smoking(cleanair) bans; the issue is settled. The vast majority,98%,of the communities in this state do not feel it is a problem!

I await your evidence that I am wrong about smoking and these diseases.

Illinois has a terrible budjet problem;if we wish to reduce healthcare costs,policy that increases such costs are stupid and ill-advised. Unless you are on the take from the big drug companies;in which case, you would love causing said drug companies to make bigger profits from us.

As far back as the Surgeon General's report of 1967, it has been known that smoking at a rate of one pack per day or less has a protective effect against diseases.

Those people that smoke should not be made into second class citizens and discriminated against.

Posted by gkayser on April 4, 2007 at 5:40 PM

Excellent piece, as usual, Loren. The lack of ethics in both football and basketball sometimes makes me sick. Alford has reached a new low for the coaching world. Even $elf didn't try anything this low...

Posted by rbarnes on April 4, 2007 at 9:06 PM

I know a teacher of Demetri's at St. Joe. She says he's a complete class act, and he'll be an outstanding contribution to Illinois Basketball. I can't wait to see him in Orange and Blue!

Posted by rbarnes on April 4, 2007 at 9:11 PM

Congratulations Jim! You missed the final score by one point!!

Impressive!!!

Posted by hpaulh on April 4, 2007 at 11:41 PM

OK... so let's all call a Puritan a Puritan. You know, those people who impose their superior values on society in general. Instead of being concerned about their own lives and/or establishment, find it their moral responsibility to educate those less enlightened.

What the heck, if education isn't good enough.. or if the rest of us aren't interested in listening... just get a law passed. How sad must our political system be, to listen to the squeeky wheel?

Posted by erayr on April 5, 2007 at 9:43 AM

I am one of the people who worked to get the clean indoor air ordinance passed in Champaign-Urbana, and I can assure you that I have not received any money from the pharmaceutical companies. As for the ridiculous statement that those of us from Chicago should remember that "prohibition didn't work," no one is trying to prohibit the sale of tobacco products. Smokers are still welcome to light up in their homes, outdoors, and in their cars. They simply cannot light up in workplaces where they are forcing their co-workers, servers, or fellow patrons to inhale the carcinogens and other deadly gasses emitted by their cigarettes.

And no, tobacco products are not the only source of air pollution in this country. I, for one, am also active in other fights to clean up the environment, for which I do not receive any compensation. I have said it many times but apparently it needs to be repeated. No one is trying to take away a person's right to pursue happiness by lighting up a cigarette. We are simply defending the right to life of the person sitting next to him.

Posted by riweber on April 5, 2007 at 2:10 PM

riweber wrote:They simply cannot light up in workplaces where they are forcing their co-workers, servers, or fellow patrons to inhale the carcinogens and other deadly gasses emitted by their cigarettes.

The MRFIT study showed that smoking;and much less so SHS,is not hazardous or deadly. Any way,no one is forced to do anything. There are lots of nonsmoking places for servers and patrons to go to,if they do not like the smell of smoke.

Anti-smokers are just cry babies that want everything their way.

Posted by gkayser on April 5, 2007 at 2:58 PM

"and it appears obvious that Deedrich simply is not suited by character or temperament to hold a public office"

You could just as easily change the name Deedrich to Schweighart in that statement. Or does the NG overlook all the angry outbursts and bad tempered reactions made by Republican officials? One small examples to back that up:

1. A May 2005 public statement angrily made by the Mayor at a Champaign city council meeting stating a certin race needs to "know how to act" when stopped by the police. This was when annual police traffic stop demographic data was being reviewed during a meeting (what the Mayor's statement at that time had to do with the subject matter of the meeting is still beyond anyone's comprehension). Go get the tape at City hall and review it for yourself.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 6, 2007 at 3:38 PM

The difference between the Mayor's bad behavior and/or "angry outbursts and bad tempered reactions by Republican officials"? DEEDRICH IS GOING TO CAUSE CHAMPAIGN COUNTY PROPERTY OWNERS TO PAY MORE TAXES. Where will the money come from to pay the interest on loans for funds borrowed by taxing bodies, because the tax cycle will be delayed and the tax revenues will not be distributed to them on time? Out of the pockets of property owners in the form of higher taxes, of course! This situation was created by partisan politics, but it's gone fare beyond that now - it's about the havoc created by one incredibly conceited, completely uncooperative Supervisor of Assessments. He needs to be removed from office immediately.

Posted by outragedtaxpayer on April 6, 2007 at 5:55 PM

mattvarbl apparently sees no difference between a DULY ELECTED official speaking his thoughts and frustrations about actions of people showing disrespect towards police officers after a traffic stop and a POLITICALLY APPOINTED partisan hack changing the system of property tax collection to suit his fancy over a system that has been in place for years. If Deedrich's ideas have merit, perhaps they could be enacted at a time when the flow of tax income for the county / townships would not be disturbed to the point that they would be needful of borrowing funds to make it through their normal fiscal responsibilities. If Deedrich finds that "leadership is a difficult position", perhaps he should learn what is required in the position before accepting it, or find the help he needs by consulting with experienced people. Should Deedrich resign or be fired, lets hope that the county board would find someone more personable and experienced.

Posted by FReRydr on April 7, 2007 at 6:51 PM

Nicely put as always Loren, but one question -- where do the Illini fit in now, as you see it?

Posted by jeffh on April 8, 2007 at 2:33 PM

Now, supposedly, this obnoxious tax is going to provide 8 Billion in revenue. Wasn't it just last week it was going to generate only about 6 or 6.5 Billion?

This govenor has a bad habit of throwing away the PEOPLE'S money with programs that we cannot afford. What about the 250 Million spent on flu vaccines he wanted to re-import that the FDA wouldn't let back into the country? They couldn't be sold because by that time, they were too old and that flu season was technically over.

He seems to think that the buisnesses he wants to tax are going to remain in this state. Where will all the money come from when they move out of this state along with the jobs they provide? Why would any business even consider locating or expanding in Illinois with the anti-business atmosphere in this state?

We need fiscal responsibility in our government. Get spending under controll, pay for the programs that we are obligated to before deciding to spend more and more and more. I don't think we should allow this govenor to spend another dime on new programs until he shows some responsibility to reduce spending and pay the bills we are already obligated to.

Posted by FReRydr on April 8, 2007 at 6:50 PM

Great for the Big Ten but how does this impact Illinois.

Posted by jarmstrong on April 9, 2007 at 10:01 AM

The difference here though is that the News-gazette has focused unduly on Mr. Deedrich and criticizes him heavily while completely ignoring plenty of other and far more egregious examples of improper character or examples of public figures not having the temperament to hold a public office. So if anything FReRydr you're right; The Mayor of the City should be held to an even higher standard than he is and it is a travesty the NG lets those kinds of public statements go unaddressed and focusing more on appointed figures due to their political bias.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 9, 2007 at 11:42 AM

It would be wise to not take slaps at any other schools regarding the conduct of their athletes, especially after what has happened at Illinois the last year. All coaches are on pins and needles knowing that the next phone call they receive may be less than glorious news about one of their "scholar-athletes".

Posted by bstouffer on April 9, 2007 at 10:22 PM

The N-G tries to claim a neutral territory by speaking of "zealots on both sides."

Unfortunately this is not true: On one side there are those who want to ban smoking everywhere, step by step, from restaurants, to bars, to casinos, to parks, to cars, to condominiums, to workers, to private apartments and public housing, and finally to families who have kids or live in attached row homes "where deadly poisons might migrate through the walls".

And then there are those on the other side who have no problem with reasonable smoking and nonsmoking areas with decent ventilation systems set up. There has never yet been a scientific study showing any long term harm from the low levels of smoke that would be found in any decently ventilated modern bar or restaurant. If you actually READ the Surgeon General's Report rather than just listen to his "announcement" abou it, you'll find that all the studies involve such things as intense smoke chambers, 40 years of living/working with antiquated ventilation systems, or symptoms like itchy throats and red eyes that have nothing to do with long term cancers or heart disease. Read the studies, not the paid press releases by well-funded groups.

Michael J. McFadden

Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com

Posted by Cantiloper on April 9, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Gillispie is twice the coach Rick Barnes is . Kentucky will be better right away . And they will be a national force to be reckoned with for the next 15 years under his energetic leadership .

Posted by rbess on April 10, 2007 at 7:11 AM

Boy, I hope the glass is half-full rather than half-empty.

Posted by jjohnson on April 10, 2007 at 11:43 AM

Loren, great article as always. I think you've made a excellent point that even with all the great things going on with Illinois football, the previous Coach left things in such a poor state, that its going to take a while for Zook and his staff to turn things around..

We all just need to be patient..

Posted by aratnakar on April 10, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Patient...my goodness Illinois fans personify the word!

Posted by dallen on April 10, 2007 at 3:14 PM

So what are the alternatives Dallen?

Posted by aratnakar on April 10, 2007 at 4:16 PM

Loren, many of these 30 players you referenced were part of the "Bigger, faster, stronger" contingent you wrote about a few years ago. Now, they were recruiting mistakes? I don't know what to believe any more.

Posted by mbeesley on April 10, 2007 at 10:42 PM

Our government needs to change.

HB 1100 already approved by the House would allow illegal aliens to drive legally.

Effective 1/1/2006 SB1623 allowed the consular identification document to be used as ID in illinois.

The FBI has this to say about Mexico's consular ID's

Since Mexico's Matricula Consular is currently the predominant consular ID card in existence, I will focus my comments today on this particular card. It is believed that consular ID cards are primarily being utilized by illegal aliens in the United States."

The proponents of the driving bill say it will make us safer. Yet they have 30 days to provide proof of insurance before "they may lose the certificate"

If they are willing to drive without a license and without insurance, and they don't pass the drivers test there is nothing to stop them from driving.

It is expected that about half of those eligible will actually get this id. So the rest?

How does this make the citizens of this state safer?

Why are we asked to continue supporting the corrupt, bankrupt policies?

Our state government needs to stop asking us to support illegal immigrants, illegal drivers, and fake ids.

Our state government needs to support us, the citizens, the voters.

Enough.

Posted by wmb on April 11, 2007 at 12:01 PM

My heart goes out to Chester and his family, and I'm sure all of us feel the same.

I agree with Ron Guenther that this was an exceptional job by Coach Weber and his staff in getting this team to 23 wins and into the tournament and "that close" to a first round upset. I'm proud Bruce is our coach and I hope he is for many more years -- if so, I'm confident we'll all be pleased with the results in the long run.

Posted by jeffh on April 11, 2007 at 12:16 PM

As much as we would all like to see B R have a big

breakout season, I am beginning to think that he

may just be the Mark Pryor of UI basketball, in

terms of his seemingly endless injuries

Posted by walker on April 11, 2007 at 12:53 PM

Of course they will...

Nobody expected Republicans to object to the corruption during their reign, it was the Democrats who objected and eventually brought it to light. Now the tables have turned. It is the Republicans duty to point out the corruption. The role of the "loyal opposition" is to keep the ruling regime honest.

Posted by DEB on April 11, 2007 at 1:02 PM

great post jeffh!

Posted by aratnakar on April 11, 2007 at 1:06 PM

I just called Mark Sheldon's office. Did you know that there is zero, none, nada proof required of US citizenship to vote.

Wonder why your vote doesn't count?

Posted by wmb on April 11, 2007 at 1:21 PM

Nothing about Illinois politics surprises me. People in this state have lived so long with corruption at all levels that I believe they do not honestly recognize that an act is illegal. Thank God for Louisiana. Without them Illinois would be THE most corrupt state in the country.

Posted by TaxpayerGuy on April 11, 2007 at 10:11 PM

Weber has got some nice talent coming in but he will have to develope them...all the other "blue chip" guys are going to other schools. There is no "automatics".

Posted by dallen on April 12, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Q -- Welcome the the Illini! Glad to have you and the best of luck!

Posted by jeffh on April 12, 2007 at 1:01 PM

I think this class looks as good as any incoming

group we have seen in recent years. Of course,

only time will tell, but let's all admit that our

coaching staff are not recruiting failures.

Posted by walker on April 12, 2007 at 1:39 PM

I need some of the kool-aid that walker drinks! Very funny post Mr. Walker. It's good to pause for a laugh in the middle of a working afternoon.

Posted by dstork on April 12, 2007 at 3:12 PM

This sounds like a great find and signing. I am happy for Coach Weber and his staff for being able to recover so well and quickly from the EG debacle. Next season is looking much brighter.

Posted by Lanse on April 12, 2007 at 4:14 PM

If the Big Ten is serious about this broad distribution thing, then they also need to promptly sign Dish Network. Then they would have the two largest non-cable (satellite) suppliers nationwide. CBS made a big mistake in my opinion to make exclusive arranagements with only DirecTV for the NCAA tourney coverage. The broader the coverage the better in terms of conference exposure and national prestige.

Posted by Lanse on April 12, 2007 at 4:19 PM

I agree with walker; a very solid recruiting class this year and not finished yet. Of course, time will tell but I think this class will definitely keep us competing for the Big Ten title and deeper runs in the NCAA tourney. I'm sure the '08 class will be the frosting on the cake.

And, hey, dstork, why don't you go pick another team to drag down. We don't need "fans?" like you. You should spend more time at work working instead of posting stupid comments like the one posted above.

Posted by fheadington on April 12, 2007 at 8:49 PM

We beat out perenial powers Nevada, Utah and San Diego State for Mr. Watkins. It's my understanding that no major programs offered Tisdale or Cole. I've seen McCamey play twice - he's solid. I hope for the best, but this likely isn't a class that will have us competing for Big Ten titles. Look at the classes that the Spartans and Buckeyes garnered if you want to see Big Ten championship type recruiting. It was our conference for six years and we truly were an elite program. It appears to the realists out there that we have ceded control to the Spartans and Buckeyes. As for fheadington's comments, he should do his homework. Further, its fans like me that have helped keep all Illini programs financially afloat for the past twenty years through the I Fund and season tickets in both football and basketball. Can you say the same fheadington? The first step to getting better is admitting there's a problem.

Posted by dstork on April 12, 2007 at 11:35 PM

LOL, dallen... when it comes to football, I'd say Illini fans are just about as patient as it gets - we haven't had a choice!

That said, I know there will still be struggles on offense this year, but let's not forget that a true freshman QB led this offense to 2nd half leads against Wisconsin, Penn State, and Purdue. I'm not looking for Joe Montana...

I think if Juice can resemble Reggie Ball, we could win 7 if our defense is as good as we expect it to be.

That's really not a stretch...

Posted by dpetersen on April 13, 2007 at 9:07 AM

I'm with dstork. This class looks pretty average to me. Purdue, OSU, Mich State and IU all dramatically better than our class. Let's be honest -- we need recruiting help.

Posted by vreato on April 13, 2007 at 10:02 AM

Loren,

I think you are right about the 5 foul rule, however, how many do you think is appropriate?

Also, the worst rule in college basketball is the 35 second shot clock. It needs to be moved back to 45 seconds so that offenses have time to develop a shot. These guys are not NBA players who can create their own offense..

Posted by aratnakar on April 13, 2007 at 1:30 PM

dstork talks about someone else doing homework when making a statement like, "It is my understanding that no major programs offered Cole or Tisdale." There was just today an article on Scout.com about how Cole was Wisconsin's #1 recruiting priority for this class, so you clearly don't know what you are talking about. It is my understanding that UCLA made a late push for Q and I believe Wash. St. also wanted him. So, keep sending your money, dstork, but get a clue! I think this class will prove to be outstanding when all is said and done.

Posted by jeohaver on April 13, 2007 at 3:40 PM

I don't think Weber has recruited Illinois finest which is disparing since it is the home state but the guy can coach and Illinois could be a #5 seed next year...the potential is there and Weber can pull it out of them, maybe...but just why is it that we can't get the "blue chipper's" from Illinois...our home state where we should have a distinct advantage. Help me understand...anybody!?

Posted by dallen on April 14, 2007 at 12:00 AM

Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana, and Purdue all had classes reanked ahead of our Illini. Unfortunately, wishing for something doesn't make it so.

Posted by dstork on April 14, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Loren, I like the player-five-foul-plus-technical rule.

I would also suggest a team-ten-foul-plus-per-half- technical rule as well.

Though one negative is that it makes such fouls more penal and the refs may be less likely to call them ... giving more aggressive/physical teams an advantage.

Posted by ccherry on April 14, 2007 at 7:34 AM

Just a thought-wouldn't it be a good idea to have a "show your driver's license day"? These kids should be able to be bonded; if they can pass an investigation someone should be aware of it.

Posted by bstouffer on April 14, 2007 at 11:37 AM

if they can't pass-oops

Posted by bstouffer on April 14, 2007 at 11:37 AM

A comment on the story: After following this recuitment since the E.G. situation, I am glad that we got someone who seems to be regarded as being one of the most talented players in that region. Watkins plays in a conference whose talent and competition compares with that of Chicago. Many of the recruits we get are stars in conferences that aren't as competitive top to bottom (San Gabriel valley in LA is one of many). I always remember that these "4-5 star" rankings can be very spotty (see Deron Williams rank vs Bracey Wright) when it comes to forecasting who will really contribute. I also keep in mind that the rankings normally indicate offensive potential , (IMO) and before they recieve intense defensive work. I say that, because Weber seems to turn average talent into defensive teams that compete for every single game. Who knows?

(Unsolicited) comment on the postings:..

Nothing personal about any of the posters, but one seems like they are a very knowlegeable, smart , illini fan who is used to the rough and tumble postings on the fansites online. As a fan, I can really appreciate your knowlege as insight, it shows that you are truly interested and a passionate fan, nothing wrong with that! However, I can also see how an average fan might not be used to or appreciate the biting remark.....

I am glad that we have different view points and different angles to debate, I hope we can keep it all focused on the team.

Posted by ranthony on April 15, 2007 at 1:08 AM

Shock and amazement, even though this is a non-partisan race, the News-Gazette supports the candidates with Republican backing/ties for city council. I'm sure nobody is surprised that the paper is choosing based on party afiliation and what is best for the affluent and caucasian people, rather than experience and what is best for the community as a whole.

Posted by justinm on April 15, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Big question yet to be answered-is Juice Williams anything more than a right-handed Bobby Douglass?

Posted by bstouffer on April 15, 2007 at 2:43 PM

Put the basketball players in a complex on campus and don't allow them to have cars. Crikey.

Posted by ralexander on April 15, 2007 at 3:55 PM

I don't think it is too early to say the defense looks tremendous

Posted by jjohnson on April 15, 2007 at 6:19 PM

Since when did the NG care about somebody's education and professional background in making an endorsement? In 2005 your paper supported Vic McIntosh who voted to spend close to $500,000 in TIF funds on the North 1st Street Lodge which was a total flop and went into foreclosure and when I brought this up at the editorial board meeting it was met with blank stares. Compared to my professional education and background with that past voting history of the incumbent, there wasn't any argument about who was more "qualified" and now we see the hypocrisy in the papers methodology and basis for decision making. Your editorial should at least try to be intellectually honest and say that you support Republican candidates for City Council as your prior decisions along with this one reaffirm that thesis as opposed to objective criteria you purport to use.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 16, 2007 at 8:20 AM

"Finally, the voters spoke loud and clear on the issue, and council members should accept that decision."

It's interesting you state that when it's an issue the paper agrees with, but when presented with data showing "loud and clear" public support for the smoking ban you consistently fail to make the same assertion that council members should "accept that decision" and instead reference the vote to implement the smoking ban was "wrong".

Posted by mattvarbl on April 16, 2007 at 8:38 AM

Pretty good crop of kids but it will take Weber's superior coaching skills to make guys like this competitive in the Big Ten...Grade B-

Posted by dallen on April 17, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Dallen, that is about as optimistic a comment that I have read from you. This must be good news for the Illini since you are obviously a recruiting guru.

Posted by bbabcock on April 17, 2007 at 9:24 PM

Solid class top to bottom filling all needs and positions. We will be competing for Big 10 titles once again and winning many NCAA tourney games.

Go ILLINI

Posted by faro on April 17, 2007 at 10:05 PM

HERE COMES THE ILLINI's VERSION OF THE FAB FIVE. YOU WATCH LADIES AND GENTLEMEN..... MAYBE NOT THIS YEAR, BUT THE FOLLOWING YEAR THE ILLINI WILL BE A TOP TEN TEAM. COACH WEBER WILL TRULY SHOW THAT HE IS ONE OF THE TOP FIVE COACHES IN THE NCAA BY HOW HE GETS THIS TEAM TO PLAY TOGETHER AND PLAY WITHERING DEFENSE AND A TEAM ORIENTED---GET THE BALL TO THE OPEN MAN -- OFFENSE....AND, WITH LUCK, WE WILL BE BACK IN THE SWEET 16 AND BEYOND.

CONGRATULATIONS COACH WEBER AND THE ENTIRE COACHING STAFF ON A FANTASTIC RECRUITING YEAR THE LIKES OF WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE THE ILLINI HAVE EVER SEEN..NOT IN ONE YEAR AT LEAST.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 18, 2007 at 1:43 AM

Guitaraxe, that is just not true.

The 2002 class had four consensus top 100 players, including a McDonald's All-American.

This class has one.

Posted by ralexander on April 18, 2007 at 1:56 AM

oh my gosh. It is as if you read my mind. A friend of mine contended that the "FIX WAS IN" by the NCAA in the UCLA vs. FLA game. The second call on Affalo was a phantom call if I have ever seen one. My friend contended that the NCAA would never --- ever---- change this rule because it allows them to totally control any game that they want to....... see the University of Illinois vs. North Carolina----championship game a couple of years ago, and for further reference, see, the University of Illinois vs. Duke Corporation... I mean, Duke University the year before. In both instances they called ticky tack fouls on the Illini's only big man... James Augustine early in the game, leading James Augustine to have a virtually non-existent performance, thereby giving the Illini no chance to actually win the game. I attended the UofI vs. Duke game in Atlanta. I sat right next to a whole group of Xavier fans. I overheard them talking amongst themselves about.... "How obvious it is that the Illini were getting absolutely no calls." And one guy stood up during a time-out and screamed about 3-4 times...... "THE FIX IS IN, THE IS IN, DUKE UNIVERSITY WILL SURELY WIN." And the whole group of Xavier supporters laughed and laughed. It wasn't so funny if you were an Illini fan that day.!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 18, 2007 at 2:35 AM

All I can say is great article. After reading this all I could think is... "Geez, I hope he really does become a star because he truly seems to be a nice young man and one that kids could look up to and that the average fan can respect---and not only for his athletic ability.,... Good Luck Juice. All of the Illini nation is pulling for you.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 18, 2007 at 3:11 AM

Ralexander, that is simply not true. McCamey and Watkins are ranked in top 100. Many have Cole as a top 100 guy. Richard McBride was ranked #28 and although I think he got the most of his ability he certainly didn't live up to the lofty ranking. What does it mean to be a MD'S AA now anyway. Josh McRoberts? How is that guy going pro? He's terrible. I like this class alot, would've liked to seen Gordon in O&B but it didn't happen, we move on.

Posted by dnaour on April 18, 2007 at 12:30 PM

remember everyone, we have Dallen's approval and that is all that matters...

Posted by aratnakar on April 18, 2007 at 12:43 PM

remember everyone, we have Dallen's approval and that is all that matters...

Posted by aratnakar on April 18, 2007 at 12:43 PM

remember everyone, we have Dallen's approval and that is all that matters...

Posted by aratnakar on April 18, 2007 at 12:43 PM

sorry, about the triple posting

Posted by aratnakar on April 18, 2007 at 12:44 PM

This is not a surprise given recent trends. I might suggest that Illinois could do a lot worse than consider Carolyn Peck, who was recently released by the University of Florida. You will recall that she was very successful at Purdue and coached the Orlando women's professional team prior to moving to Gainesville to coach the Gators.

Posted by Lanse on April 18, 2007 at 3:49 PM

It is the same "merde" different day. "Can't recruit Chicago.....blah blah blah." Or, my personal favorite, "The public league Coaches don't like the Illini's Head Basketball Coach." I have an idea. Let's go out and hire the best public league Coach, who knows all of the coaches and is at least respected by them...if not liked. Then, let's see what happens 4 years later. There will be the opposite problem. We would hear that, "the Illini just cannot attract any of the downstate talent." I think they call it. "caught between a rock and a hard place." Or something like that. Good luck to Coach Guenther in finding Coach Grentz' replacement.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 19, 2007 at 5:06 AM

I have been telling my firends for years that the worst rule in all sports is the 5 foul rule. After the 5th foul a "T" is fine or the opposing team gets their two freethrows and the ball out of bounds.

Posted by jgillespie on April 19, 2007 at 9:14 AM

I've always liked the idea of the women's team returning to Huff Hall. It's much easier to fill up the stands, and would give the Illini a much better home court advantage than they could ever get at the Assembly Hall.

Posted by dgcrow on April 19, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Let's hope that C.J. can be of some help to our

football team and free up another '08 basketball

spot for a future recruit. It doesn't appear that

he will be much of a factor on the court even

though he seems like a top quality young man.

Posted by walker on April 19, 2007 at 12:29 PM

congratulations to Coach Weber and his staff. For all of the grief the poor man has received i would love for someone like Loren Tate write an article which is about how the U of I------despite incredible obstacles and slander and innuendo, have signed one of the best recruiting classes in their history and in the NCAA this year. Awesome job Coach Weber.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 20, 2007 at 3:37 AM

Kudos to guitaraxe1 for his comment...yes, we lost out on Gordon, but we have two 4 star and two 3 star recruits coming in, plus Alexander. I think we are in fine shape, good job Coach!

Posted by bcorcorn on April 20, 2007 at 8:23 AM

I'm sure that if you make a SIZEABLE "donation" to either mr. Blago's campaign fund or mr. Emiljones' campaign fund AND/OR one of their favorite charities they would probably find or create a new HIGH PAYING government (as in paid for by the taxpayers) position that has few requirements (as in time or responsibilities)for you to put on your resume.

Posted by FReRydr on April 20, 2007 at 12:22 PM

Best classes in in their history? No.

In the NCAA this year? No.

This class is barely 5th or 6th in the BIG TEN, and barely top 30 nationally.

But denial and make-believe are fun.

Posted by ralexander on April 21, 2007 at 7:20 AM

Awesome news for Snacks. Truly is.

Posted by mbeesley on April 22, 2007 at 3:30 PM

Klee

Heard that Billie G promised Patrick Patterson 16-20 shots a game to come to UK. is Billie already warming up the snake oil? Rex Chapman did not even take 15 shots a game, and that dude had no conscience.

Posted by optimator on April 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM

The snake oil! Coach Gillispie is a recruiting machine, that's for sure. Good stat on King Rex, a true gunner, who averaged 14.4 shots at UK in 87-88. We need more gunners. Let it fly!

-pk

Posted by pklee on April 25, 2007 at 9:59 AM

What's SP thinking? there is no scenario by which

he has even a slim chance to be drafted. Let's

hope that he develops a jump shot and works on

his free throws so he can even be a factor next

year in college

Posted by walker on April 25, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Say it ain't so, Shaun. You still have the chance to get the court time and coaching that will make you a better player and increase your value if the pros do decide you should be one of them. Your improvement has been phenomenal, but your coaches know there are several points that need work. You're only young once; enjoy it!

Posted by jjohnson on April 25, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Shaun will be good NBA player as long as all the teams that he plays against agree to back off and let him turn to his left. Otherwise stay in school and continue to develop his skills!

Posted by thornyton on April 25, 2007 at 2:11 PM

walker and jjohnson, you must be quite dense if you think Pruitt has any serious aspirations of the NBA, or that there is any chance he won't be back next year.

This is exactly what Roger Powell did after the '04 season - you put your name in, get some individual workouts, maybe get invited to a camp, get your name out there, and get more attention for the big push to be drafted next season.

He'll be back, and even if he's not, who are we to judge what he does with HIS life?

Posted by ralexander on April 25, 2007 at 3:05 PM

Lots of promise especailly if he approves his numbers for a good Illinois team...but he is not ready for the NBA yet...I agree, he needs to work of his free throws and mid range shot!

Posted by dallen on April 25, 2007 at 5:21 PM

At first glance this decision by Shaun is absolutely ludicrous. I mean, come on, he can't possibly be so deluded as to think that he would be able to compete with the big guys in the NBA night after night when it was a well known fact amongst the coaches in the Big Ten that Shaun had the ability to get up and down the court for only about 5 minutes per half and from there on out he was totally gassed. Granted, his conditioning was far better this past season as compared to 05-06 season, it still is not anywhere near NBA caliber.

But, after I thought about this further, I came to the realization that this could be the very best thing that could ever happen to Shaun and to the University of Illinois. If you believe that the NBA teams wiil make him work his butt off to see his conditioning, and will make him demonstrate his lack of moves and finesse as well as his horrid free throw shooting---- potentially, Shaun could come to the realization that .."Oh My Gosh, I have a long way to go and I better get my ample rear in gear."

Then, this could be the positive jolt that Shaun Pruitt could take into this season for the U of I and maybe pass by that last donut at the cafeteria and maybe he will stop drinking coke and start drinking water and start eating chicken and steak instead of 5 or 6 Big Macs at one sitting..........

Posted by guitaraxe1 on April 26, 2007 at 4:19 AM

The legislation is not stalled in the house as the smoking ban bill was passed out of the Illinois House Environmental Committee today (10 Representatives voting yes and 2 voting against) and is headed to the Illinois House floor for a vote.

Also it's interesting you quote Vic McIntosh now saying he wants to look at a compromise to exempt class A liquor license holders and private clubs, which is exactly what was before him during a study session on September 13, 2005 and he voted no to that very same compromise and a total ban was passed in May of 2006. Vic is a smoker and all he desires to do is to repeal the ordinance in order to suit his own habits as opposed to what is desired by the majority of the public.

If they want to look at economic analysis data a minimum time frame of 1 year must past and then it would be compared to the 2 prior years in order for the study to be valid. Maybe somebody should tell Vic to go talk to an economist.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 26, 2007 at 1:07 PM

Let's get to the central core of this issue,which every anti smoker is trying to ignore. The 4th amendmendment clearly stipulates that a ban in a private enterprise is unconstitutional. You cannot tell that buisness how to go about it's work,especially when it is allowing a legal product to be enjoyed on those premises. Excercise a little personal responsibility and go somewhere that doesn't cater to smoker's,it's that simple!

Posted by mycroft74 on April 26, 2007 at 2:37 PM

Uh, that argument is incoherent because there are already many health and sanitary regulations that are applied to businesses. Those establishements aren't private the minute they allow the general public to come in the door.

Posted by mattvarbl on April 26, 2007 at 2:55 PM

Um, the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution doesn't say anything -- clearly or otherwise -- that a ban in a private enterprise is unconstitutional. Businesses aren't mentioned at all.

It says: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You're arguing that a business is a private place AND that banning smoking would be an unreasonable search (? not a chance) or seizure. First off, how is a bar private? Nothing is seized unless somebody is smoking something that has been banned. If somebody waved a gun at someone in that same business, would it be unreasonable to seize it? The argument is that smoking can be just as deadly.

You might as well call smoking free speech and invoke the First Amendment. Or the Second Amendment and make cigarettes equivalent to guns and say we have the right to bear them wherever we want.

Give me a break.

Posted by bretj on April 26, 2007 at 4:10 PM

The main objection to the smoking ban in the nightclub/bar establishments seems to be the loss of revenue to the point of terminating workers and shorter opening times. If the non-smokers who proposed and want this ordinance to continue would flock to the establishments to make up for the lost renevue from smokers going to places they can smoke, this would be a moot point. Most non-smokers, however, are not in the habit of frequenting nightclubs/bars to the point of spending enough money for the profit of the clubs to stay in business.

The "anti-smoking coalition" does not care about the fiscal health of the businesses most affected by their non-smoking ordinance, they just can't stand the thought of someone smoking, even if they personally are not directly affected.

If the "anti-smoking coalition" were truly concerned about everyone's health (as they suggest)they would be working to ban tobacco sales and consumption in the whole world. That will never happen because of the exhorbanant taxes collected from tobacco sales. Government is more addicted to the tax revenue than the smokers are to nicotene.

It seems to me that Vic McIntosh is trying to represent some of his constituants (the bar owners and smokers)who want this ordinance repealed or revised to where the bar owners could choose to be smoke-free or not. The recent election seemed to be focused on the non-smoking issue and the people who were elected ran on the fact they would reevaluate the issue. I think they should.

Posted by FReRydr on April 26, 2007 at 4:28 PM

So where are all the knuckleheads from yesterday deriding Shaun for his "decision"?

Posted by ralexander on April 26, 2007 at 9:32 PM

If this comes to pass, I trust that the central illinois media with heed the above comments from Coach Williams. Ask Jeffrey once about his dad, then drop it forever.

Posted by jturner on April 27, 2007 at 9:39 AM

Don't count on it; the media will hound Jeffrey and his dad everytime he comes down to watch his kid play.

Posted by dguire on April 27, 2007 at 10:21 AM

This is something that needs serious attention,and the only thing the legislators can think about is intruding upon peoples lives with a smoking ban. I think some of these lawmakers need to get thier priorities straight! First work on this power problem,secondly get the state out of the red,then and only then do you start with this intrusion upon the 4th amendment! better yet do us all a favor and get over it.

Posted by mycroft74 on April 27, 2007 at 12:04 PM

so if the general public comes to my door,then my home is no longer private property? sounds like you are on very shaky ground right there. Also, what about all the chemicals used for cleaning with fumes that are detrimental to ones health,not to mention all the carcinogens released into the air when alcohol evaporates,one shot of liquor is equal to about 100,000 cigarettes,but yet the health codes do not close them down for being un sanitary! personal responsibility,if you don't like it go someplace else.

Posted by mycroft74 on April 27, 2007 at 12:16 PM

Since when has the NCAA done anything that makes sense recently?

Posted by dgcrow on April 27, 2007 at 1:25 PM

Weber will get the best out of the kid...he couldn't be under a better teacher. It is also a great recruiting tool for Illinois to get others in that lucrative Chicago area. It is a good move! He is no "blue chip" recruit but will be a great success story for the Illinois!

Posted by dallen on April 27, 2007 at 6:52 PM

I hope the kid gets a break...but drinking and driving is such a bad move. May he learn from his faulty thinking and get going again. I feel for him and pray that he can get through this.

Posted by dallen on April 27, 2007 at 6:55 PM

If you watched the Phoenix Suns play game two

in the playoffs with LA Lakers(Brian Cook saw

action),you couldn't help feeling like you were

watching our Illini from two years ago .Running

up and down the floor, making incredible passes,

it was exciting.

Mike England

Arizona

Posted by mengland on April 27, 2007 at 7:16 PM

Doesn't the Fourth Amendment protect you from illegal search and seizure? I don't see how that relates to a public smoking ban.

Posted by arvid on April 27, 2007 at 9:06 PM

When will the NCAA abolish itself?

Posted by mbeesley on April 28, 2007 at 12:45 AM

We, as a family, will miss The Chief ! I expect the three-in-one to remain, and hope the fans can feel a bit more warmly toward The NCAA 'annointed ones'..

Personally, I'd like to see a movement for everyone to wear a large, Chief type feather to all the games. Perhaps we can be the Illini Feathers, and am sure this would aggravate the 'bad guys' that wounded us all.

Posted by raycarlson on April 30, 2007 at 11:01 AM

What would you expect from President Brand leadership! I read a quote from him regarding proposed legislation that might affect the NCAA, his comment, paraphrased, " ...We feel are member institutions should have autonomy...". How would you like to be the person at the NCAA selected to make sure nobody is text messaging?

Posted by hpaulh on April 30, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Are "Michigan's Ref's" coming again this year?

Posted by Acunningham on May 1, 2007 at 1:05 PM

One down (Rich) and another to go (J S)

Posted by walker on May 1, 2007 at 1:36 PM

I do not think a bigger deal should be made out of this than it already has been. Kids will be kids. This is part of the learning process of how a young man needs to handle his affairs. If Calvin Brock has learned his lesson on keeping up on his personal affairs then this will have been a lesson learned. Hopefully he understands that he is, as all Illini Basketball players are, under the microscope. That being the case, it is important to not give the press or the fans reason to cast aspersions on his chararcter.

Maybe Coach Weber can assign a Assistant Coach or one of the Student Managers the assignment of keeping all of the Illini's student athletes up to date with their Driving Priviliges. These kids are a bit busier than your average student and might need a little bit of help in keeping up with some of the requirements that are involved with obtaining, and keeping their driving priviliges in good standing.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on May 3, 2007 at 5:41 AM

Back in 1997, when the taste of Ron Guenther's raid on the volleyball promotion budget and Mike Hebert's departure for Minnesota was still bitter in my mouth, I told Dave Loane that I would be impressed with Coach Grentz when she actually delivered on her promises. Coach Hebert's Golden Gophers have been to two volleyball Final Fours and lost a heartbreaking Elite Eight match to eventual champion Nebraska last Fall. What did Coach Grentz do beside get the team in the Assembly Hall? Not much.

Posted by jgrout on May 3, 2007 at 1:04 PM

Another slap in the face for the sometimes revered Governor James Edgar. He eliminated elected trustees, saying that the public is too ignorant for democratic processes to function. Actually, he just wanted more patronage jobs for himself and his cronies. The News Gazette thought that was a wonderful move, agreeing with Edgar completely. With this editorial the N-G can say they were against democracy before they were for it. Hmmm.... where have we heard that before?

Elected trustees, of course, are partisan hacks, elected according to their party label instead of a platform. Elections mean more diversity in ideas and partisanship than either Edgar or the N-G could tolerate just a few years ago. Now of course they are temporarily out of power, and an evil Democratic governor gets to make the patronage appointments. Patronage in the other guys hands: Evil. Patronage in my hands: priceless.

Posted by DEB on May 3, 2007 at 4:38 PM

For once, your editorial on this matter is fairly well reasoned. The only thing that's missing is an opinion about Mayor Schweighart's proposal to repeal the Champaign smoking ban on May 15th. It clearly is a waste of time and resources of the Public and Champaign City staff to go through all this turmoil again for a policy change that will be irrelevant in 7 months. Additionally there is no data to back up the proposal from the Mayor either, which isn't surprising considering that he still publicly states that 2nd hand smoke isn't harmful. Anyone else see his actions being based out of personal animosity, his personal smoking habit, and his desire for a petty form of revenge? Absent any data, that's all his actions are based upon. What a sound policy decision...sheesh

Posted by mattvarbl on May 4, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Apparently, mattvarbl doesn't realize that the council members who won their respective elections were running on the platform of revisiting the "smoking ban" to revise it to the benefit of their constituents who also helped to get them elected. He (mvarbl) must be harboring animosity toward the fine mayor of Champaign as noted by his venomous attacks.

As far as being a waste of time, effort, etc., couldn't the same be said of the original smoking ban ordinance since the state has now changed it's collective mind and has now passed a state-wide public smoking ban over the original bill that allowed local communities to decide for themselves? What about all the lobbying, time, and arguments both in the state legislature and then locally to get the original bills and ordinances passed? Are they not also a "waste of time and resourses" of five or more years?

God speed to Champaign's mayor and city council to do what they were elected to do.

By the way, I am a non-smoker of over 23 years that doesn't like the smell of cigarette smoke any more than other non-smokers. That is not what this is about... this is about control over private businesses that are open to patrons some of which prefer to smoke a legal substance.

Posted by FReRydr on May 4, 2007 at 2:16 PM

FreRydr, I have stated facts about past actions and statements of the Mayor and he has not presented any data or facts to back up his actions, absent that it lends itself to the logical conclusion that his decision is based upon personal animosity and vindictiveness. Did the City Council members Feinen and McIntosh not state that they "wanted to look at data" before making a decision on this issue? Wasn't Vic McIntosh quoted in an editorial approximately one week ago claiming they wanted to wait until June to begin examining the data? The number of flip flops here is too many to keep track of and it's an interesting double standard of how the Council demanded input, data, and a study session after study session before making this policy, but now all of a sudden it's going to be reversed without the same standards imposed before the ban was voted on in the first place?

Posted by mattvarbl on May 4, 2007 at 2:56 PM

Sec. 2-75. Study sessions.

(b) Regular study sessions of the Council shall be held on the second and fourth Tuesdays of each month beginning at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. If possible, all major items of legislation shall be discussed in a study session prior to their being included as agenda items for a regular Council meeting. Because the study session is an important part of the overall decision making process, it is essential that all such sessions proceed in an orderly and efficient manner.

(C.B. No. 2006-272, § 1, 11-7-06)

Posted by mattvarbl on May 4, 2007 at 3:05 PM

Perhaps after all the study sessions previously undertaken, and since the ban has been in effect and the businesses have lost the patrons who smoke(and not gained the non-smoking patrons that were said would flock to the now non-smoking establishments to support the businesses)the mayor is being pressured to revisit the ban ordinance to try to have it overturned. Businesses can only support so much loss before they can no longer cover their bills and enough profit to make it worthwhile. When businesses close there is a loss of tax revenue, which leads to empty buildings, etc.

If someone does not like to be around smoke, sacond hand or othwise, they do not have to patronize a business that allows smoking. They have the perogitive to open a business that caters to a non-smoking public since there is such a demand for such businesses, and put their money on the line, rather than forcing existing businesses (that have allowed smoking since their opening) to go smoke-free and lose the patrons they had.

This "smoke-free" ordinance is a "big-brother" control legislation, because the people of the "smoke-free alliance" don't like someone else's habits, period. That is obvious from the fact that they have not patronized the businesses since the ban has taken effect they supposedly they were eager to that the only thing holding them back was the smoking issue!

Posted by FReRydr on May 4, 2007 at 4:40 PM

FReRydr:

I don't agree with the often-stated argument that it's inherently wrong for govermnent to regulate private businesses open to the public.

There are plenty of examples of regulation of private businesses, particularly where the health and safety of the public is involved. The longstanding regulations on food safety are a prime example. Likewise, various levels of government regulate medications and those who practice medicine. Government regulates the disposal of hazardous wastes and the use and transportation of flammable or otherwise hazardous substances.

Those who proclaim the unfairness of a law prohibiting smoking within a private business ignore the long precedent on private businesses where the health and safety of the public is at risk, and ignore historical evidence that the marketplace alone does not always adequately represent the public interest.

I favor neither excessive regulation nor a pure laissez-faire stance. However, the dangers posed by second-hand carcinogens are just as legitimate a target for regulation as regulations prohibiting the sale of tainted meat.

The opponents of public smoking restrictions would have us believe we're prohibitionists because (at long last) society has finally recognized the harm smoking causes to non-smokers who have to share space with those who smoke. Smokers remain free to exercise their habit in private.

Posted by JRR on May 4, 2007 at 4:57 PM

jrr,

The Whole point is that non-smokers do not "have to" patronize a business that allows smoking!!! Smoking and consuming tobacco products is NOT against the law (yet)! Non-smokers, or for that matter smokers, can just as easily open a business that caters to non-smokers by disallowing smoking in their establishment and let established businesses choose to allow smoking if they choose to!

Where is your "nanny state" mentality going to stop? Fatty foods and McDonalds is probably next on your agenda, then what? Regulating the ammount of exersize individuals must do each day no matter how tired they are after their normal daily activities? Then what, bicycle powered cars to remove the SUV's from the road? Where does your nanny state stop?

Why can't you people create your own establishments and keep them non-smoking as you wish and stop forcing your laws/ordinces on people who prefer to go to a smoking allowable establishment????!!!!!

Posted by FReRydr on May 4, 2007 at 9:37 PM

FReRydr:

Equating prohibitions on fatty foods and mandating exercise regimens have nothing to do with smoking restrictions. Nice try, but your "nanny state" comparison is faulty.

I've never heard of people contracting second-hand heart disease from sitting in a McDonalds next to people chowing down on Big Macs and Egg McMuffins. I defend your right to eat an unhealthy diet or to not exercise, because the only person at risk through your chosen activity is yourself.

While cigarette smoking has long been proven a health hazard. I'm perfectly happy for those who enjoy this habit to continue to do so  what you do with your body is up to you, after all.

However, my tolerance for your freedom ends when your habit affects my body and my health and that of other people who don't share your affinity for habit, but who have to breathe the same air you do.

As far as me not "having to" patronize a business that allows smoking, why should *I* have to stay at home to avoid other people's noxious habit?

My preference to not smoke causes no one any ill health effects, and I think it's high time that those whose habits *do* have direct, proven harmful effects on others be the ones who have to be inconvenienced by keeping their habits from affecting others who choose to go out in public.

I'm sorry you choose to look at this as creeping Big Brotherism. I view it as societal attitudes finally shifting to understand the dangers of second-hand smoke, and deciding that someone's right to smoke shouldn't force others to have to choose between breathing your smoke and staying at home.

Posted by JRR on May 5, 2007 at 1:48 AM

jrr

The whole point is you do not have to frequent businesses that allow smoking!!! You do not "have to" stay home (wa wa I can't go anywhere because of the mean ol smokers). If there is a demand for non-smoking establishments frequent them or create them! Do not impose your "nanny state" laws on businesses that do not want them and then turn around and not frequent them basicly driving them out of business!!!!!

Your intention seems to be to drive the smokers away from someplace that you might want to go to sometime and don't want to smell their smoke, with no intention to frequent the business after you have destroyed their customer base.

Yours is exactly a "nanny state" mentality that imposes your will on businesses you probably would never go to anyway with laws that destroy income and livelihoods.

BTW.. I was not equating fatty foods and fast foods with your anti-smoking laws, only pointing out that that is your next phase of "nanny state" health laws.

Posted by FReRydr on May 5, 2007 at 9:37 AM

Here is a simple suggestion for the 80% of Champaign residents who do not smoke: take your business to Urbana. Don't let a dictatorial minority keep you from having your night out! Since the 20% of C-U residents who smoke seem to be the only thing keeping Champaign bars and restaurants afloat, they won't miss the 80% who don't smoke if you take your business to Urbana. And Urbana will love you for it!

Bar owners seem to think smokers will go elsewhere if smoking is outlawed. Perhaps nonsmokers should go elsewhere. If they can survive with 20% of the population, more power to them!

Posted by DEB on May 5, 2007 at 11:21 AM

It always amazes me so much how anti-smokers want the government to dictate people's lives, and what legal products business owners are allowed to use/have in their establishments. Not to mention, the earlier comment that likened anti-smoking laws to food safety laws is ridiculous, because you're comparing apples and oranges here. Businesses would always comply with upholding food safety practices, even if there weren't food safety laws, since they realize that if this were the case, they would be sued and taken to court for selling unsafe food to the public. Not to mention, a business' reputation would be completely hurt, if they did such a thing.

As for all you anti-smoking advocates on this board, including JRR and mattvarbl, if you truly believe smoking is that much of a dangerous habit to the user and to others, why should our state government ONLY just stop at banning smoking in almost all enclosed places? If smoking IS SO DANGEROUS, as all you anti-smoking advocates like to harp, why don't you campaign for the complete prohibition of tobacco products? That's the only true and fair way to call for a ban of the use of tobacco in any enclosed public places, IMO. Otherwards, the position both of you posters have is ONLY hypocritical, since after the statewide ban kicks in in 2008, our state and local governments will continue to profit off of the sale of a product that's allegedly as dangerous as both of you claim it is. Not to mention, anti-smoking groups, such as the American Cancer Society, and the American Lung Association, were caught being disingenuous a few years back, when a North Dakota state legislator called for a complete ban on the sale of all tobacco products, and these groups both testified against a North Dakota ban on tobacco sales!

Anyway, to get past that subject, I feel that it wouldn't be a bad idea for Champaign to repeal the smoking ban for 7 months, if they wanted to. Since even if they did, many establishments on their own accord would STILL continue to be smoke-free(and not revert back to allowing smoking at all, period). Such a law would address the concerns of bar owners losing customers, not to mention every place anyway, theoreticaly, would again be smoke-free, as of 2008(nevermind that I disagree with the statewide smoking ban).

One more question, why is it so important for you anti-smoking advocates to force your preference on all bar owners anyway, besides in restaurants and other workplaces? Not to mention, it HAS been proven repeatedly in studies that most people who go to bars, AND who voluntarily choose to work at such establishments, are smokers? If going to smoke-free bars was so important to you nonsmokers all this time, even before the smoking bans in Champaign and Urbana took effect, why didn't you all vote with your pocketbook, and only patronize bars that barred smoking, or had at least some smoke-free nights and/or hours? Not to mention, you could've tried to encourage them to go smokefree. Better yet, why didn't you anti-smokers try to open up a smoke-free bar all this time, or find ones that DID ban smoking before the smoking ban took effect?

Finally, as for FReRydr, I agree with you that smoking ban laws impose a "nanny-state" mentality that only hurts lawful businesses. And as the saying goes, if you give the enemy an inch, they take a mile. That's what occurred, sadly, with the vote to ban smoking statewide this week.

Posted by wtesoxfan3 on May 5, 2007 at 2:39 PM

The myth of second hand smoke being dangerous to non-smokers has been debunked in research conducted by none other than The American Cancer Society. A 39 year study in California on secondhand smoke was started by the cancer society but they stopped the study after the results were not going in their favor. Read the report @...http://kuneman.smokersclub.com/1057.pdf or another report @...http://gasdetection.com/news2/health_news_digest6.html

The whole premis of the "smoke free" ordinance is based on lies for pure political reasons and therefore is truly a "nanny state" endevor!

Posted by FReRydr on May 5, 2007 at 4:19 PM

FReRydr, you wrote that "you don't have to frequent businesses that allow smoking". Why don't the smokers just not frequent places where smoking's prohibited?

You also wrote that "Do not impose your 'nanny state' laws on businesses that do not want them and then turn around and not frequent them basicly driving them out of business!!!!!"

First, why don't we repeal food safety laws? After all, these pesky laws cut into businesses' profits. How dare they! People that don't like rotting meat or mouse feces in their hamburgers can just buy their meat elsewhere. And how dare we tell lawful bar owners that they can't sell booze to sixteen-year-olds so they can't maximize their profits?

As far as the whole argument about driving bars out of business. I've heard a lot of bleating about this, but have yet to see a shred of evidence. The smoking ban in Champaign's been in place a scarce three months, so the long term-effects aren't known, and even if they are, the business owners' rights to income and livelihood aren't absolute.

I don't know what's going on everywhere, but I'm frequenting my favorite bars even more often than before the smoking ordinance, and I seem not to see much lost patronage. Every business is regulated to some extent, and we're not entitled to a profit at the expense of our employees and customers.

You've been responding a lot to what you think I believe and very little of what I've actually written. It may disappoint you to learn that I wasn't one of the anti-smoking advocates who pressed this issue in Urbana and Champaign, but I am certainly appreciative of the change. Also, you are wrong to assume that I support creeping nannyism like outlawing fatty foods or a complete prohibition on tobacco.

I am an advocate of people being free to smoke, drink, or eat anything they damn well please (be it tobacco, marijuana, crack cocaine, alcohol, cheeseburgers, or foie gras). What you do with your body is your own problem, but unless you and your cigarette are isolated from my eyes, throat, lungs, and clothes, your habit becomes my problem, and society's problem.

Your comments about the "myth" of second-hand smoke show the reality distortion behind your arguments, and suggests that I am wasting my time "debating" you here. I've made my point and you've made yours, so it's pointless to take this further.

Posted by JRR on May 5, 2007 at 10:21 PM

jrr

Apparently you have not paid attention to my statements above. For one I have not smoked for the past 23 plus years and I too do not like the smell of smoke.

My whole premis is that there were non-smoking businesses before this ban took effect and more could have been opened and declared to be non-smoking establishments and catered to the non-smoking patrons without imposing "nanny state" laws/ordinances (based on lies) on existing businesses.

You keep trying to bring up food service regulations as a counter to not initiating this smoking ban is ludicris because smoking was legal before the ban and is still legal. What part of serving bad food was ever legal (or wise) if you were trying to run a business and wanted repeat business? Where would the profits be if you didn't have repeat business or the word got out that everyone that ate your food became sick?

If you don't like the (smoking) atmosphere in a business, why would you want to patronize it? There was no ban on opening a non-smoking business, why inpose a nanny state ban on a business that wants to allow smoking for their patrons when you don't "have to" go there if you don't like the atmosphere?

It is pointless to continue this discussion because you can't seem to comprehend when nanny state legislation is not needed.

Posted by FReRydr on May 6, 2007 at 2:32 AM

FReRydr, I did notice in your earlier posts that you've given up smoking. In the interest of full disclosure, I am an occasional cigar smoker. But like you, that hasn't changed my stance on the issue at hand.

I keep bringing up food regulations because I am trying to make the point that, at one time, no laws existed like the Pure Food and Drug Act and the Meat Inspection Act. Serving what we would now call unsafe food certainly was perfectly legal at one time in the past before these acts became law.

Perhaps if you can smell or taste rotten food, you might push your plate away, but when you contract a case of food poisoning many hours after the fact, how do you know what caused it? It's even harder to pinpoint some illness that develops long in the future because of long-term effects on additives that you weren't aware of at the time you chose your meal.

These century-old laws arose because of public pressure on government as a result of public education about the unsafe practices which were then the norm and which were then perfectly legal. (Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" -- even if one dislikes Sinclair's socialism -- was significant in terms of its role in establishment of laws that we now take for granted.)

These laws from the early twentieth century are certainly NOT exact parallels with today's anti-smoking legislation. However, there are some similarities: today's no-public-smoking laws have arisen because of public education about second-hand smoke's long-term effects on both patrons and employees, and the resulting pressure on government. (I recognize that you disagree with the facts regarding second-hand smoke.)

Though you and I disagree on whether the laws are a good thing or not, the News-Gazette editorial acknowledges that the laws sweeping the nation about public smoking are a result of changes in public attitudes toward a habit that was once considered acceptable anywhere and everywhere.

As with a century ago when the food safety laws mentioned above were passed, much of society has asked for a change from what was previously considered legal. Then as now, the people's elected representatives have chosen to do what they believe in the public's interest. I suppose some accused Congress of being a nanny in 1906, but over time, most of us have come to appreciate these laws and others like them.

There's a large body of laws on the books that already regulate when, where, and how I can enjoy a variety of otherwise legal activities. Telling tobacco smokers that they can't light up in a public place isn't that much different.

In my mind -- even though I haven't been among those who lobbied for this change -- I believe public no-smoking laws as a valid and constitutionally-proper role for government intervention. If, however, government were to try to make it illegal to consume tobacco or bacon cheeseburgers, I would probably be on the same side as you in opposition to regulating what people can do with their own bodies in private.

Posted by JRR on May 6, 2007 at 12:18 PM

jrr

Your premis is still based on bogus information as far as secondhand smoke is concerned. Secondhand smoke does not kill people and offers a minimum health risk for most everyone. Those who cannot tolerate it and feel it is a health risk to themselves do not "have to" patronize places that allow smoking!

Bars and restaraunts are private businesses that cater to the public for their patronage. If there is so much demand for non-smoking bars and restaraunts they will cater to the public demands WITHOUT "nanny state" laws/ordinances!

The advertisment running on television now promoting this "Smoke Free Illinois" agenda, states that 'in Illinois 8 people die every day from secondhand smoke'. How about telling me the names of the 8 people that died yesterday? or maybe the information is not up to date yet, how about naming the 8 that died last year on todays date? It is bogus lies because there were not 8 people that died from secondhand smoke in the whole of last year let alone the 2920 (8x365) purported to have passed away from secondhand smoke!

This law and the agenda are based on lies! You still mention the food service laws that do not pertain to this argument. pftttt.

Posted by FReRydr on May 6, 2007 at 3:37 PM

I feel as if I'm talking to a brick wall. You keep arguing that the marketplace should decide; I am repeatedly maintaining that the marketplace is NOT the sole metric by which the effects an activity on the public should be judged.

The marketplace didn't protect farmers from being gouged by the railroad robber barons in the 1870s, nor did it prevent people from unknowingly consuming adulterated food in the 1890s. Likewise, the free market didn't prevent people from losing their life savings through no fault of their own in the Depression bank closings. It didn't prevent unsafe vehicles like the Corvair or Pinto from being sold to unsuspecting consumers, or prevent Enron from bilking its investors more recently.

In the areas cited above (and numerous others), the public benefits from the government stepping in and telling private enterprise what it can and can not do. In many cases the public good was NOT well served by relying entirely on market forces to make the call.

You apparently don't believe regulation is ever appropriate. I believe it is -- to a point (which I have already enumerated). I doubt I can say anything further to help you see my point.

Posted by JRR on May 6, 2007 at 5:02 PM

jrr

just how many of the examples you stated above were justified by lies? Laws based on lies are not good law. Where are the examples of death caused directly from second hand smoke? All these years at 8 deaths per day in Illinois alone, let alone more populated areas such as New York and California.

This law/ordinance is just a "nanny state" law for the "dictatorial minority" that dosn't want smoking around them when they could just as easily not patronize businesses that allow smoking. Where there is not a non-smoking establishment they want to frequent, they can open one catering to the non-smoking crowd. There were no laws forbidding the creation of a smoke-free business. In fact there were businesses that were smoke free. Apparently they would make money hand over fist since there is such a demand for it.

PLEASE keep butting your head against the brick wall you mentioned, it might reduce your "point", in the meantime, please wear a tall hat so we dont have to see your point!

Posted by FReRydr on May 6, 2007 at 8:31 PM

Surely if you have something legitimate to say, you could try to state your case without repeating yourself or resorting to insults.

You can continue to believe that second-hand smoke is perfectly safe if you care to.

And when I hear your complaints about the "dictatorial minority" alongside the N-G's figures that "the number of smokers has fallen to roughly 20 percent of the population", I laugh.

Guess what? The majority has now spoken.

Since smoking in public isn't one of the inviolable rights enshrined in the Constitution, the state's public smoking legislation is a perfectly legal expression of the majority's will. This is democracy in action!

Posted by JRR on May 6, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Great stuff, Rev! Good luck and God Bless you and yours.

Posted by jeffh on May 7, 2007 at 8:50 AM

What about that former committment from Indianapolis who's now going to the state school there, whose name I can't recall?

Is he not supposed to be "1 & Done" or is he now considered not good enough for that?

This isn't supposed to be entirely sarcastic, I am curious why he's not on this list if Rose is.

Posted by jeffh on May 7, 2007 at 9:01 AM

jrr (aka pointhd)

Now that the the city of Champaign has voted in people who campaigned on, and were supported by the constitutents, that wanted this ordinance overturned then you will be happy to see it overturned since they now constitute the MAJORITY of the city counsil!!!

I repeat my same arguments: The ordinance was not needed to create non-smoking businesses, non-smokers did not "have to" patronize smoking establishments, this is a "nanny state" law based on lies.

I have not stated that "secondhand smoke is perfectly safe", it is not the health hazzard that it is purported to be (8 deaths per day in Illinois alone!) by the "smoke-free alliance"! It is no more than an irritant to the majority of people!

LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!! (unless you are an unborn child whose mother finds his/her {not "its"} life INCONVENIENT)

GUESS WHAT the MAJORITY might decide to overturn this ordinance!!

Posted by FReRydr on May 7, 2007 at 10:05 AM

Let's just hope that S.P. becomes a great Big 10

player that w/ a jump shot and a decent free throw

shooter. Forget the NBA this year or even next.

Posted by walker on May 7, 2007 at 12:59 PM

I can see by your latest that you're not interested in debating the issues like an adult, and have regressed into calling names and shouting. Congratulations on proving your intellectual maturity.

Posted by JRR on May 7, 2007 at 5:41 PM

jrr (aka pointhd)

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE: take what marbles you have left (between your ears) and stay home on election day. This great country does not need socio-comm (socialist/communist) influences or politicians such as yours creating "nanny state" laws/ordinances based on lies.

MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA, LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, OUR FINE BRAVE TROOPS AND THEIR FINE COMMANDER IN CHIEF KEEPING US SAFE FROM ISLAMIC HEADCHOPPER MURDERERS AND KEEP US SAFE FROM ISLAMOFASCIEST SYMPATHIZERS SUCH AS HARRY("THEWARISLOST")REID!

Posted by FReRydr on May 8, 2007 at 8:14 AM

sorry to shout (shhhhh) I'm just passionate in my beliefs.

Posted by FReRydr on May 8, 2007 at 8:19 AM

The UI has done a wonderful job of maintaining and making the Allerton mansion and grounds available to the public. Here in the prairie where the remnants of "Big Grove" are privatized we have so few places we can to to enjoy forests and streams, or any other natural areas, the UI flagship campus should be commended (and recognized) for its wonderful efforts and invaluable contribution to our quality of life.

I sometimes criticize the UI, but they have been exemplary citizens in this regard.

Thank you, University of Illinois. You are indeed great citizens of Urbana-Champaign.

Posted by DEB on May 8, 2007 at 12:04 PM

Chicago's loons are way out of line here. Whether or not one likes smoking (or drinking or any other activity), their portrayal in a theatrical production belongs outside government's purview. I'm not a smoker, but this action is needless revisionism and censorship.

Posted by JRR on May 9, 2007 at 12:45 PM

Great stuff guys! Keep it going -- we're all pulling for you.

Posted by jeffh on May 9, 2007 at 1:38 PM

Instead the City of Champaign Mayor and several city council members are focused on the nonsense of partially repealing an ordinance which will be irrelevant in 7 months and has been demonstrated to not harm the local economy. Now that's real nonsense as it is a waste of time and resources and bad public policy and merely illustrates the level of petty retribution sought by those desiring to revisit that issue.

Posted by mattvarbl on May 9, 2007 at 2:04 PM

This example is the next step in the "incrementalism" to ban smoking and the freedom to smoke legal products. If "Smoke Free Illinois" were honest they would just focus on getting tobacco products banned and outlawed altogether from the start.

People that believe in freedom should visit the website of "Smoke Free Illinois" and read some of the statements there. Some of their statements reveal their intentions dramatically. They claim "65,000 Ameicans die from second hand smoke annually" and "one person dies from secondhand smoke for every 8 smokers who die from directly smoking (tobacco products)". If this were true (585,000 American deaths annually), why hasn't the Surgeon General and the Federal Drug Administration along with the Center for Disease Control declared tobacco products a major health poison and banned the production, sale, possesion, and use altogether?

mattvarbl..Why shouldn't the City of Champaign repeal this ordinance since the council members who were voted in campaigned on and won their positions by considerable margins stating outright they would revisit this "nanny state" ordinance? Doncha just love democrecy in action when it works for freedom?

jrr.. you don't seem to be completely truthful, either here or on a previous comment. You are either "an occasional cigar smoker" or "not a smoker" as stated above, I wonder which but don't really care (if you are truthful or not).

The "debate over public smoking" (as stated in the opening line) is not over. If people and businesses work to elect people who will overturn "nanny state" restrictions on freedom they can be overcome wheather on the state level or the local level as in the City of Champaign.

I have read several opinions on this subject and many from those who do not smoke are not in favor of this ban, myself among them (I do not smoke). I don't believe "nanny state" laws/ordinances based on lies (8 deaths from secondhand smoke per day in Illinois) are a good thing.

Non-smokers never "had to" patronize an establishment that allowed smoking.

There has never been a ban on a business that wanted to be non-smoking and cater to a non-smoking public. Now there IS a ban on esstablishments that want to allow smoking and cater to a smoking public.

Re-read the second paragraph in the editors letter above "in this rush to stamp out other peoples' vices" and you will understand how much of a "nanny state" "protect people from their own bad habits" type of legislation this truly is.

"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness" is a GOOD thing to base a country's laws on, not "I don't like your bad habits and don't want to be around them so I will make a law so if I go somplace you can't indulge in my presence".

Posted by FReRydr on May 9, 2007 at 3:53 PM

FReRydr, for all intents and purposes I am a non-smoker -- my "occasional" cigar smoking is in the vicinity of one cigar every month or two. Most people (including my physician) consider me to be non-smoker, but you now know the details for whatever little worth they are to you.

Posted by JRR on May 9, 2007 at 6:03 PM

mattvarbl..Why shouldn't the City of Champaign repeal this ordinance since the council members who were voted in campaigned on and won their positions by considerable margins stating outright they would revisit this "nanny state" ordinance?

Ummm..then why was Councilman Tom Bruno the lead in obtaining votes? Your statement is not accurate as if it were true he wouldn't have been re-elected. I believe there were other factors such as money and general quality of candidates that outweighed the impact of votes cast solely on the smoking ban. Look at the Campaign finance disclosure reports for Foster and Feinen and you'll see allot of money from bars and from the Mayor going into their pocket. That will tell you about their intentions and who they support.

Posted by mattvarbl on May 10, 2007 at 7:57 AM

mattvarbl

So in your opinion, bar owners are not constituants? It is their businesses that are most affacted and they were wise to support candidates that would help them keep fron having to possibly close.

From what I have read (not that all things in print are infallable), Tom Bruno was the least adament about keeping the smoking ban intact, based on the loss of revenue to the businesses.

Posted by FReRydr on May 10, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Let us hope that this Governor is delegated to the status of a "three year lame duck" as stated above. He has squandered the resourses of the people of Illinois by throwing away money on flu shots he tried to have "re-imported", only to have the FDA refuse to allow them into the country and they could not be resold as they were expired by that time, throwing away money for billboard signs to get his name in the public's eye, among many other things such as promising a milllion dollars to rebuild an historic church in Chicago that burned down a few years ago. The church had insurance to cover their losses but Gov. Blogo. thought it would be wise to spend the people's money on it, too.

Let's hope the legislature will work (haha) to put a budget together in a veto proof majority that does not steal any more from the taxpayers of Illinois and CONTROLS/REDUCES SPENDING. A good place to start would be to cut the governor's personal "perks" in half. Ground the governor's plane and travel expenses. If he doesn't want to be in downstate then let him please stay in Chicago. We don't want him down here either with his "punish big business" mentality.

When will the socialist/communists realize that "big business" creates the jobs that drive the economy which makes life better for everyone, and that cutting taxes creates a good business environment that creates more jobs and results in more money in the public coffers?

Posted by FReRydr on May 11, 2007 at 11:14 AM

I don't agree with the characterization that those supporting business taxes are "socialists/communists". But the governor's plan was just plain dumb, and I'm glad it went down to defeat.

I certainly share your distaste for our governor. Governor Blago's a slimeball, crook, and fool. I would not be surprised to see Blago indicted, meaning that we might avoid having to put up with three more years of this clown.

Posted by JRR on May 12, 2007 at 12:46 AM

My comments above were meant to focus on the detremental taxes this governor wants to inpose on businesses as being socialist and not "any and all" taxes on businesses. Businesses have taxes that they pay as a part of "doing business" that are a part of the costs of goods/services. Businesses do not pay "income" taxes (but the governor is spouting "class warfare" in saying they do not pay their "fair share" of income taxes), but businesses employ people that do pay income taxes.

He wants to impose these taxes (GRT) to create a socialist/communistic control agenda of health care and education at the detriment of the business climate in our fine state. These types of taxes will force businesses to move out of state if they can, or have to charge so much for their product/service they will not be competative in the world or national marketplace (or locally) which will help to destroy jobs and therefore tax income as well.

I agree with you, jrr, that this governor is a fool and I was hoping for an indictment before the last election, however he seems to be a teflon fool as all scandal seems to slide away from him.

If he truly wanted to solve the "problems" he has focused on (cost of health care/insurance and education costs) he should cut or remove all taxes on anything related to health care including insurance and health products (such as vitamins and things related to health maintainance) and privatize education (partially or fully) and cut or remove taxes on all educational materials to make it competative (as in free market) with standardized guidelines as requirements and get "government bureauocracy" (not as in "by the people/for the people") out of the monopoly that is the "education system" it is now, that answers to the teachers' unions.

Follow the money, the more controlling bureauocracy there is the more chance there is to skim some money from the system or to appoint someone to a position who will be grateful enough to give a "sizeable donation" to a campaign fund or the daughter's birthday "fund".

Posted by FReRydr on May 12, 2007 at 1:02 PM

And of course the News-Cigarette omits its usual candor regarding the unnecessary waste of government resources, confusion, time, and tax dollars that will result from the partial repeal of the smoking ban as the CUPHD will incur the brunt of these changes. Again there is no substantial data out there that supports this move other than a few anectdotal stories of a few places that couldn't capture the customer base that is already there. Why doesn't the paper tell the truth and point to the bar's monetary contributions to Foster & Feinen and display their votes are bought and paid for by these businesses instead of in support of public health?

March sales tax receipts also showed us that business as a whole didn't "decline" and the consumer behavior isn't generally linked to the ordinance as much as the weather. The News-Gazette also seems to shy away from their "let the market decide" arguments and instead holds up these anectdotal stories of a few allegedly suffering bars as some justification for the partial repeal.

Posted by mattvarbl on May 14, 2007 at 8:10 AM

Again, mattvarbl seems to have his head where the sun doesn't shine. Candidates for political office take donations from their supporters and constitutents for the costs of their campaign. According to him, all politicians are "bought and paid for" and therefore the politicians that ran opposed to Foster & Feinen were also "bought and paid for" by the "smoke free alliance" but that was truly the "waste of money" because they lost!

The repeal, partial or otherwise will truly be democracy in action because the council members that were elected ran their campaign on the basis of revisiting the smoking ban, and won. The politicians who were "bought and paid for " by the "smoke free alliance" were defeated running on the fact that they would retain the smoking ban!

Again I say that people who cannot tolerate smoke do not "have to" patronize establishments that allow smoking, there never was an ordinance banning the operation of a smoke free establishment before the smoking ban so anyone could operate just such an establishment and cater to the non-smokers. It should be up to the business owner if s/he/they want to cater their business to smokers and/or non-smokers.

Posted by FReRydr on May 14, 2007 at 10:40 AM

Don't forget Eddie Johnson's career in the NBA

Posted by rdoyle on May 14, 2007 at 9:02 PM

The greatest incoming class in Illinois history?

Dee Brown, James Augustine and Deron Williams might have somethign to say about that (not to mention Kendall Gill, Steve Bardo and Nick Anderson).

Illinois fans will delude themselves in to thinking anything to support Bruce Weber.

Posted by ralexander on May 16, 2007 at 2:23 PM

The combined statistics do not show much at all. Many new business have opened and closed since 2006. Bar owners should openly post their receipts statistics, since Urbana's City Council does not want you to see that. Statistics can be misleading. Champaign's repeal will be interesting, it will show what types of bars can survive a ban, and which will not. It is all about the clientel you attract. Since we are into deeper segregation these days, it is better to have separate bars. Or like LA, where bars are now 4 walls and a retractable roof.

Posted by bpercival on May 17, 2007 at 8:51 AM

Lets not forget the excessive taxes imposed on oil products. The oil companies produce these products for a profit; it is their chosen business to expend the resourses to drill for oil, refine and transport the products that are then consumed by the customers with an average "profit" of about 8% (that is 8 cents on each dollar), however each an every tax dollar is "pure profit" to the governmental bodies that impose these taxes as they do not "expend" anything, except to create a tax bill on the products.

Perhaps the collective governments should give the taxpayers a little relief on the costs of gasoline at the pump.

The Lib socio/comms (socialist/communists) should be extremely happy with the fuel prices so high. They will not allow new drilling for oil in reserves in our own country or offshore so we could become more energy independant, and they won't allow new refineries to be built to increase our capacity to refine the crude oil in order to relieve our existing ageing refineries. Sooner or later the costs of fuel and oil products will be too high for a segment of our society that they will not be buying/using these produucts and will be forced to conserve. At the same time it will become more profitable for alternative energy sourses to become established. Not in all a bad thing, but a painfull period to go through if we're used to relativly cheap fuel costs.

Don't forget too, that all goods and/or services are influenced by fuel costs because of transportation and so all goods/services will increase in cost as the fuel costs rise.

Posted by FReRydr on May 17, 2007 at 2:32 PM

I think Michigan must be the #1 seed.

Tom Smith

Posted by jorge on May 21, 2007 at 1:23 PM

I am not a faithful follower of tennis in any form, but I know enough that I could not be more proud of our Fighting Illini Tennis Team! Congratulations on reaching this point in the season. And, while you're at it, you might just as well win another national championship. Great Job!!!

Posted by waddeji on May 21, 2007 at 1:31 PM

Congratualations to Brad Dancer! He's stepped right in and kept the program in the upper echelons of the sport.

Posted by aratnakar on May 21, 2007 at 1:43 PM

COngratulations to the Illini Tennis Team. We are so proud of you!

Posted by apagelee on May 21, 2007 at 2:26 PM

I realize that the Postal Service's costs for transporting the mail (fuel costs) has increased as it has for everyone, however, I would like to see them increase the cost to the junk mail/bulk rate mailing rates before the increase in first class postage. The junk mail/bulk rate is a lot of volume in the carriers' mailpouch and constitutes a lot of the expense of delivery.

It may be true that an increase in bulk rate postage will result in less volume in bulk mailings, and less volume/income for the postal service, however wouldn't that result in less costs to the postal service too?

Posted by FReRydr on May 21, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Junk mail is said to contribute significantly to the Postal Service's bottom line, so I doubt they'll be eager to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

But all that junk mail that winds up making a direct trip from the mailbox to trash can sure amounts to a lot of wasted paper and wasted effort!

One of my other "postal peeves" is all the mail with the words "URGENT" or "TIME SENSITIVE" on the envelope -- and which turns out to be nothing more than junk. I wouldn't mind seeing that get restricted, but like higher rates on junk mail, it's not likely to happen either.

Posted by JRR on May 21, 2007 at 4:54 PM

With the recent news that postal rates on the rise, I'm sure people will find something to complain about (as many do). I want to add my two cents to simply say I think the USPS does a good job. I don't send a lot of packages or mail, but I always use USPS vs. UPS, FedEx, etc. I've always found their rates to be very reasonable, to have on-time delivery, and most of their employees to be helpful/courteous. In a world where people are so negative about everything, I wanted to send out some positive energy and appreciation to the hard-working folks at USPS. And no.... I don't work there.

Posted by kwknott on May 22, 2007 at 8:31 AM

The really good one is the one on immigration.

Not only do we let 11-20 million illegal aliens get amnesty (I read the bill on the web, it is amnesty), we get to pay for legal costs to defend there rights to citizenship, training for them to learn English, and a multitude of other pet projects for the special interests groups.

Durbin even lost my vote on this one, and Obama is pushing really close.

Posted by wmb on May 22, 2007 at 5:27 PM

Unfortunately, another law would probably not solve the problem of inattentative driving, whether the driver is distracted by a cell phone, changing a CD or radio station, lighting or dropping a cigarette or taking a drink of soda or coffee. It would only be another infraction for the police to write a citation for and if not covered by the whole state, would not have affected the driver that hit Mr. Wilhelm, as he was outside city limits when he was hit.

As stated above, the only proper solution would be to educate drivers about the hazards of distracted driving, to concentrate on the road, including all possible hazards, other cars, bicyclists, motorcyclists, trucks, animals that might wander into the path of the vehicle (dogs, cats, deer, or cows/horses that might have gotten loose).

Unfortunately, even with a good education curriculum in drivers ED, or wherever taught, a majority of drivers will not heed warnings until tragedy strikes close to them.

Posted by FReRydr on May 23, 2007 at 6:22 PM

Unfortunately, this governor does not understand fiscal responsibility. He spends the people's money like a drunken sailor, but a drunken sailor tends to spend his own money, and this governor wouldn't spend his own money if his life depended on it, drunk or sober.

The legislature needs to cut off irresponsible spending and stealing from pensions and budget like they should and be responsible about trimming spending to what we, as a state, can afford. But that would be a fantasy dream (If you're going to dream, dream big).

Posted by FReRydr on May 23, 2007 at 6:49 PM

shoulder should take three months..--to feel right;but losing that time from lifting will really HURT

Posted by lflodin on May 24, 2007 at 12:56 AM

The state is essentially trying to turn its public colleges and universities into private ones. I know of faculty in several states who are deliberating whether or not they can become privates since their state legislatures, like ours, have cut the state aid so greatly. At UI, the state provides only about 20% of the cost to run the place. The rest comes from tuition, faculty research grants, donations, and merchandising. Whenever I am tempted to criticize UI professors for spending too much time doing research, I try to remind myself that it is the overhead on their grants that help pay the way for my kids. (On average, half of what a professor receives in a research grant is taken by the university for overhead costs. We should all thank them for being so productive and scholarly, for this helps us afford to send our kids there.)

Second, the 9.5% increase is really rather modest. It amounts to an average increase of only 2.37%. Unfortunately, instead of across all students, it applies only to freshmen who, as you note, will not see another increase unless they fail to graduate in four years. The market mechanism behind this is exactly the same as rent controls and other violations of the free market: it pushes big increases on the small segment of the population whose prices are not controlled (freshmen, new renters, etc.) but protects those already in the system.

A more free market system (ironically, opposed by the Republicans in our legislature) would distribute the pain more evenly across all four years. But the immediate and popular appeal of the "tuition guarantee" proved irresistible. But the long term consequence may be to price the state schools out of reach, with each year's freshman class seeing a big increase over the last.

The UI in particular is already more expensive than many excellent private schools. At UI, almost everyone pays the list price. At every private school we looked at for our kids, they told us that almost nobody pays list price. At many schools-- Yale, Washington U, Chicago, Harvard, Stanford-- the effective cost after merit and need based aid made the cost of those schools equal to or less expensive than the UI. And it is not just us. Almost everybody I have talked with has had the same experience: in the end, after aid came into play, private schools were cheaper or the same as the UI.

Thus, Joe White is right. The UI needs to find more money on its own, just as if it were a private school. If it fails in that, it will fail to compete with the elite privates because it will lose its excellent faculty at the same time it prices itself out of reach.

Posted by DEB on May 24, 2007 at 2:47 PM

What sick sort of logic criticizes the government--an institution whose role is to provide services for the people--when fuel prices soar? The real profiteers in this situation are the owners of the oil industry, whose profit margins are higher than any other industry aside from banking. You talk about out of touch in the same breath that you criticize the state government for not taking an action that will do nothing more than enable the rampant greed and corruption of the oil industry. Give me a break.

Posted by javajunkee on May 25, 2007 at 11:37 AM

Perhaps as a symbol of his turn around Jamar should change his number to 13, regardless of its negative connotations, and start with a clean slate. Whatever it takes to help this young man be successful in life and for the Illini.

brillini

Posted by brhinehart on May 25, 2007 at 10:51 PM

Oil companys explore for oil, drill to extract the oil from the ground or from under the sea/ocean, transport the crude oil to the refineries where they process it to fuel, gasoline, motor lubricants, greases, etc., then transport the refined product to the market places for a whopping 8% profit (8 cents per dollar).

Government taxes are 100% profit as they do not produce anything of this product, however with the tax revenue they cover costs of inspections/standards of the products, and fuel taxes for transportation are used to build/maintain roads/bridges,etc.

Imagine if the oil companies decided to take all of their "profits", shut down their operations and moved to "the islands" somewhere and quit producing their product? Where would we be then?

Imagine if the "Environmental wacko's" and their Democrat enablers would allow the evil oil companies to explore and drill for oil in known reserves, in our own country and offshore, build new refineries to relieve the old ones so they could increase the domestic supply and so we could be more self sufficient. With more pruduct on the market, prices would stabilize and perhaps decline some. (If you're going to dream, dream big)

Posted by FReRydr on May 26, 2007 at 12:03 AM

javajunkie must not understand that there is more "rampant greed and corruption" in the (Illinois) governor's office than there is in most businesses, including oil companies. Most businesses want to provide a product or service and get a reasonable return on their investment but they have to compete with other companies producing the same or similar products so there is only so much profit they can make.

With all the excessive "profits" going into the coffers from the state sales taxes on high fuel costs, gov "Blogo" still wants to steal more in the form of a Gross Receipts Tax. That (fool) is truly corrupt.

Posted by FReRydr on May 26, 2007 at 12:30 AM

It is never "entertaining" when these fools are trying to work on a "budget" because they invariably will overstay their spring session and therefore cost the taxpayers money in "overtime".

They should be working on their own dime instead of making the taxpayers pay for their wasted efforts if they go into post session. They should have been working on the budget the past two months to get it done before the end of the session. They are grown people, why is it that they don't do their work in a timely fashon? They know when the end of the session is. I often think they do this (overtime) to increase their earnings, something of a "bonus" for their pocketbooks for the summer "vacation". Somewhat unethical if that is the case.

Posted by FReRydr on May 26, 2007 at 12:49 AM

Both Coaches Weber and Zook are class acts. Illinois is fortunate to have them heading our two major sports programs. Coach Zook is a tireless worker and deserves to have good things happen to the football program in 2007/08. We definitely need some wins this fall to bolster our football program.

Posted by Lanse on May 27, 2007 at 9:59 AM

Yeah, I love these Meet N Greets. The one in Rockford last week was unreal.

Oh wait, sorry. My bad. I forgot, the crew could not find the time to come to Rockford.

3rd largest city in the state. Metropolitan area of 370,000 residents.

Man, we should just be lucky that we can get the football and basketball games on the radio up here.

In a way, we are kind of spoiled up here. After all, it was only 10 years ago that the head coach of Illini football (translated: Ron Turner prior to his first season) graced us Rockfordians with his presence.

Posted by mbeesley on May 27, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Good luck and God Speed Brad. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

Posted by jeffh on May 29, 2007 at 10:25 AM

As much as I want to agree, wasn't McBride involved in the campus break-in with Luther Head? He got a second chance and ended up with a DUI, and Weber gave him a third chance. I'm very much in favor of second chances, but maybe if Weber had taken a much harder stance with McBride the incident with Jamar wouldn't have happened because the team would've taken Rich's DUI more seriously.

Posted by jimsojoodi on May 31, 2007 at 1:46 PM

Illinois politicians certainly have alot of answering to do.

Why home loans for illegal immigrants with better interest rates and higher caps then for citizens.

Why in-state tuition for illegal immigrants? When Illinois citizens cannot afford college?

Why no checking citizenship for voter registration?

Why is Chicago a Sanctuary city?

The government of this State needs to start acting like a responsible member of Society.

Posted by wmb on June 1, 2007 at 12:16 AM

At a time when, supposedly, our state is "strapped for cash", that we are "economicly challanged" again the legislature is going into "overtime" that will cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars over and above budgeted expenses for per diam overtime pay.

Although it has not been widely reported, they have sent to the governor a $1.5 million bill to increase legislators compensation (pay raise) which includes an increase to the governors budget

Gee, I wonder if Blogo will sign it, do you think he would be "fiscally responsible" and veto it? hahahahahahaha!!!!!

Posted by FReRydr on June 3, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Perhaps these second chances have been a success on the individual level, but perhaps if Weber had come down hard on one of these players, we wouldn't have continued to see later problems off the court.

Posted by ralexander on June 3, 2007 at 2:16 PM

perhaps its too easy for most of us to overcome

the the family we bring to the table later in life.Jammar certainly made a huge mistake,and he is paying a price that will stay with him the

rest of his life. Most importantly, however, is

what he will do learn and how will he behave in

the future.Ibelieve that the faith and support that Weber gives his athletes workes and sends the right message to future recruits.Come toIllinois and we will grow together,and win.

Posted by rdurkin on June 7, 2007 at 3:52 PM

perhaps its too easy for most of us to overcome

the the family we bring to the table later in life.Jammar certainly made a huge mistake,and he is paying a price that will stay with him the

rest of his life. Most importantly, however, is

what he will do learn and how will he behave in

the future.Ibelieve that the faith and support that Weber gives his athletes workes and sends the right message to future recruits.Come toIllinois and we will grow together,and win.

Posted by rdurkin on June 7, 2007 at 3:53 PM

I believe her name was Cathy Rush not Ruth.

Posted by lewicki on June 11, 2007 at 11:36 PM

Great work, Paul. Always one of the week's most interesting columns.

Posted by NateFromBtown on June 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

um, Dunigan goes to Farragut

Posted by optimator on June 13, 2007 at 3:40 PM

Liggins, who is out with a stress fracture, is the on e that goes to Washington.

Posted by jeohaver on June 14, 2007 at 10:19 AM

Thank you for pointing that out. I regret the mix up.

A few coaches with some of the better players told me today their teams will be at the Moody camp: Oak Park-River Forest, Farragut, St. Joseph's and Simeon.

Thanks again.

-pk

Posted by pklee on June 14, 2007 at 12:41 PM

What is a "rising" junior, senior, whatever?

Posted by rmeadows on June 14, 2007 at 2:37 PM

rmeadows - "rising" simply means "going to be". So if a kid just finished his sophomore year of HS, he's a rising junior.

Posted by NateFromBtown on June 14, 2007 at 10:33 PM

rmeadows - "rising" simply means "going to be". So if a kid just finished his sophomore year of HS, he's a rising junior.

Posted by NateFromBtown on June 14, 2007 at 10:34 PM

Iman, we'd love to have you in Orange and Blue -- you'll never feel as much love anywhere else!

Posted by jeffh on June 16, 2007 at 2:37 PM

Great coverage, Paul. Some great questions asked and some answers that tell why this is such a unique kid that we're recruiting. Whatever happens with Shumpert, I will always root for him. Of course, that will be much easier if he comes to Illinois and represents his state!!

Thanks as always and great work, Paul-

Posted by NateFromBtown on June 17, 2007 at 7:37 AM

"Located on a field-level brick wall  100 feet from the playing surface which has bared its name for the past 41 years"

From one "JeffH" to another, Jeff, I really enjoyed your article and not to be persnickety, but I think you might've meant to say "the playing surface which has BORNE its name..." instead of "bared."

I know we both are glad to see the Memorial returned to a place of prominence -- I've been away from the area for some time, and when I was last in the Stadium it couldn't be missed, which is how it should be.

Posted by jeffh on June 18, 2007 at 9:56 AM

hopefully SP can have a good enough senior season to be a draft candidate

this time next year. If he can discover

a jump shot it would be a good start.

Posted by walker on June 18, 2007 at 12:10 PM

And Chicago continues to be a sanctuary city for illegal aliens.

Cook County has voted to be the first sanctuary county in the Nation.

The Legislature passed a bill prohibiting the use of the DHS Basic Pilot by business to avoid hiring illegal aliens.

The State refuses to have laws which assure that a person is a citizen to vote or register to vote while having one of the highest illegal alien populations in the state.

Sorry, I do not think we have a chance of changing our politicians at either the state or federal level in this state. Our vote doesn't count.

Posted by wmb on June 18, 2007 at 12:49 PM

Pruitt has shown a lot character and grit to do what he has just done in the NBA tryouts to get better! It will give him more leadership and confidence as he leads the Illinois team that has some some talent. Now bring back Williams and Dee as a recruiting team...and throw in Hester too. Let's get it going...Weber is a deserving coach!!!

Posted by dallen on June 18, 2007 at 6:31 PM

It has been two days since Jeff Allen, from Chicago King, made an oral pledge to the Illini...still nothing reported?????

Posted by jjrepp on June 19, 2007 at 7:52 PM

Good luck -- I'm sure you know you're following some illustrious predecessors, not just Jim Sheppard but Tom Trent also.

I suspect that, like many, I'm not sure why Jim Sheppard wasn't retained, but all the luck in the world to you.

Posted by jeffh on June 20, 2007 at 11:57 AM

I am very pleased to hear what a great kid Jeff Jordan is and that he wanted to be an Illini. It must be difficult for him to always be in the shadow of his father, but it appears as if the Jordan family is helping Jeff to be his own person and player. I know Coach Weber will handle it appropriately.

Posted by Lanse on June 20, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Sorry that Jeremy Piven was too enlightened for the apparent Red State crowd at Midnight Madness. Good Lord, heaven forbid we criticize the administration that got us in this quaqmire that has cost us trillions of dollars (which could have been spent on domestic and social problems at home - remember Katrina? Well, New Orleans still hasn't been fixed).

Posted by ralexander on June 21, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Recall that DeWitt County Judge Peters is the one who also sentenced Amanda Hamm to 10 years in prison out of a possible 20 year sentence.

Posted by mattvarbl on June 21, 2007 at 12:52 PM

Hey, I hope somebody at the News Gazette has noticed that the link to the article "Freshman Put on Show" doew not work.

Posted by sclark on June 24, 2007 at 12:43 PM

hmmm, they appear to be asleep at the switch, sclark.

Posted by lroller on June 24, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Paul - really nice article. I've enjoyed reading your take on things over the last week or so. Keep up the good work.

Posted by jbeyer88 on June 25, 2007 at 10:58 AM

I was a cop for seven years and a police reporter in television and radio for twenty-five. I understand the arguments on both sides of this piece. But putting lives at risk for the sake of a questionable story is unprofessional and unacceptable. It's cheap "momentary glory" journalism. I underwent training as a hostage negotiator and have taken part in dozens of hostage negotiation drills. As a reporter, I've observed negotiators at work trying to save lives in incredibly dangerous yet very delicate situations. Any knucklehead "journalist" who thinks it's okay to dial up an armed hostage taker for a quick chat needs to spend less time watching TV cop shows and more learning the risks associated with real law enforcement. Here's a tip: look up the term "suicide audience" and then consider how you would have felt if the hostage-taker pulled the trigger on an innocent victim, or even on himself, while you were on the phone.

Posted by fellagio on June 26, 2007 at 11:20 AM

Could there be a better example of what's right with the college game than Dee?

I certainly never heard anyone say better what Illinois stands for as far as integrity and what the program offers away from the court.

Just a delightful piece to read.

Posted by jeffh on June 29, 2007 at 12:29 PM

I have recently had lots of exposure to SEC schools' recruiting of basketball players. Let's just say that Dee is being polite; I don't think some of these schools care a bean about the ultimate well-being of the young men they recruit. I like that word, "integrity." Thanks, Dee.

Posted by jjohnson on June 29, 2007 at 12:53 PM

"The suspension should have been disclosed"

Um, personnel actions are confidential and as a matter of policy most organizations are not permitted to disclose such information as there are many legal consequences to doing so. The candidate could have been more forthcoming knowing there was a newspaper story already out there, however what has happened elsewhere in a different organization and a different culture should not be very relevant to another company as if that were the case then some people who have been fired for very unfair or specific reasons related to their old organization would never be able to move on and be eternally punished and have a stigma attached for something that was most likely specific to their past employer. Just because you weren't a good fit "here" doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't succeed elsewhere either.

Companies already can use pre-employment criminal background and credit checks, physicals, and pre-employment drug screens to eliminate candidates with potentially serious records or issues, however beyond that the candidate should be judged exclusively on their knowledge skills and abilities in addition to if there is chemistry between the new organization and the candidate.

Posted by mattvarbl on June 29, 2007 at 1:15 PM

You can spin it any way you want, but the bottom line is that we're not getting the best kids in our own back yard. That's why we were 23-12 last year and played like donkeys down the stretch against Va Tech. If you don't recruit some of the best players, you're not going to win, no matter how much integrity you have.

Posted by vreato on June 29, 2007 at 2:17 PM

The bottom line with people like Dee Brown is integrity and giving it all you've got. The bottom line with other people like vreato is pretty clear from the comments expressed, isn't it? Enough said!

Posted by jeohaver on June 29, 2007 at 2:44 PM

I generally agree with the article and posted comments about personnel issues, but there are exceptions.

For some reason we think that a person that has served as a teacher, principle, or as in this case a assistant to the superintendent have higher qualities of honesty and ethics, nothing can be further from the truth. I know I work

for a school district and have school age children. There should be a higher standard for these positions, for they are

not like most employment positions. They are mandated to be authorities over minors legislated as safe caretakers

at the time that the minors are in their care, hence the DCFS mandatory reporter act, Drug safe school policies etc.

Culture and what happened is very relevant in a school setting as also in things like state or municipal nursing homes

and to a lesser extent hospitals. If the knowledge of Jon Whites employment status and criminal background was more

closely scrutinized and the district were he came from was more forth coming in saying why he would never work in that

area again we might not have such a tragic and more devastating problem in that district. And I do think

that is much more tragic and devastating then one losing a job and trying to find employment. I am certainly not putting

Ms Donis in those same quarters as the Jon White incident, but trust is trust; in these issues they should not be so worried

about law suits form personnel, but as from law suites of safety and protection over the charges they have and the failure there of, also to the community the serve. I dont recall how many times I was told we are here for the administration, odd, I thought we are here for the kids or community. I do believe there is a difference in employment

positions especially when over charges. These employment positions are different and should be treated that way.

Posted by kc2157 on June 29, 2007 at 4:33 PM

Wreato, You have no clue. Except when you post, we just move on knowing you don't have any understanding of what our team went through last year nor how that impacts the future.

Posted by bbabcock on June 29, 2007 at 8:51 PM

For those intent on a "civilian police review board" to effectively "review" police intervention of criminal activity, why do they not want to have a "civilian criminal/crime review board" to "review" the crimes and criminal activity in the neighborhoods they might be aware of to help the police forces to identify crime activity in areas police might not be aware of? In other words, more neighborhood watch groups working WITH police to help aleviate suspicions and cut off crime before it gets to the point of violence with criminals causing the types of "shootouts" that have recently occured.

The police officers in our area most generally are highly trained before being hired to a police department. At that time they are considered "rookies" who then have supervised "on the job" training by veteran police officers to get aquainted with neighborhoods and general practices and procedures. To establish a "civilian police review board" seems to invite organized criticism, animosity, and second guessing (armchair criticizing) of procedures that sometimes have to be decided on instantanous life-threatening circumstances.

Next time you see a police officer, wave to him/her in a friendly manner, and if possible thank them for the difficult, dangerous, and sometimes thankless job they have chosen to do. They are human individuals too that appreciate appreciation for the dificulties of their jobs.

Posted by FReRydr on July 1, 2007 at 12:25 PM

Thanks for the article Paul. Dee is a fantastic guy. It is nice to see the media pay attention to some of the good things that athletes do, not just the bad antics of a few rotten apples. Dee is earning a kind of riches that can't be measured like dollars from the NBA.

Posted by denobbe on July 1, 2007 at 12:35 PM

Great job Paul. What a fantastic example Dee is, and just a great representative of the Illini basketball program.

Posted by jeffh on July 2, 2007 at 9:06 AM

I have DirecTV & live in Illinois, so am not anticipating any problems watching UI games. However, what about all the Big 10 alums who live outside the "footprint"? They used to watch their favorite team(s) via other satellite or cable providers, but might not be able to now. How does the Big 10 Network plan to accomodate those folks?

Posted by cjcohen on July 3, 2007 at 1:24 PM

Dish Network needs to get in on the deal. They have almost as many subscribers as does DirecTV, in fact, their sports package is cheaper, but does not cover the CBS exclusives of DirecTV.

Posted by Lanse on July 3, 2007 at 10:57 PM

What makes anyone think that our legislators and government would act any better under a new state constitution than they do under the existing one? Does anyone seriously believe a change in the constitution will create an overnight conversion of today's slimy politicians (of both parties) into true statesmen? The crooks that infest our state government will find loopholes and find ways to ignore the new constitution just like they do the state constitution now in force.

With rare exception, the sort of people who crave public office are the people who I am least willing to trust with a position of leadership. We need fewer lawyer/politician types in government and more plain folk who focus on serving their fellow Illinoisans instead of using public service as a means to obtain power, wealth, and privilege.

I am not optimistic that this will happen, but attracting people with the "right stuff" to state government is more of a challenge than rewriting the state constitution. Yet, it strikes me as more worthy a goal than changing the rules of the game but leaving the same crooked players running the show.

Posted by JRR on July 4, 2007 at 12:05 PM

Ossammaobamma will have a hard time prying the nomination away from Shrillary no matter how much money he raises, because donchaknow, the Shrillary deserves the nomination because of all the excrement she has had to deal with from her philandering hubby, in public no less. The Shrillary has yet let loose her political hit forces, and you can bet she is gathering profiles on all leading contenders, ESPECIALLY Ossamma! Don't be too surprised if Mr. Ossammaobamma meets the same outcome as Vince Foster, before she would let an underling have her nomination.

Whichever one of these socio/comms gets the nomination, all serious and sober Americans must work to see that the Socialist/Communistic wing of the DemocRAT party is defeated.

Posted by FReRydr on July 5, 2007 at 11:05 AM

Your first paragraph is a lie designed to inflame the "partisan devide" further. President Bush has "reached across the isle" many times only to be insulted/repremanded for not caving to all demoncRATS demands. Several times he has enlisted the "help" of Ted Kennedy because he is such a LIBERAL/SOCIALIST icon, "No-child-left-behind" and most recently the "Shamnisty" debacle. (Thank GOD the Shamnisty bill fell through, as with most "Ted Kennedy bills" it was upwards of 900 pages long, misunderstandable by Senators who were unable to read it, let alone understand it, before the authors tried to shove it through the Senate without debate.)

As per your last paragraph, the demoncRATS in this state government will not even allow the representatives on "the other side of the isle" to have any say in any "negotiations" of any bills and especially the budget for (ALL) the state and of interest to ALL Illinoisians, not JUST those "Chicago Politicians" who are running (DOWN) this fine state.

In case you have not noticed, Blogo (our "esteemed" governor) is not about to "negotiate" about the 2008 budget, it's his way or none other, PERIOD. "His Arogance" is only concerned about his own "opinion" and all others be da*ned!! That is no way to run a state government no matter where you stand on the issues! Its high time he was indicted or recalled, our Lt-Governor would make a much better, more honest leader than the sorry excuse of cr*p now in office!!

As per the remainder of your "puff-piece" EDITORIAL statements, they can be taken with about a half pound of salt (to be palatable), as you push the "socio/comm" Barrack HUSSAIN Osammaobamma who is more "tailor" (aka- EMPTY gooood-lookin' SUIT) than substance.

Posted by FReRydr on July 6, 2007 at 10:53 AM

HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE A LIAR?? This Governor has lied ("gone BACK on his WORD") to representatives on both "sides of the isle" time and again, and again, (etc. ad-infiniteum) since (before) becoming the "leader" of this state!! This governor's "WORD" is just SHY of being TOTALLY WORTHLESS!!

SUPPOSEDLY, our fine state is beyond being fiscally solvent but our fine legislators have again given themselves and the governor a raise while NOT fulfilling the requirenments of their jobs by NOT resolving a budget before "end of session". How many taxpaying citizens get to "vote" themselves a pay raise and then NOT do their required responsibilites?? AND NOT BE REMOVED FROM THEIR POSITION!!?? AND NOW THE GOVERNOR CALLS INTO "SPECIAL SESSION" PAYING REQUIRED OVERTIME, $42,000 TAXPAYER DOLLARS EACH AND EVERY DAY, FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER 6 WEEKS AGO!!! ALL GOVERNMENT RAISES SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE ON A GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT BEFORE GOING INTO EFFECT!!! THE WORST PART OF THIS DEBACLE IS THE FACT THAT BLOGO WILL NOT "NEGOTIATE" BECAUSE "HIS ARROGANCE" WILL NOT CONCEDE TO ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION/IDEAS AND HE IS WASTING THE TIME AND TAXPAYER MONEY IN HIS OWN PERSONAL "SHOWDOWN" TO SATISIFY HIS OWN MISGUIDED OVERINFLATED EGO!!!

Please excuse/forgive my "yelling" as this is a verrrry sore subject with me, and I am passionate in my opinions/convictions.

Posted by FReRydr on July 6, 2007 at 11:45 AM

If the recent immigration bill is an indication of what we get when the two parties work together, I think we are better of with them not working together myself. What Americans do want is not bipartisan or partisan, we want politicians that look out for this country and its citizens best interests. We do not care what party, what race, what religion, or anything else as much as we care about that.

One thing I have noticed about both the big democrat contenders this time is they bring up dividing issues alot. Be it race, sex, or anything else. They accuse others of it, but they are the ones that bring it up. That isn't what this country needs, they are just going to divide the country further and use that division for their own purposes.

Posted by wmb on July 6, 2007 at 10:06 PM

Dear PAUL.

I don't want you to get a big head here..... but, I wish that this article would be published in every sports section in the country....!!!!

Every day we read about another gang bang, gangsta wannabe, gun toting, alcohol induced, performanced enhanced nonsense in the paper or on the news....that you just want to quit watching sports for the rest of your life.

Then you see or read something like what Dee Brown does and you get the feeling that there are good things in this world in general and in sports---specifically. HURRAH TO DEE.!!!!!!!! This world needs more of this stuff.....

Great job Paul. Great job DEE.. !!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on July 7, 2007 at 12:35 AM

I hate to say bad things about a High Schooler, but, I also hate to see someone that the Illini wanted badly, go to another team..... and especially when that team is MICHIGAN. I wish John nothing but the very best.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on July 8, 2007 at 1:09 AM

I think we are going to be the ones who enjoy the relationship between Jordan and Mccarney in the years to come. Mccarney didn't get all the pub that the Eric Gordon's of the world got...but you watch. Mccarney will stand up tall in that matchup......

Posted by guitaraxe1 on July 8, 2007 at 2:02 AM

I thought it was a bit far-fetched for SP to enter the draft. He definitely would not have been drafted. If he could do just ONE thing to his game.... it would be GET IN SHAPE. Did you notice last year how he just wasn't getting up and down the court at times? Then you watch a guy like Greg Oden flying up and down the court---there was absolutely no comparison. late in the year SP looked like he had little left in the tank. Oden, on the other hand went ballistic in the Big Ten Tourney--especially against Purdue, and carried that through the entire NCAA tournament. SP would have one good game, and then a little bit of a let down. As a fan, it gets maddening when you see a kid who has the skills but seems out of shape. Maybe SP learned a thing or two about the next level from his experience and will be ready when this fall comes around. GO ILLINI!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on July 8, 2007 at 2:42 AM

MY LORD IN HEAVEN.!!!! I just read this on 7/09/07 and I couldn't believe my eyes. A college recruit---- a big time recruit---actually saying the words...that he isn't impressed with the "LORDS OF RECRUITING"---- the KANSAS, THE NORTH CAROLINA's. I just hope that Iman Shumpert lives to these words.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on July 8, 2007 at 3:06 AM

If we could only find 100 more Dee Browns. Pretty easy to see why this guy is so special.

Posted by jmeans on July 8, 2007 at 9:03 AM

Yeah, why would you want to watch the two best teams in the league when you can watch a less-than mediocre Cardinals team. I think Insight is doing fans a favor

Posted by dnaour on July 8, 2007 at 9:28 AM

I am sure Bonds care what a small time writer has to say about him!!! You the media are pathetic about Bonds, what were you saying about McGwire and Sosa in 1998. You media guys just hate Bonds because he want kiss your guys arse!!!

Posted by mwinfrey on July 8, 2007 at 9:52 AM

You need to add Glenn Collier (Danville Schlarman) 1970-72? to your small school football player list

Posted by dledwon on July 8, 2007 at 5:11 PM

You forgot Wylie Fox, in the mid 60's, graduated from Palestine High School, current enrollment 100.

Posted by jjrepp on July 8, 2007 at 5:31 PM

What about Doug Harford from Piper City?

Posted by dswengel on July 8, 2007 at 6:44 PM

Wouldn't it be nice to see the Illini battle with Purdue & Iowa for 5th place in the Big Ten this year. As I recall, the #5 team goes to the Alamo Bowl or some such nice bowl game. I'm more then ready for a bowl game!

Posted by cjcohen on July 9, 2007 at 12:43 PM

To The Editor:

I have intention of buying this latest installment of

cable and sports exploitation at any price, The Big Ten

Channel is a major offense of this marketing direction.

If we all say no, they just might get the message.

Jeff Nelson

Urbana

Posted by Cedric on July 9, 2007 at 2:23 PM

When it comes to Teresa Grentz and the total waste of white space, when it comes to reporting on her, I offer the following from Beavis and Butthead:

"Words............words..............words..............huuhuhuuhuhuhuhuuhuhuhuuh!!!!!!!"

Posted by mbeesley on July 9, 2007 at 11:23 PM

What about satellite services such as Dish Network and Direct TV

Posted by jarvis1 on July 10, 2007 at 10:48 AM

Don't forget...Blogo gets a pay raise as well as the legislators if he signs the "pay raise" bill. It's a disgrace that these "Chicago politicians" have no shame, sense of responsibility, or even a minute modicum of honor. ALL legislative "pay raises" should have to be presented to the voters of the state to approve or reject by a general ballot and should not go into effect until after the next election if it happened to get the votors approval!

The "public servants" that have been elected to the legislature and governorship in Illinois are nothing but a bunch of scam artists taking advantage of the taxpaying citizens of Illinois to pad their own pensions and pocketbooks, while neglecting the very responsibilities they were elected to do.

Wouldn't it be great if the rest of the state could/would secede from Crook County? Let them keep their "Chicago politician" socialist/communist "leaders"!

Posted by FReRydr on July 11, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Here's hoping he amounts to nothing and has a horrible career at Michigan.

Posted by dguire on July 12, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Good luck to him! Great to see if he's not going to Illinois, at least he picked a great Big Ten School.

Posted by aratnakar on July 12, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Having lived in Orange County for most of my adult life I can categorically state that most of the cars are NOT Lexus, Mercedes, Porsche. Not even in Newport Beach.

Good luck at being a career back-up at scUM.

Posted by jorge on July 12, 2007 at 2:20 PM

Hey jorge and dguire, why do I get the feeling that you are the types that get tossed from t-ball games for yelling at the umps? Believe it or not, it's ok to feel good about a local kid taking advantage of a great opportunity without losing your "status" as an Illini fan.

Posted by jmluse on July 12, 2007 at 10:06 PM

jmluse, never been tossed from any game and I've coached t-ball!

Posted by dguire on July 13, 2007 at 12:14 PM

Interesting thst you seem to have concerns about the needy in this editorial however you (previosuly) have bashed and criticized any attempt to generate funds for the Township to address those concerns.

Posted by mattvarbl on July 13, 2007 at 3:31 PM

This situation in SPRINGFIELD, THE STATE CAPITOL, has been FAR from humerous, to see elected officials, who are supposed to have the well-being of the state as well as the "integrity" to be FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE with the assets of the people of Illinois acting as spoiled year old brats is DISGUSTING!!

As far as your statement "...all this extra time legislators have to spend in Springfield doesn't hurt anyone ..." is a blatant lie!! What about all the taxpayer's money being spent in special session fees, overtime pay, etc.? Even if this state was NOT financially strapped, wouldn't this constitute a blatant WASTE of taxpayer's assets?!

It is hard to tell if governor Blogo is in Emil's (Jones, senate pres.) pocket or if Emil is in Blogo's pocket but it is truly evident that they are stroking each others *****(male appendage)(egos, to be socially accepable). The people of Illinois need to have these two fools indicted, prosecuted, recalled for malfesance in office or whatever it takes to get them out of the "leadership" of our fine state to try and repair the damage they are doing to the state government through neglect and inaction and/or cronyism and favortism and "pay-to-play" in hiring and contracts for work/employment in state positions.

Posted by FReRydr on July 16, 2007 at 11:32 AM

Wow, tell us how you really feel!

I take your point about the Big 10's overall toughness, but I'm gonna support Coach Zook for the best reason I know -- he's the Illini coach and I've been an Illini fan long enough to've seen Butkus and Grabowski play as a grade schooler.

That said, I really think you're far too pessimistic about the talent we've brought in and the close losses last year -- arguably those losses were due to less talent and lack of experience. With those two problems hopefully remedied, let's see what we can do!

Posted by jeffh on July 16, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Zook has never had an opprtunity to win

with the talent he brought in and I think that he will. I'm tired of hearing

that RZ can recruit but not coach and

BW can coach but not recruit.

Posted by walker on July 16, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Stovall's analysis was typical of today's fans. They want instant gratification or demand that the coach be fired. RZ deserves five years on the job minimum.

Posted by aratnakar on July 16, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Walker -- nicely said, Sir!

I'm tired of hearing those things about RZ and BW too.

Posted by jeffh on July 16, 2007 at 3:00 PM

Title IX has killed American men's gymnastics.

Posted by lroller on July 16, 2007 at 3:28 PM

Its hard to be optimistic when we have only won three games the last two years.

We were competitive last year but we always found a way to lose.

I say if we go 4-8 this year we will have made progress.

No way this team goes to a bowl game this year.

Only the die hard fans that wear their orange and blue rose colored glasses say

that.

At least RZ can recruit. Thats something Ron Turner could never do.

Posted by dave1956 on July 16, 2007 at 3:36 PM

Gentleman...during those terrible years at Florida what was Zook's record...in a tough conference that demands "big wins" each week. Now go back over his record and give some evidence that you know what you are talking about! The mind set and attitude have a lot to do with winning and evidently this fact has been ignored which Benny obviously needs to work on.

Posted by dallen on July 16, 2007 at 10:56 PM

I live in New York and saw you with the Knicks a few times and hope you get back in the League.

I agree there are several point guards out there not as good as you.

All the best, Frank!

Posted by jeffh on July 18, 2007 at 12:08 PM

Paul-

when you say "a vocal minority misplaces its marbles," is that to suggest that any vocal concern by the fanbase over what looks to some like an undesirable pattern is to be ignored as overreaction?

Posted by optimator on July 18, 2007 at 1:45 PM

I have been a fan of caoch Webber since he came to Illinois. I do not believe that technically there is a better coach in the country. A coach will, eventually, be only as good as the talent he recruits. Coach Webber has recruited only one top 100 recruit to Illinois. Last year we ended up with the best of the rest. This year we started out with six top 100 recruits that had us on their list. So far three of those players have committed to other schools. There are only three top 100 players that even have the UI on their list, and none of those are looking very good. Five other Big Ten schools have a total of ten 2008 top 100 commitments, we have none. I hate to say it but it is starting to look like the UI BB recruiting is taking a sharp turn south. I hope I am wrong but I can't see how the UI will be a threat to the Big Ten Title any time in the near future.

Posted by jarmstrong on July 18, 2007 at 2:19 PM

Suggs will start immediately and maximize his development into a top draft choice under the coaching of Weber - I hope he understands that the opportunity is unique.

Posted by swatlas on July 18, 2007 at 6:48 PM

with the talent we already have, guys like dunnigan and liggons would not have

been much of a factor anyway. again, i'm

enthused about semrau, tisdale, mcamey,

etc for the future as pooposed to some

4 star guy that is no guarantee to be as good as people think.

Posted by walker on July 18, 2007 at 8:09 PM

saw him as a hs jr @ the stl kmox shootout and was the best ever...schooled ku/bull guard every time

Posted by rmitchell on July 18, 2007 at 8:31 PM

walker, you're smokin' weed. our recruiting sucks

Posted by rmitchell on July 18, 2007 at 8:35 PM

thank god, finally some reason. as an illini fan it's hard to admit that the coach who took us to the final four is overrated, but he is. blowing double digit leads in the ncaa tourney the last 2 season takes away from the only credibility he ever had, as a great in-game coach. he's obviously a horrendous recruiter, results are the only thing that matters. it's disappointing that the ng has klee, a bigger weber fan than illini fan, to cover bball.

Posted by plogli on July 19, 2007 at 12:58 AM

Isn't it a little bit early to be writing off Illini recruiting this year, especially since Suggs, Shumpert and Walker have yet to commit to anyone? The incoming freshmen are a solid class and I believe they will be apart of some highly successful teams before they are finished.

Posted by jeohaver on July 19, 2007 at 10:16 AM

Right on Mr. Tate!

What we have is NOW. We have the players that want to be here.

Future recruits, leave your EGOS at home. I would take team oriented athletes over 'one and dones' with EGOS any day.

Weber knows what he wants in a player and is obviously a man of principles.

I have a very positive feeling with this program. I would not be surprised to see what is now a very athletic and competitive team, with size, on the court this next season challenge for the conference title.

O.K. Now pass me some more of that orange kool-aide.

Posted by Frcook on July 19, 2007 at 1:04 PM

I agree that we need to land either Shumpert, Suggs or Miller (maybe even

2 of those 3) but who on earth can say

whether Dunnigan is better than Carlwell

or that Humphrey is better than Watkins

or Jamar or McCamey ? i like the group

that we have right now, especially with

full health Weber motivating them.

Posted by walker on July 19, 2007 at 1:44 PM

Until proven otherwise by a string of lackluster seasons, which I don't see happening, I'm going to trust that Bruce Weber & his staff know what they are doing. Personally, I'm not interested in bring any of those me-first, one-and-done supposed superstars. Give me a team of players committed to the long haul.

And now I'm going to go sit in the rocking chair & take up my knitting. ;-)

Posted by cjcohen on July 19, 2007 at 2:03 PM

On target as usual, Loren!

I don't overlook Weber's coaching ability, including motivating guys who may have been overlooked, and on any given night who knows what can happen?

Those presently pushing the panic button are premature at best.

Posted by jeffh on July 19, 2007 at 2:15 PM

The guy that I want to really see is Alexander....is he similar to Cleotis Brown? If so, i think he can make an impact this year.....and with him, Q, and McCamey, we have really upgraded the athleticism of the team compared to 2006-7.

Posted by kglenn on July 19, 2007 at 3:08 PM

plogli - thanks for confirming that it was Weber that turned the ball over like a hot potato countless times in the 2nd half vs VTU. Keep up the awesomely ridiculous posts, bud...

Posted by NateFromBtown on July 19, 2007 at 8:04 PM

Thanks for the positive reinforcement!!!!

Posted by lflodin on July 20, 2007 at 12:37 AM

Great article Loren...My only problem is I don't want there to be another 16 years in between Final Four appearances. I don't just want to win league titles, I want a NCAA Championship. Will the talent we keep bringing in accomplish that???

Posted by dguire on July 20, 2007 at 11:03 AM

Well written Loren Tate. This year will tell us a lot as last year was an unfortunate disaster. I think we have the players who could mesh together to be a formidable team. I like players who want to stay around for at least three years. Go Illinois!!!!

Posted by Lanse on July 20, 2007 at 12:14 PM

anyone who doesn't hold a coach accountable for his team's turnover problems has never spent any significant time around basketball. turnovers, poor execution, missed free throws, etc. all point to poor coaching, nate.

Posted by plogli on July 20, 2007 at 9:18 PM

Give us your idea on what kind of season we are going to see this fall.

Football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harold I. Coon

hcoon@insigh.rr.com

Posted by hicoon on July 21, 2007 at 11:32 AM

Loren, I like the looks of our defense, and thought that if they had received some help -- field position and time off of the field -- from the offense and special teams after the Ohio U debacle, we would all be singing its praises.

Posted by jjohnson on July 22, 2007 at 3:15 PM

What an alarmist and reactionary editorial (shocking). How about all the other cities across the U.S. that have done this without the sky fallig? For example: Pittsburgh, PA; Cleveland, OH; Dallas, TX; Albany, NY; Seattle, WA; Denver, CO etc.

All of these above mentioned places have these types of police review boards and are doing just fine, but for some reason in Champaign or Urbana it's a different story froguht with all these concerns according to the News-Gazette when in fact the record and past history elsewhere tells quite a different account. Contrary to your editorial this isn't anything new and isn't a "fascinating experiment" by any stretch.

Posted by mattvarbl on July 22, 2007 at 3:33 PM

Great story Paul

Posted by aratnakar on July 22, 2007 at 4:56 PM

I agree with your notice of Johnny Flynn of Syracuse, with one exception - this kid is an absolute superstar, even among the McDAAs, and that tops what Dee was at his stage. Flynn is at a far higher level offensively. I love Dee, but Flynn is going to be even better, imo.

Posted by swatlas on July 23, 2007 at 10:42 AM

Boy, nothing like reliving old Illini losses! How about the 2001 season comebacks vs. Wisky and Penn State?

Posted by mbeesley on July 23, 2007 at 9:21 PM

2 of our 3 are losses? oh great.

Posted by jhelms on July 24, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Agreed on the Dee Brown comparison. Maybe you caught Flynn and Team USA in the World Championships last week, he was the best player on the floor much of the time... Syracuse is going to make Big (East) Mondays must-see TV.

-pk

Posted by pklee on July 25, 2007 at 9:28 AM

Thank you. pk

Posted by pklee on July 25, 2007 at 9:29 AM

Yeah! Take that, nanny state! And while you're at it, why don't you stop "messing with" the livelihoods of cocaine dealers and sweatshops!

Posted by javajunkee on July 25, 2007 at 12:40 PM

God bless you Lou. Thanks for the 21 seasons.

Posted by lroller on July 25, 2007 at 1:28 PM

The city of Champaign only had a partial repeal of the smoking ban (they voted to exempt class A liquor license holders only from the existing smoking ban) and a large portion of establishments are still covered by the city's current smoke free ordinance. They did not totally repeal the smoking ban. Why the NG keeps reporting the incorrect information about what actually happened is beyond comprehension.

Posted by mattvarbl on July 25, 2007 at 2:36 PM

The News-Gazette slanting the news to further its agenda? Surely you jest, Matt!

Posted by JRR on July 25, 2007 at 2:51 PM

Lou will always and forever be my favorite ILLINI coach, HE is the greatest

Posted by bmorphy on July 25, 2007 at 3:31 PM

How about the 1990 victory over eventual national champ Colorado???? GMAB. Glad I don't have the BTN.

Posted by rbarnes on July 25, 2007 at 9:44 PM

Turner led the Illini to the Sugar Bowl. Look where that got us today. I hope Guenther does not make the same mistake in basketball.

Posted by jjrepp on July 25, 2007 at 11:32 PM

I think the order of improvement needs to be changed.

1. Kicking (punting to more specific).

2. Limit the turnovers.

3. The defense. Many points were scored against the defense on special teams and the offense turning over the ball. Left the defense in a hole and gave the opponent a short field.

Posted by jjrepp on July 25, 2007 at 11:42 PM

Our prayers are with you, Lou!

Posted by jeohaver on July 26, 2007 at 9:54 AM

Lou is such an unbelievably fine credit to his profession and to the U. of I. . . . and a very decent human being

Posted by jjohnson on July 26, 2007 at 6:06 PM

With out a doubt, the most 'CLASSIEST' college basketball coach to have ever walked the court not to mention an outstanding individual who would have been successful in any profession he chose. You can not say enough goods things about Lou Henson.

Best wishes to Lou and his family.

Posted by Frcook on July 27, 2007 at 8:52 AM

Loren,

Never agreed with decision but upon reflection and especially, your well thought out, written article, I can accept. But I cannot accept.............Fl. State's spear..... while we are left with music but not even a feather.

Just tooooo injust.

LOU Proano

Posted by louproano on July 28, 2007 at 6:36 AM

You might also want to check Wisconsin's six-year record in the NCAA Tournament - is that kind of "success" we want?

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 2:52 PM

jersey #30

and no mention of Frank?

Posted by optimator on July 29, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Frank Williams wasn't overlooked, I promise. Here are the other players who wore #30 before Bill Cole.... Frank Williams, Robert Bennett, Scott Meents, Mike Wente, Randy Crews, Deon Flessner, Jeff Ferguson, Phil Judson, Howard Judson.

pk

Posted by pklee on July 29, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Blah.

Tate routinely goes back and forth between "positive" and "negative" assessments.

Recall that this is the same fellow who said after multiple games last season that we just didn't have anyone to score. Is this going to change?

The recruiting is lousy, and Weber has become vastly overrated as a bench coach.

Welcome to the mid-90s again. 22-win seasons and first weekend NCAA tourney exits (if we even make it).

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 6:08 PM

Oh, and not to mention this notion that the top-in-state players routinely spurn Illinois is absolutley absurd, and is merely a product of Mr. Tate's lontime anti-Chicago agenda.

Hate to point this out, but 4/5 starters on the 2005 team that went 37-2 were Chicago guys.

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 6:11 PM

Sight, such nonsense.

It's not about rankings. The reason we know that Weber is failing at recruiting is the number of his first-choice prospects that have gotten away. The rankings don't matter - it's the fact that guys like Frazier, Jackson, McCamey, Alexander, and Watkins were second and third choices for the staff (and lest people think rankings don't matter, is it just a coincidence that the #1 choices that got away were highly ranked?).

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 7:09 PM

"Just because you didn't win the Final Four or the Big Ten, doesn't mean you don't have good players?"

Right, and just because my Aunt is a woman, doesn't mean she's not my Uncle.

Good Lord, what kidn of mentality is that? If you're not winning big, what's the point of what you're doing?

What a loser attitude.

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 7:15 PM

So, the News-Gazette keeps running articles where the implication is that the "vocal minority" is a little nutty for their criticism of Weber, and that recruiting criticims are unfounded, and then you get an admission like the Illini will struggle to score from the perimeter without Jamar Smith.

Why would that be? Is it because the talent coming in to the program hasn't been very good becuase, I don't know, recruiting has been sub-par?

Nah, that makes too much sense.

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 7:18 PM

I'm not worried about getting to a Final Four anytime soon.

Frankly, the standard for success at Illinois is top 4 seeds (more than half the time in the last 25 years), and a realistic shot at the Sweet 16.

Didn't happen last year, and doesn't look to happen next year either.

Posted by ralexander on July 29, 2007 at 7:36 PM

I do not like the Big Ten taking games that are free and making us fans pay for it. Worse is to make those who could give a hoot about Big Ten pay for a network they will never watch. Shame on the Big Ten ... this is simply a case of GREED.

If the Big Ten get's away with charging $1.10 per subscriber, how much will cable/dish networks ultimately charge it's customers? $2? $3? $7?

I am on the side of cable/dish networks on this one. I will not get Direct TV, no matter what Zook, Weber or any other Illini official says. I am prepared to not watch any games on the Big Ten Network, since doing so would be caving in to the GREED of the Big Ten.

Posted by ccherry on July 29, 2007 at 8:18 PM

Seriously, why the animosity towards Chicago? Despite your ridiculous views, it IS part of this state. In fact, it makes up a majority of the state. Downstaters are in the majority - most of the student body is from upstate, not downstate.

And it's only politically correct if you disagree with it, isn't it? When the media goes after a politician for misspeaking about the troops, and they have to backtrack, do you consider that the PC police? Probably not. But if it's about a minority culture, suddenly it's political correctness run amok.

Posted by ralexander on July 30, 2007 at 1:29 AM

Ok, so if people refuse to turn over evidence or refuse to appear before the review board or refuse to answer legitimate questions then what is this board supposed to do in order to effectively review an allegation of misconduct or improper procedure? Otherwise you'd wind up like the City of Champaign Human Relations Commission (a useless and spineless do nothing body charged with somehow protecting human rights but not equipped with the ability or tools to do so).

Posted by mattvarbl on July 30, 2007 at 10:28 AM

How about kicking Penn State out and having 10 teams again, with a complete round robin schedule in basketball and a full conference shedule in football as well. Penn State and the Big Ten would do well to part company. I know it's all about the money which is the only reason we have to have a conference basketball tournament as well, but let's not lower the status of the Big Ten by admitting a university the likes of Missouri, Iowa State, etc.

Posted by kellytm on July 30, 2007 at 11:28 AM

3 guys from USC ? Can that be possible

Posted by walker on July 30, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Ralexander, since you are consumed with the majority/minority viewpoint, when a majority of the student body and alumni favor retaining the Chief as the symbol of the University of Illinois, it is clearly a minority viewpoint that has prevailed, not surprisingly because of the makeup of the Board of Trustees which clearly do not represent the majority.

Posted by kellytm on July 30, 2007 at 2:09 PM

Wanting a FF every year is just not feasible. The goal should be sweet 16 appearances. If you can get past the first weekend in the dance, then its a whole new game.

Imagine how much more work a sweet 16 appearance will become if the field expands to include more teams?

Posted by jmeans on July 30, 2007 at 8:39 PM

To have "shame" or "remorse" a person has to have a modicum of "honor". An honorable person would never attempt, or even consider, pilfering from their "employer" such as this despicable thief Elnora Daniel has done. To be in such a position as president of a public university and do these type of things she should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for malfesance in office, repay all pilfered monies plus a fine at least equal to the ammount of the pilfered monies and be removed from her position with no chance for further employment through the state and lose any and all state pension she has acrued!

Posted by FReRydr on July 30, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Points well made Loren, but I am tired of losing at IU in games we should win, and now is the time to turn that around!

Posted by jjohnson on August 2, 2007 at 2:46 PM

The Irish are getting to may blue chippers from Chicaho...not good!

Posted by dallen on August 4, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Yay, football!

Posted by jmeans on August 6, 2007 at 3:31 PM

What a class act. Best of luck J on the upcomming season!

Posted by rbarnes on August 6, 2007 at 10:24 PM

Vontae only #6???

Posted by rbarnes on August 6, 2007 at 10:27 PM

Finally our Illinois football team begins to accumulate the talent and depth it needs to successfully compete. Hopefully our young players will be allowed sufficient time to learn the necessary skills at the Big Ten level before they are asked to do too much. This should be an exciting year for Illini FB fans.

Posted by Lanse on August 8, 2007 at 4:26 PM

This team is going to be a lot of fun to watch!

Posted by jeohaver on August 11, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Where is Dave Winfield, drafted in baseball, basket ball and football. Also Quinn Buckner was a starting d-back with the Hoosiers his freshman year, Jackie Robinson who started in UCLA's backfield and ran college track as well as his hall of fame baseball career and Illini Dike Eddleman, Silver medalist in the high jump and all Big Ten basketball and Lou Boudreau Hall of fame baseball and starting with Illini basketball...anyway, these are some of my favorites.

Posted by jeohaver on August 11, 2007 at 3:01 PM

Thank You J for being the ultimate team player!

Posted by Hoot on August 11, 2007 at 3:08 PM

Too bad the state can't fund its "core state services" without whoring itself out to the highest bidder.

I get a bit uneasy when big government gets too cozy with big business. And I'm a bit uneasy with an arrangement that appears to be an endorsement of Pepsi's products and business practices  or that of any other exclusive partner  by the people of the state of Illinois.

It's a creative arrangement, but not one that I particularly favor.

Posted by JRR on August 13, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Always great to read about Joel Hirsch

Posted by lflodin on August 14, 2007 at 11:17 PM

Can't be, since "Bruce can't recruit."

Posted by jjohnson on August 15, 2007 at 3:33 PM

The first comment was a typical boneheaded one--and totally expected--that Bruce can't recruit. People who understand basketball acknowledge Bruce's acumen of the game and the integrity of his recruiting.

Posted by counselorduke on August 15, 2007 at 5:23 PM

counselorduke:

Please look up the definition of "sarcasm" and then go back and read the first comment by jjohnson...Good grief.

Posted by dguire on August 15, 2007 at 6:46 PM

seven new players .---is that a record !!

Posted by lflodin on August 15, 2007 at 11:44 PM

How are those bad ideas?

The amount of plastic thrown into landfills because people can't fill up a cup from home using the drinking fountain down the hall is absolutely ludicrous. And lots of the time the bottled water is simply taken from an urban public water supply anyway. Paying for water in a plastic bottle instead of using the drinking fountain is a "bad idea" (especially in Chicago where the water tastes better than it does here).

And while writing tickets for sloppy dressers is probably a bit over the top, it really is rather silly that people walk around with their underwear hanging out of their pants (that are too big on purpose).

Posted by Mike on August 16, 2007 at 2:27 PM

This is Rich Patton from Alaska. I am a long time Illini fan and grew up in Champaign. I am Robb's brother and long time friend of Steve and Laurie.

Who can I write to express my opinion on Jamar Smith. I am in my 32nd year of education, most it as a high shcool principal. I have seen many kids helped by coaches. Jamar seems like a really good kid. Alcohol problems are rampant amoung youth and Jamar is probably not unlike many other young people. Jamar needs the support of the good coaches at the UI, the support of his team mates and a positive activity. Most caoches reach very far to help kids and I have witnessed many studnets whose lives have been changed by positive and supportive coaches that did not give up on students.

Posted by Monica on August 16, 2007 at 6:41 PM

I support the cable companies stance against the BTN. The $1.10 per month charge is too much. If I understand programming-debt-profit formula correctly, that will translate to each customer paying $3.30 a month or nearly $40 a year. That's a lot money to add to the cable bill ... especially for households who will not be watching the BTN.

Posted by ccherry on August 17, 2007 at 12:36 PM

Just an ugly situation. We garnered some savings by obtaining our phone, internet and cable all from Comcast. Switching to another TV system isn't a very attractive option. I'd rather pay for an upgraded package and see the games than miss out while the combatants play chicken.

Posted by knystrom on August 17, 2007 at 1:18 PM

Let the battle escalate to the supreme court,if necessary. If it means that the industry will ultimately move away from selling me something I don't want or need, it will be more than worth it. Quite frankly, until they do, I'm not buying. In the meantime, I will continue to watch every televised game just as I always have, with other Illini at the local eatery. Maybe some of the readers should join us.

Posted by Hoot on August 17, 2007 at 3:02 PM

I would like to see a new basketball arena. Why not turn the assembly hall into a world class planetarium and turn it over to the physics department?

Posted by rpuckett on August 19, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Loren, I've been travelling abroad and away from my computer during that time, so it was quite moving and refreshing to see this column.

Up to your usual high standards -- please keep 'em coming, or "Keep on keepin' on" or what ever other term you might prefer!

Thank you.

Posted by jeffh on August 20, 2007 at 9:29 AM

God bless Lou -- you'll always be much loved in IlliniNation.

Posted by jeffh on August 20, 2007 at 12:25 PM

We are still letting to many Illinois guys go to other schools...that needs to be corrected!

Posted by dallen on August 20, 2007 at 3:55 PM

Hooray, another skinny, 6'9'' PF who needs time to develop. Just what we need.

Plus, with Semrau returning as a freshman, we have 4 bigs in one class. Great for class balance.

Posted by ralexander on August 20, 2007 at 9:58 PM

As an Illini fan living outside the Midwest, this network is a God-send. No longer do I have to pay outrageous subscription prices for ESPN GamePlan or FullCourt.

I made the swtich to DirecTV. Now, I get more channels, for less money, plus access to all the Illini games.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Posted by ralexander on August 22, 2007 at 9:41 PM

Who is going to put the ball in the hole?

Posted by dallen on August 23, 2007 at 1:40 AM

bleepn wonderful

i'm w/dallen

Posted by rmitchell on August 23, 2007 at 7:20 AM

It's not about "mythical recruiting championships" and ratings. A lot of folks make it about that, but that's not the issue.

The issue, is that the staff regularly misses on their first choices, without much evident planning for choice B (save Demetri McCamey).

Not only that, but the current roster is woefully imbalanced between the frontcourt and backcourt, and it would appear the staff has brought in a lot of 6'9'' PFs with similar skill sets, and not nearly enough guards and wing players with clear abilities to score - either as shooters or off the dribble.

With Semrau as a returning redshirt freshman, the current freshman class contains 4 "bigs" which is just absurd for class balance.

It's not about ratings - it's just about the fact that the staff just hasn't built a well-balanced roster, and that goes directly to recruiting failures that create all the consternation.

Posted by ralexander on August 24, 2007 at 1:26 AM

Loren, I think the first part of your article is spot on. The rest is informative and interesting as usual.

Posted by counselorduke on August 24, 2007 at 5:30 PM

They have until mid September. If they do not have it available on Insight then I'm going to DirecTV. I won't return to Insight.

Posted by alcaldwell on August 24, 2007 at 6:43 PM

Smith was drunk out of his mind and damn near killed someone-ask someone who has lost a child to a drunk driver and see if they think the measures are overly punitive. Smith is being given a second chance-he could have been booted entirely. The reason there is a large number of deaths in this country due to drunk driving in that drunk drivers are given far too many "second" chances. Some European countries have figured that out-drive drunk and you might not drive again-ever. I'm appalled that you think the athletic department should be allowed to make the decisions in this matter.

Posted by bstouffer on August 24, 2007 at 8:59 PM

The problem is our inability to recruit shooters, not our university administration.

Posted by jfrisina on August 24, 2007 at 11:36 PM

This is a ridiculous article. This was not an overreaction - there had been four major off-court incidents under Weber in the last 5 years (more than the last 25 years combined) and an example had to be made. Who knows - if Weber had been harsher on Rich McBride or Shaun Pruitt or Luther Head, Jamar Smith might have had second thoughts before drinking and getting behind the wheel during a snowstorm.

When your coach says "snowstorm tonight, I don't want anybody drinking" and the players are partying an hour later, there's a serious problem of respect and discipline that has to be addressed.

And perhaps it's unfair to Smith that he has to suffer disproportionately (although I think the punishment is perfectly fair, and would have been fine if he had been suspended for the year and lost a year of eligibility) to protect the University image, that's the cost of his position in the community - he gets a free education at a top institution, a vast amount of experiences and travel that other students don't have access too because of his God-given ability to shoot the basketball, and an elevated social status in the community. In return, he is a public representative of the University, and has to be held to a higher standard.

Oh, and McCamey and Frazier have the leg up on the guard spots, because at this point, THEY'RE THE ONLY TWO SCHOLARSHIP GUARDS.

Posted by ralexander on August 24, 2007 at 11:53 PM

Concerns for Jamar as an individual went by the wayside when he decided to drive at nearly 3 times the legal limit, and put his teammate and the life of everyone else on the road in jeopardy. Plus, as a public representative of the University he simply has to be held to a higher standard.

A lot of decisions had been left to the athletic department for the last 5 years, and the basketball program is approaching a state of disrepair. Perhaps we're better off with the administration deciding a few things for once.

Posted by ralexander on August 24, 2007 at 11:56 PM

Oh, and if Mr. Tate is so aghast at Jamar's treatment, why not a word about Ellis and McPhearson being kicked off the team before they had even been brought to trial for their involvement in the robbery. Zook didn't even blink before booting them.

THAT'S how you handle discipline. See how much better the football team stays in line now (vs. a seemingly endless parade of off-court problems for Weber in 5 years).

Posted by ralexander on August 24, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Hey alcaldwell, I'm with you, but tell that to Comcast. They won't start changing their stance until customers start moving with their wallet.

I made the switch, and I'm perfectly happy.

Posted by ralexander on August 25, 2007 at 12:02 AM

I completely agree -- this decision had nothing to do with the individual and everything to do with PR. I remember agreeing with the folks who said that Luther Head should have been dismissed from the team. Instead, Coach Weber gave him the opportunity to chage his behavior and it's turned out well...for Luther. Weber has demonstrated that his first goal is teaching these kids to be successful, productive citizens and his track record has earned him the right to make these decisions.

And I believe the big difference between Smith and the football players comes down to one word -- intent. That's the difference between an accident and a crime.

Posted by lhobson on August 25, 2007 at 9:16 AM

BRUCE - Wake up and offer ALL the 09 kids you think are good, RIGHT NOW! Take the hint that DJ is not coming. Your standard operating procedure is NOT working with recruiting.

Posted by swatlas on August 26, 2007 at 1:47 PM

Recruiting is the problem with Illinois basketball...and I don't know why!?

Posted by dallen on August 26, 2007 at 7:39 PM

Thanks, Bob, that's the most encouraging article I've seen on the BT Network to date. As a Comcast Expanded Basic subscriber, I don't want either an ugle cable box, or an ugly dish hanging on my house. I quess I'll be listening to the road football games on the radio this year, since I'm a season football ticket holder.

My question before reading this is why can't I stream the BT Network and avoid the cable companies all together? I would like to do as - and even be able to pay-per-view the shows I want. Why in the world would I want to watch the Mike Davis Show ;-)Now this article gives me some hope that I will be able to do so in the near future.

Thanks Bob, keep up the great work!!

Posted by rbarnes on August 26, 2007 at 9:55 PM

Why the skepticism on Watkins' eligibility? The clearing house does take time

Posted by jjohnson on August 26, 2007 at 10:24 PM

too bad we can't get Tep back as a

defensive coordinator, which is where I

always felt was his niche in the college

football world.

Posted by walker on August 27, 2007 at 11:39 AM

Here's hoping for a good start to the season and a good year. This program is in so much need of some wins.

Posted by dguire on August 27, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Good luck, guys -- I'm cautiously optomistic!!

Posted by jeffh on August 27, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Swatias may have a point. It is not uncommon for a major program to have two or times the offers made as they have to give. Kansas and Indiana each have close to fifteen offers out to the 2008 class. ( I have counted them on Scout Hoops.) I am sure they can't have many more than five scholarships to give. The shot gun approach seems to be working for them.

Posted by jarmstrong on August 27, 2007 at 2:20 PM

Lovely, Weber has built a team with 2 scholarship guards.

(And losing Smith and Watkins has nothing to do with it - as we learned last year, carrying 4 guards on a team is just not enough to weather injuries, academic and off the court issues).

Posted by ralexander on August 28, 2007 at 10:22 PM

Why is this game O.T.B. on the betting sites..---Is there an injury somewhere..--and the line went from 5.5 down to 4..???????

Posted by lflodin on August 29, 2007 at 12:39 AM

While all the new restrictions placed on new drivers are beneficial, 1 more can be added. Watching a video of an actual drunk driving accident scene may also serve as a reminder to them what can happen if they drink and drive.

Posted by khbdab on August 29, 2007 at 1:06 PM

Watkins will never suit up for Illinois, he will stay closer to home.

Just another recruiting disappointment

in Illini recruiting.

Posted by dguire on August 29, 2007 at 1:30 PM

LT,

I gotta think Gus would be calling for Zook's and Weber's heads if there was no post-season action for two to three years. Wins against the teams you mention would be huge in terms of national profile, but there are no style points for teams that lose those marquee matchups and end up at or below .500. The bids don't come.

Posted by knystrom on August 29, 2007 at 1:41 PM

I feel bad for Coach Weber that this had to happen at this time. However, I have to ask the question, why is it that we have received so many disappointing setbacks recently. Surely the law of averages will begin to catch up with/for us.

Posted by Lanse on August 29, 2007 at 2:25 PM

I do not care for the Illinois - Missou game, even though I make the trip from Chicago to see them. It may mean money in the till, but that is all, and indoor footballadds to the lack of excitement.

At the same time, I personally like the west coast and out-of-region games; if we are going to be the best, it won't come from playing patsies, and as anyone who makes these trips knows, they are enjoyable and the comradery among fans is great.

As for non-conference basketball, I couldn't agree more.

Posted by jjohnson on August 29, 2007 at 2:27 PM

Loren, what in the world are you talking about?

Most fans have no interest in the Missouri series this year, and I've never heard a peep out of any of my fellow Illini fans about playing some of these teams you mention.

Your articles are usually quite good, but this was a rambling pile of nonsense.

Oh, and Illinois is NOT a small market team. Compared to Ohio State, maybe. Compared to most of DI-A? Not in the least.

Posted by ralexander on August 30, 2007 at 1:47 AM

How complicated can this be? A recruit must achieve a qualifing score on his ACT test and have completed established required core high school courses. How hard would it be to check this out? Did we drop the ball on this?

Posted by jarmstrong on August 30, 2007 at 11:27 AM

Kansas State opens at Auburn on Saturday, so the Wildcats can't be blamed for having a weak non-conference schedule anymore.

Memphis is a mid-level C-USA school--there is no way Illinois should be playing a home and away football series with the Tigers.

Posted by jcole on August 30, 2007 at 1:34 PM

Translation-be prepared for some more poor punting. The words, "whoever's out there, it's going to be better than last year" are hardly comforting. Easy to visualize a close game lost because of a poor punt-the excuse that "we didn't lose the game because of the punting" won't fly two years in a row.

Posted by bstouffer on August 30, 2007 at 7:16 PM

Q was not projected to play a lot of minutes this year, realistically, anyway. Hopefully he ends up coming for 08 - he was not a huge part of the current year, despite what the Weber haters want to believe.

Posted by swatlas on August 30, 2007 at 10:51 PM

You are complaing about a 6% pay raise... this is what is wrong with education systems nationwide. You alrady have a healthy pension, and most if not all of your health beneifts are covered, and you are paid a good wage, and get 2 months off every year, yet are paid for 12 months. Most people are lucky to get COLA (cost of living adjustment) as a pay raise. Be happy that the legislature dud not mandate that.

Posted by karlyn1219 on August 31, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Well said, Karlyn. The only part I disagree with is the statement about having 2 months off every year. Between summer break, holidays, spring break, and winter break, that seems closer to four months off.

And while we're all told how little money teachers are paid, that's not the case either (especially for only having to work eight months a year). And that information happens to be public information. Go check out www.thechampion.org and see for yourself just how "little" our teachers are paid compared to the rest of society. Don't get me wrong--I think teachers deserve to be paid well. I just don't like hearing them act like they aren't.

Posted by Mike on August 31, 2007 at 1:55 PM

If Watkins wanted to stay closer to home, as dguire suggests,he could easily have done thav in the 1st place. He had offers from several west coast teams and was reported to be receiving an offer from USC when he committed. He couldn't go any where with the corp group problems he reportedly has. The opportunity still exists at the 2 guard, so why wouldn't he want to come back after a year in prep school???

Posted by jeohaver on September 1, 2007 at 12:42 AM

New year and same results...This program will NEVER amount to anything no matter who coaches. It will always amaze me how a big state school like Illinois sucks so bad at football. I've been following since Moeller and there is always some new way the Illini find to lose a game.

Here's to another year of "if only" and "would haves"...Moral victories are hollow, if they meant something, this program would be a national power.

Posted by dguire on September 2, 2007 at 12:32 PM

2 comments: (1) It wasn't due to Yelton that his punt was returned; it was high and deep enough, but the coverage flat out stunk on that one; (2) the defense did hold Missouri below 30; the punt return and the fumble recovery accounted for 14 of 40, and in my calculus class, that leaves something less than 30, though the defense certainly did not play to my bragging about how tough they had become.

Posted by jjohnson on September 2, 2007 at 9:36 PM

If the offense Missouri runs (short passes in the middle to tight ends) works so well, why doesn't IL try it once in awhile? If there is no way to defend it everyone would run that offense. We have heard all year about Jeff Cumberland and Michael Hoomanawanui - where were they yesterday??? These big time players can't do much from the sidelines.

Also, Martez Wilson has been billed as a terrific defender. Where was he yesterday when Missouri QB was passing at will??

Ron Zook has said all year that these freshmen are playmakers. Was that just talk?? Again, you can't make plays from the sidelines.

Posted by schristensen on September 2, 2007 at 11:11 PM

The year older, being more expierenced certainly showed. Ill. was much more skillfull at missing assignments, tackles, dropping passes and fumbling than last year. As an Illini since 1941, I just wish the powers that be would fire the goof up coach. There has to be one. No one team could be as inept for as many years as the Illin without someone teaching them how.

Posted by bkessler on September 3, 2007 at 9:10 AM

Did Semrau play in any of the Canadian games? Performance?

Posted by skarras on September 3, 2007 at 10:29 AM

yes he played, check the box score at fightingillini.com

Posted by dmcquality on September 3, 2007 at 11:18 AM

It's going to be a looooooong season.

Posted by ralexander on September 3, 2007 at 11:55 AM

McGhee earned a starting spot with a great performance under terrific pressure.Cmon Zook!!

Posted by FearTheChief on September 3, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Cmon Coach Locksley " he actually "maybe" brought us a "liitle spark" ????? Eddie McGee brought you back into the game !!!!....most exciting performance Ive seen from an Ilini QB in years !!!!

Posted by FearTheChief on September 3, 2007 at 4:22 PM

randle hurt & not playing? That sounds

all too familiar!!

Posted by walker on September 3, 2007 at 4:41 PM

mcghee's good points were offset by

his big mistakes. let's get Juice out

there and settle for Mcghee as a decent

backup

Posted by walker on September 3, 2007 at 4:48 PM

mcghee filled in with a brave effort, but there is no way in the world he should be our QB starter. gmab.

Posted by swatlas on September 3, 2007 at 11:19 PM

I believe we are going to have a very good team, if we can stay away from the injury bug. That's a very big "if". Some players are just injury prone. That may be Randle. I hope not, but he's not starting out well.

Posted by dhood on September 4, 2007 at 5:33 AM

Fans like to complain, even when we get a good player. We are spoiled!

Posted by dhood on September 4, 2007 at 5:43 AM

Fact Check: Mother Teresa was actually born in Skopje--which is now in the Republic of Macedonia--not Albania. She was ethnically Albanian, but not Albanian-born.

Posted by logicalpositivist on September 4, 2007 at 9:24 AM

Mizzu QB made some nice slides to avoid

being touched. Juice needs to learn to do that as well. At least we learned that we have a decend second string QB

on this team.

Posted by walker on September 4, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Juice should be the starting quarterback, at least for now. However, some rotation during each game would be a good way to bring along both young QB's. McGee will be better if he gets more game experience to get over the fumbleitis of the Missouri game. He did prove he is a capable backup who could end up being a better passer than Juice.

Posted by Lanse on September 4, 2007 at 1:08 PM

McGee served admirably, but aside from two bad passes at the start of the game (probably nerves) Juice looked confident, sharp and poised until he was knocked out. Two of his passes - one dropped by Morgan and one strike on the run to Gamble - were absolute things of beauty. Plus, he didn't fumble.

It's nice to know McGee can step in if needed, but Juice is the starter.

Posted by ralexander on September 4, 2007 at 1:41 PM

What can you say? Yuck.

Also, Weber needs to reevaluate what's he's doing to teach free throws. We've two consecutive season of near-historic lows, and it's not getting any better.

Posted by ralexander on September 4, 2007 at 1:51 PM

Having trouble beating Canadian teams does not bode well for this year. Could it be talent level???

Posted by dguire on September 4, 2007 at 1:53 PM

The Chief will live forever in the spirit of the

State of Illinois. The politically correct crowd has no grasp of reality in this issue, regardless of the rhetoric. The Chief and his values, Honor, Respect, Spirit, Courage, Strength, Bravery, and Loyality, are all worthy attibutes of all human beings. Not once did the Chief EVER display himself in the custom of a "typical" college mascot. There were never any sideline antics or "cheerleading". That was not the purpose of the Chief and the Illinois people would not have accepted such antics, and rightly so. The dance was not "correct"? So what! It was the ideal that mattered!

I have lived and breathed Orange and Blue all my life, having lived in the CU area for 46 of my 53 years, so don't be put off by my Iowa address. The Chief is and always will be a part of my life and whose virtues I am proud to say shaped the person I am. If that offends someone then maybe they should examine who THEY are and what they represent. I challenge anyone to say that any aspect of the representation of Chief Illini has made me a bad person. It is all quite the opposite. That is something the "outsiders" can't quite seem to understand and, even when explained, don't care to hear.

I plead to the People of Illinois and the true Illini fans... DO NOT ACCEPT any other form of "mascot" as a substitute. The Chief never was a "mascot" and never will be. He was a SYMBOL. Let "Fighting Illini" be our name and let no other "mascot" EVER attempt to shadow our Chief. The day that some clown performs antics to amuse the crowd at Illinois sporting events under the moniker of the Illinois "mascot" is the day that I cast off my Orange and Blue forever. That is not Illinois. Never has been, never will be.

Let us be FIGHTING ILLINI forever and LONG LIVE THE CHIEF! Accept no other!

Rick Tingley

Ankeny, Iowa

(Borned and raised in Sidney, Illinois)

Posted by rst1980 on September 4, 2007 at 9:08 PM

The talent is there. Weber is just experimenting with different lineups. Even great teams have trouble winning when they are experimenting. Come on Illini fans....have faith in the team and the coach. This team is going to surprise a lot of people. However, they do have to work on free throws.

Posted by dhood on September 4, 2007 at 11:11 PM

We will be better than last year - except in free throws, it seems. Our offense is clearly better and in the hands of DMac - look out Elite 8 as the sleeper team of the year.

Posted by swatlas on September 5, 2007 at 1:39 AM

I ran out of patience 5 years ago.

Posted by dguire on September 5, 2007 at 12:32 PM

It's going to be a long season.

Posted by vreato on September 5, 2007 at 1:49 PM

Ditto that vreato.

If we end up starting Meacham and Holdren in the same game at any point, I give up.

No way 40% of our starting lineup should ever come from Centennial HS players, and mid-major players at that (i.e. Dayton and South Dakota St.).

Posted by ralexander on September 5, 2007 at 4:05 PM

That sucks,he was our only hope in Chicago.Not only do we lose recruit's from this state now a coach also.Sounds like something is going on behind the scene.

Posted by dkrus on September 5, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Wow! how many more years of this!

Posted by dkrus on September 5, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Police review boards are not an "experiment" as they exist elsewhere (and have for a long time) and they do just fine. I suppose if it didn't happen within seeing distance of the NG or outside of John Foreman's smoke filled office, then it must be "experimental". The use of the word "experiment" is also NG code for "we don't agree with this" and the condescending tone of this editorial is quite insulting to folks with even a modest level of intellect and reasoning.

Posted by mattvarbl on September 6, 2007 at 6:01 AM

Agreed Ralexander !! Seems we didnt get the rercruiting push from playing for the National Championship that one could rightfully expect and unfortunately it looks like Brian Randle will be the poster for unfulfilled expectations...another injury !??

Posted by FearTheChief on September 6, 2007 at 7:43 AM

This shouldn't come to mind but, how long has this change been in the mill, before or after Liggins made his decision. I agree this sucks. Any bets on where Miller ends up.

Posted by jarmstrong on September 6, 2007 at 9:38 AM

it's bad enough that tracy left, it is

even worse when you consider where he

is going

Posted by walker on September 6, 2007 at 9:16 PM

we didnt get the recruits with webster, that is a fact - therefore, we needed this change. this is a great opportunity for the program and for the right guy to completely change the momentum.

Posted by swatlas on September 7, 2007 at 12:29 AM

FYI-

I checked how my representatives voted on this. As you can deduce from the story above, Frerichs voted for for the bill. Jakobsson voted against.

The N-G editorial states the case very clearly. I think that respect for the U.S. and Illinois Constitutions is a basic requirement for our elected representatives, and those that don't show that respect don't deserve ours.

Posted by twhurlbutt on September 7, 2007 at 6:00 AM

Webster was smart to leave. Sad to say but Illinois is no closer to being an elite program than they were when BW was hired. It's as if the '04-'05 season never happened.

Posted by mkasper on September 7, 2007 at 12:27 PM

Loren, it's about time you realized the basketball program is on the decline.

And it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Posted by ralexander on September 7, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Loren, some of these comments belong more on the various message boards than here.

Your analysis of the "character of the squad" makes more sense than all the "conspiracy theories" combined and is almost so obvious that one can miss it.

I do agree, and sense that you do too, that this hire is an important milestone in the BW regime and await the outcome -- and your comments -- with interest.

Posted by jeffh on September 7, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Loren,

Your analysis is excellent as always. However, isn't the "character of the squad" reflective of the type of players that Weber likes to recruit?

It seems that Weber struggles to land any player who has a big ego and likes to be treated like a king.

Weber may just be too "old school" to deal with today's recruiting.

Posted by aratnakar on September 7, 2007 at 1:21 PM

I take this as a positive. Webster has been the lead recruiter on many of the recent misses. New blood could be just what the Illini need to start pulling in more high power recruits.

Posted by tyerkey on September 7, 2007 at 1:27 PM

Darius Miller, the recruit you mentioned, just verballed to Kentucky. he said the main reason was Webster. Nuff said.

Posted by mkasper on September 7, 2007 at 2:22 PM

Henson was a pretty fair coach, but he had to go because recruiting fizzled. The same may happen to BW. He may be good at the blackboard, but he obviously can't attract the horses. Sorry -- that's reality.

Posted by vreato on September 7, 2007 at 2:58 PM

I don't think Dee was the recruiter you make him out to be. He may have helped with Deron and James, but what about after that? You list a number of players that Illinois has missed and some of those were during Dee's tenure. I don't know what the problem is, but I am sure opposing coaches are saying BW cannot recruit, so if you go there, you may be the only star player.

Posted by gnelson on September 7, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Not surprisingly, other opinion pieces have a different view. Lets see, 24 years ago, I imagine rules for plagarism were different then today. As well at least one article I read said rules for plagarism in a disseration are sometimes differnt then like say an article for a news paper.

Comments on the SIU paper site seem to slant towards the Alumni and Faculty Against Corruption at SIU being on a "witch hunt" and "mccarthyism". They are the group that apparently anomonously justifies their existence and position of oversight by accusing others.

Posted by wmb on September 7, 2007 at 4:03 PM

Webster was a good guy but I don't see

any evidence that he was that good of a

recruiter as he got close on numerous

players, but still did not reel them in.

I say new blood is just what we need.

Posted by walker on September 7, 2007 at 8:49 PM

Webster was a failure at Illinois. This is the best thing that could have happened, and it represents a tremendous opportunity for Weber and Guenther to hit a home run and transform Illinois into a recruiting giant - but who will bet on them to have the insight, thirst for excellence, and guts to hire the right guy?

Posted by swatlas on September 8, 2007 at 11:48 PM

are u nuts ? u had better take a hard look at the place. sounds like u r following in tate's foot steps. i guess michigan & ohio r better?

Posted by mustwhiz on September 9, 2007 at 1:24 AM

Why in the world would you list Marcus Mason? The guy was nothing but trouble, and the NCAA swooped-in and penalized the Illini because of this guy.

Posted by mbeesley on September 9, 2007 at 7:33 PM

I would have to agree that the Big Ten is awfully suspect this year. This is an opportunity for the Illini to finally get over the hump and finish games. They won alot of halftimes last year, but wilted in the second half. It's time for the team to step up collectively finish what they start.

Posted by kellytm on September 10, 2007 at 7:58 AM

Does the idea of Richmond, DJ Ricardson, and Colvin playing together remind you of when our committed Eric Gordon then played with Derrick Rose, ultimately leading to the DEcommitment of Gordon? Some may say this could lead to DJ or Colvin coming on board with Richmond; for me, it spells potential disaster ...

Posted by swatlas on September 10, 2007 at 11:45 AM

It's amazing how recruits seem to buy in

to Ron Zook's enthusiasm about the future. I say we pay R Z a big bonus and

let him head up basketball recruiting as

well.

Posted by walker on September 10, 2007 at 12:36 PM

Good points about Jerrance, Loren. I was waiting to see what your thoughts were -- you're convincing me he could just be "The Guy."

Posted by jeffh on September 11, 2007 at 12:17 PM

Hilarious!

And I bet they think Baghdad is a hours drive from London -- I mean London, England in case they're unsure!

Posted by jeffh on September 11, 2007 at 12:19 PM

Re Joe White and the chief; the real problem is that Jim Stukel didn't resolve this issue by taking the unpopular, unfair, but inevitable decision so that White and the chancellor didn't have to begin their tenures dealing with Emil Jones and the too-long-running controversy.

Posted by jjohnson on September 11, 2007 at 1:13 PM

Jerrance is probably too inexperienced

but nothing else seems to be working,

recruiting wise so why not? He could help with D.J. I would assume.

Posted by walker on September 11, 2007 at 1:52 PM

The last thing we need is an inexperienced coach learning on the ropes.

That would be the death knell for this program.

Posted by ralexander on September 11, 2007 at 2:39 PM

Probably the influence of Nancy Cantor. I hope Coach Zook dons a chief's head dress for Saturday's game.

Posted by Lanse on September 11, 2007 at 4:12 PM

I hope Howard can recruit better than he could play?

Posted by vreato on September 12, 2007 at 9:24 AM

If you think that Richmond's situation is anything like Gordon's, you're just not paying attention.

Posted by jeohaver on September 12, 2007 at 10:10 AM

The Big Ten is weak. All the more reason Illinois should be able to post a better conference record and have a shot at 6-6 and bowl eligibility. These next two games with Syracuse and Indiana will measure how far the Illini have come from last year, or how much they still lack.

Posted by kellytm on September 12, 2007 at 2:28 PM

I have to admit that the Big Ten is embarassingly weak this year. I live in Florida and I hear that all the time from my SEC and ACC friends. I don't understand what has happend to the Big Ten in recent times. I am hoping that Illinois can rise to the top of the conference faster than we thought due to the lack of competition.

Posted by Lanse on September 12, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Get Howard...NON!

Posted by dallen on September 12, 2007 at 4:33 PM

Ah check that... Get Howard NOW!!!

Posted by dallen on September 12, 2007 at 4:34 PM

The last thing this program needs is a coach with no experience and no ties in Chicago.

It would be the death knell of the program.

Posted by ralexander on September 12, 2007 at 6:57 PM

Rewarding people that has never been on your team never works. Reward those that have ability and have been loyal---GET HOWARD

Posted by jarmstrong on September 13, 2007 at 9:38 AM

Bob:

Presumably, Nancy Cantor will be wearing her orange garb and cheering madly for Syracuse. That ought to be a special motivating factor for the Illini, at least the Seniors. I'm not sure she showed up when she was in champaign.

Ron Meadows

Posted by rmeadows on September 13, 2007 at 2:18 PM

how about if we shoot really high and do whatever it takes to get the absolute best, like winners should, instead of playing it safe ...

maybe we should let Zook pick our new basketball assistant coach?

Posted by swatlas on September 13, 2007 at 3:04 PM

The seniors should tie Nancy Cantor to a blocking sled and drive it to the nearest river.

Posted by mbeesley on September 13, 2007 at 9:54 PM

Hey wouldn't the "all orange" approach

look pretty ridiculous though tomorrow

Bob

Posted by walker on September 14, 2007 at 3:09 PM

Maybe the lack of production by the tight ends has to do with the fact that only two balls have been thrown to them. In a spread offence, maybe they should be looked at first, rather than last, ala Missouri.

Give them a chance - give them the ball.

Posted by rmiller on September 14, 2007 at 6:04 PM

Personally, I think this "fad" is ridiculous and the best way to "deal" with the obnoxious fools that choose to wear their clothes in this "fashion" is to LAUGH uproriously while pointing at the idiots.

Posted by FReRydr on September 14, 2007 at 8:48 PM

Maybe only two balls have been thrown to them because they drop every ball thrown their way.

Posted by ralexander on September 14, 2007 at 10:00 PM

While I am generally in favor of more accountability to the public by the UI and other public bodies, the News-Gazette has it wrong here.

Many aspects of employment for a public body are a matter of public record. The identities of UI employees hired and dismissed is readily available to the public, as are the salaries of each and every UI employee.

However, as a general principle, even public employees are entitled to expect that their personnel files be private. Discussions about personnel matters are specifically exempted from the provisions for the Illinois Open Meetings Act; likewise, personnel records are not available for public request under the state freedom of information act.

Though both laws may have loopholes which permit public servants to make decisions without accountability to the public, I think the exemptions I mentioned are right and proper.

If there is criminal behavior in the PTI case, the evidence will be made public in due course. Barring that eventuality, the UI is entitled to dismiss an employee or accept his or her resignation without opening up the employee's personnel file to the News-Gazette.

Posted by JRR on September 15, 2007 at 11:42 PM

we may not be there yet, but we won't get "there" without being where we are now -- so I'm highly encouraged by this win.

Posted by jeffh on September 16, 2007 at 12:34 PM

This is another case of why so many in this country find politicians and the political games they play despicable. For or against the war, the constant personal attacks on those that disagree with you in the political arena has gone to far. Until politicians start discussing issues with maturity and respecting the other side, the people in this country and this country itself will remain divided. What we need most in this country are a few policiticians we can actually respect, and it doesn't matter which party they are from.

Posted by wmb on September 16, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Why did you not hear any suggestions to General Petraeus from all the arrogant "ARMCHAIR" "Commanders-in-Chiefs" on how they would go about WINNING the conflict in Iraq?

I suggest the Demoncrats "hate-Bush-and-his-policy-at-any-cost" strategy to LOSE is in jepardy because WE ARE WINNING AND CAN BE VICTORIUS in this BATTLE in the "WAR ON TERROR(ISTS)"!!

THE DEMONCRATS CANNOT AFFORD FOR US TO WIN!! THEIR TERRORIST ALLIES ARE COUNTING ON THEM!!

Posted by FReRydr on September 16, 2007 at 10:00 PM

Seeing who the Illini and Indiana have both played, I'd say that, if both teams play their best game, we should win. The only way Indiana should win is if they play their best game and we have an almost completely off day.

I'd hope that last year's result would give the Illini some extra motivation, too.

Posted by jeffh on September 17, 2007 at 12:14 PM

Indiana will be a dangerous team on Saturday. We had them down last year and blew the game after changing our course and playing not to lose. If our guys play with focused intensity, it should be an Illinois victory. However, that is a big "if".

Posted by Lanse on September 17, 2007 at 2:07 PM

Thar is the best victory for Illinois in a long time...they havew at least 2 upsets in their system now that they play the big dogs.

Posted by dallen on September 17, 2007 at 10:45 PM

changing our course...thats a nice way to put it. let's hope locksely learned his lesson.

Posted by plogli on September 18, 2007 at 1:23 AM

Go Illini. It is time to beat those pesky Hoosiers. We gave the game away last year. Take it to them this year!

Posted by Lanse on September 18, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Thought the win over Western Illinois didn't count towards the 6 wins necessary to qualify for a bowl bid. Did this rule change?

Posted by thornyton on September 19, 2007 at 11:27 AM

More and more, it sounds like Coach Weber may have hit his own home run by bringing Jerrance home!

All the best Jerrance -- Go Illini!!

Posted by jeffh on September 20, 2007 at 1:13 PM

We are behind you, Jerrance. It is great to have a new assistant coach/recruiter who bleeds the orange and blue. Go Illini!!!!

Posted by Lanse on September 20, 2007 at 3:10 PM

beat IU,

, then we can talk.

Posted by vreato on September 20, 2007 at 3:36 PM

Talk is cheap; I'll believe Howard is a recruiter when I see the results. I'm behind him, I just don't think he'll do any better than what Webber already has on staff.

Posted by dguire on September 20, 2007 at 3:55 PM

Rates may be mis-quoted. Currently I pay $37.20 for 800 cubic feet of water used. This averages out to be $0.0465/cubic foot, or $2.325/50 cubic feet; nothing near the the editorials "...$3.05 per cubic foot of water..."

According to the editorial, at $3.05/cubic foot, my first 50 cubic feet of water used would be $152.50. My total bill for 800 cubic feet would be approximately $1665.50. Someone is not paying attention to the units which is about 8th or 9th grade level math.

Posted by twaynemayes on September 20, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Let Williams open up and throw the ball...

Posted by dallen on September 20, 2007 at 4:30 PM

Howard can't miss. We are lucky to have him.Good luck.

Posted by jlacava on September 20, 2007 at 8:38 PM

The poisoned nature of political debate in Washington is due in large part to the arrogant "our way or the highway" attitude of the Bush Administration. The Administration has consistently whown utter contempt for compromise or accountability and has repeatedly demanded that the two other co-equal branches of government follow their marching orders rather than maintain their traditional (and constitutional) independence.

The Democratic leadership in the Senate acknowledges that a president (any president) is entitled to nominate his subordinates. However, the Senate has its constitutional prerogatives as well -- namely the right to grant or withhold consent for the president's choices.

The United States Constitution states that the President "shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States,"

The Constitution does not provide a time limit for the Senate to take action, nor does it specify the criteria by which the Senate judges a candidate. How the Senate approves a nominee is its prerogative, conducted in accordance with its rules of procedure, just as the process by which the President selects a candidate is entirely his prerogative. It makes no difference which party controls Congress and the White House. The principle of advise and consent and the balance of powers are fundamental to our system of government.

Mukasey's high degree of competence and his track record of independence assures him of eventual approval by the Senate. In the meantime, I don't object to the Senate holding the Administration's feet to the fire by demanding answers to what happened to the Justice Department under Gonzalez's watch before his replacement is approved. The President needs to learn eventually that Congress isn't his lap dog and that compromise is a two-way street.

Posted by JRR on September 20, 2007 at 10:27 PM

Yep, I was there with as a student in the MI. We went over as a pep band.

I hope we can win tomorrow by that score!!

Posted by rbarnes on September 21, 2007 at 8:50 AM

Hey, dguire, how would you like your crow...grilled, baked, maybe smoked???

Posted by jeohaver on September 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

I'll say it in advance: beating IU will be an accomplishment not to be minimized

Posted by jjohnson on September 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

I'm still not over last year's loss to Indiana, that was devistating. Illini are a better team this year, but IU probably is as well. So I'll agree with the above comment: beating the Hoosiers @ Bloomington will be really tough. As always, I expect a win. But won't be totally shocked if the Illini don't get it done.

Posted by cjcohen on September 21, 2007 at 1:15 PM

Illinois needs to turn the corner for real this time. Yes, Indiana has some talented skill players. Illinois is deeper and should prevail if we can play our top game and not kill ourselves with our own miscues. It is time to get it done and go 3-1 for this young season.

Posted by Lanse on September 21, 2007 at 4:00 PM

Just as I thought last week was a season defining game, this week is as well. A win against a quality IU team (wow, when was the last time that was said about an IU football team!!) will go long and far about defining both the 2007 UI football team and the Ron Zook era of UI football.

Go Illini!!!

Posted by rbarnes on September 21, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Be reasonable, if we can't beat the Indiana Hoosiers, we are significantly farther behind the pace we expected out of Ron Zook. We have a team FULL of play makers. They have 3. The only chance they have is coaching our balls off, which has often been the downfall of Zook's staff.

Posted by plogli on September 22, 2007 at 6:16 AM

Boy oh boy. What a difference a year makes. Those that have had doubt in the Zook regime should take a close look at Saturdays game vs. the Hoosiers. Quite simply the Illini have more talent and speed than the Hoosiers. As you pointed out, the Hoosiers have the "big Three," but other than Hardy,Lewis and Thigpen, the cupboard is bare.

NOT THE ILLINI's. I realize that the Hoosiers are not a top ten opponent...not even close. But, I am looking at this in the long term. This is a building block for the future. Hopefully the Illini will acquit themselves well in the upcoming weeks against the perennial powers of the Big Ten such as Penn St, Wisconsin and Ohio St. Given the fact that the Illini will play hard and be competitive. and praying for another strong recruiting class by Coach Zook and his staff, the Illini could be well on their way to building the foundation for a long term Football Powerhouse. Much like we have seen accomplished just to the North of us in Madison Wisconsin.

Loren, thank you for your wonderful insight and your honest reporting of ILLINI sports over the past couple of decades. I enjoy your work more with each passing year. THANK YOU!!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on September 23, 2007 at 5:26 AM

Lou Tepper is a classy man that lives out what he believes

Posted by tburrus on September 23, 2007 at 5:55 AM

Okay "VREATO"...... can we "TALK" NOW???

GREAT JOB and congrats to Coach Zook and to the entire Illini Football program!! I know it is only INDIANA, But, it is a road--Big Ten victory...!!!! Great job!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on September 23, 2007 at 5:56 AM

Everybody acts as if losing Webster is such a big deal....but ak yourself this; who did Webster recruit for the U of I that is such a fantasstic "GET?" Kentucky can have him for all I care.

Jerrance was and is "ORANGE AND BLUE THROUGH AND THROUGH." He is a high character guy whom has always conducted himself with the utmost of class. I am thrilled with his signing.

God Bless Jerrance Howard. Congratulations and good luck.!!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on September 23, 2007 at 6:12 AM

Williams has to start passing better or there will be no more success against better foes. You'd figure after all these starts he'd start figuring out the meaning of putting a little "touch" in his pass???

Posted by dguire on September 23, 2007 at 1:00 PM

If we could only develop a passing game, Mendenhall will break Illini rushing records.

Posted by dguire on September 23, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Succinctly describing the attitude of certain Chicago Public League denizons would require language not printable here.

That also applies to some of the media there who rejoice in keeping sore festering.

Posted by jeffh on September 23, 2007 at 4:54 PM

It's too bad M. Butkovich wasn't Knight's assistant -- she would've shown him how to have class, not that he's capable of having any!

Posted by jeffh on September 23, 2007 at 4:59 PM

When the offense comes onto the field now, you can sense the confidence in the line that it can block anybody. Great progress!

Posted by jjohnson on September 23, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Dear Loren. As always you are right on target. The Illini finally got the "Hosses" to dig in and beat the Hoosiers at the line of attack. This is where the Illini routinely would get whipped in the past. Especially as the game got into the 3rd and 4th quarter. The Illini wouldn't have the depth to keep up with other BIG TEN teams and would lose the battle of the pits. This would result in losing the game.

But, with Coach Zook and his staff recruiting like no other Illini Football Coaching staff has ever recruited, finally the Illini can play for four quarters with just about any of the Big Teams. I know it was only Indiana, but I believe we will see a huge demonstration of the football programs progress in the next game via a perennial power house--Penn State, where I predict the Illini will score a huge upset.!!! Mark my words on it.

Thank you Loren. I appreciate your work more and more as the years go on.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on September 24, 2007 at 12:29 AM

PSU hasn't defeated anyone of importance. Why can't we win this one???

Go Illini!!!

Posted by rbarnes on September 24, 2007 at 9:30 PM

The spin control on this hire is beyond belief.

We hired a guy with NO COACHING EXPERIENCE for our most important assistant position. Yikes.

Posted by ralexander on September 24, 2007 at 9:51 PM

He may break them anyway with the way this team is running.

Posted by ralexander on September 24, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Actually, I would say the 2002 game at home vs. #1 (in the BCS) Ohio State was pretty important. We lost, but it went to overtime, and a win would have kept us in line for a bowl bid.

Posted by ralexander on September 25, 2007 at 12:06 AM

As an educator at Urbana High School, I must say that the picture of UHS painted by the author of this editorial is certainly horrible. In fact, if this was the WHOLE picture of what is happening at UHS,I might have difficulty working here. The fact of the matter is however, that the car incentive is one of MANY initiatives that the school and the district are taking to get students to start attending school.

Dr. Taylor is right in saying that there are indeed students who just don't see the value of going to school. I would say that this statement has been true for decades. Even during the golden age of education in which "The old-fashioned and time-tested incentive of getting an education in order to advance oneself" was the only incentive available to convince students attend school regularly, there were students who didn't see the value of being there. Of course, during the golden age, students were allowed to drop out of school at younger ages and there were actually well paying jobs available for folks that didn't have a high school education.

This is a different world and we need to prepare our students for it. That is why it is our job as educators to get students to come to school by using as many techniques as we can. If this means giving away a car in conjunction with calling EVERY PARENT EVERY DAY A STUDENT MISSES CLASS in conjunction with home visits in conjunction with anything else that we can think of, then WE DO IT!

It is a shame that the author of this article did not come to talk with Dr. Taylor or any other member of the UHS administrative team before they decided to point fingers to indicate "how far public education in Urbana has fallen." If the author had, I believe that he or she would have found that our programs are working, and working well. I challenge this author to come to the school and see the symphonies of teaching that occur every day at UHS.

Posted by dbechtel on September 25, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Oh my! I haven't seen such accusatory rhetoric since your last editorial about our esteemed governor--which, unlike this editorial, is usually well-deserved.

Truth is, you're missing the point. Please stop blaming schools for society's problems and start blaming society for society's problems.

As a society, we're letting parents get by with non-parenting. We expect public schools to pick up the slack. If our state's attorney would get tougher on the parents who allow their under-17 children to not attend school, if our court system would start punishing parents who don't fulfill their parental obligations, perhaps schools wouldn't be giving cars away as an incentive to kids who otherwise wouldn't be in a classroom.

(By the way, where was your scathing editorial a few years ago when Garden Hills School in Champaign was giving away bicycles as attendence incentives?)

Don't throw poverty incomes at me, and parents who are working 3 jobs so they can't parent, and similar excuses. Parents are tired, I get it, but their first responsibility in this world is to their children and there's no way around that. And there's a lot of upper-income folks who don't parent either. They give their children Game Boys or their own cars when they're older, and leave it up to television to raise their kids.

If our children are not learning values in the home, and the value of an education is only one lesson they're missing out on, then as a society we need to begin to emphasize the importance of home. We've been placing our values on things, not people, and that needs to stop. We've become complacent about a number of things and we're sacrificing our children in the process.

Public schools won't succeed until our society changes its own value system. It's a tough road, but we need to start somewhere.

Posted by kjw on September 26, 2007 at 9:02 AM

@ jeffh: Dude, what the heck does Knight have to do w/ this article?

Posted by jmeans on September 26, 2007 at 12:57 PM

This article is ridiculous. Once again, the News-Gazette has done everything it can to put down the educators and administrators in this community. If you wrote this article or if you just read it - that ability was made possible by your attendance at school.

Although the automated parent - calling system AND the car AND the special monitoring/contracting of students with previous attendance problems STILL might not make kids come to school, at least UHS is working hard and doing everything they can.

And I certainly don't see why the newpaper should criticize that - - Unless, of course, the reporter played hookey from high school journalism class on the day they taught "how to select a worthwhile topic."

Posted by srk on September 26, 2007 at 3:53 PM

Why do all of Asmussen's articles appear to end so abruptly, as if they were cut off or never finished?

How about some actual reporting Asmussen, instead of recycling story ideas that weren't interesting when you wrote the same column 10 years ago.

Like, what about a little bit more detail on Troy Pollard? What's happening with D'Angelo McCray? What's the status on guys like Anthony Morris or Deries Hodge - are they still going to try and make it?

What's going with recruiting? How about an actual practice report during the season? How is Zook preparing the team for Penn St.?

How about an actual interview oustide of a press conference that gives us an idea of the team's mindset during the week, how their attitude is, and how they're dealing with a winning streak that we haven't seen in 5 years.

It would be nice to get some actual information on the football team from the hometown newspaper.

A column about Joe Paterno's longetivity in coaching was old news before Penn St. joined Big Ten.

Posted by ralexander on September 27, 2007 at 9:41 PM

thanks for picin' us to lose again. I

was relieved to see you wasn't going

for an Illini win!

Posted by walker on September 28, 2007 at 1:33 PM

Jim, what is your opinion on our team? You never seem to think we have a chance.

Walker is right.

Posted by aratnakar on September 28, 2007 at 1:39 PM

"When I grow up I want to be overworked and under-appreciated." Oh, ok that explains it.

Posted by Hoot on September 28, 2007 at 2:47 PM

illinois 24 penn state 13

Posted by jlacava on September 28, 2007 at 4:54 PM

Not Reggie Evans but Reggie Ellis.

Who is doing the copyediting over there?

Posted by ralexander on September 28, 2007 at 10:54 PM

When the words, "I AM SIGNING A LETTER OF INTENT TO GO TO SCHOOL AND TO PLAY FOOTBALL FOR THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS came out of Rejus Benn's mouth, the screams of impropriety could be heard from South Bend, and all the way to the state of Florida. As if it were totally absurd that a five star recruit would even consider the Illini as an alternative..... Well, guess what.... "WE'RE BACK."

You hate to put so much pressure on one kids back, but, after watching R.B play against Penn State it became clear very early on that he can handle the heat...and more. It was like watching a man playing a game against children. Every time R.B. touched the ball the crowd could be heard exhaling loudly, like they were out of breath just watching this dynamo. I love it. The ILLINI actually have a play-maker, a touchdown maker, and a recruiting assistant par excellence.... ' GO ILLINI and great coverage to you guys at the Champaign News-Gazette, Awesome job.....

Posted by guitaraxe1 on September 29, 2007 at 11:12 PM

How great it is to see Illini football competitive again. I believe that we can go into any can and have a chance to win now. Football is fun again!

Posted by Lanse on September 30, 2007 at 12:39 PM

J. Leman makes us all proud. What a great student-athlete who is a product of Champaign-Urbana. I hope he earns all kinds of post-season honors.

Posted by Lanse on September 30, 2007 at 12:44 PM

Why nothing on the visit of Mario Little

yesterday? How did it go? Did he attend the big win and did the atmosphere help

with a kid that Kansas wants? Who else

visited Saturday with him?

Posted by walker on September 30, 2007 at 4:34 PM

I sure hope RG doesn't put the kibosh on the in-stands celebration(s). It was perhaps the coolest thing I've witnessed in 28 years of attending Illini games!!!

Posted by rbarnes on September 30, 2007 at 9:11 PM

The defense can't continue to withstand so many short field assaults. If the conventional punting doesn't get any better, Zook should consider the rugby style punts again. Santella was terrible.

Posted by kellytm on September 30, 2007 at 9:14 PM

I think you would have to consider Eddie Johnson as well. His baseline jumpshot to beat number 1 ranked Michigan State and Magic Johnson is still one of the all time highlights at the Hall. He had a long and successful career in the NBA as well.

Posted by kellytm on September 30, 2007 at 9:33 PM

The Illini made us all proud Saturday and I hope this is a harbinger of things to come. Loren, you are absolutely on target with your comments under the "Forward thinking" section of your article. The Illini have to learn how to throw the ball when the opposition lines up with "8 in the box." I think Zook gave Juice a total wake-up call when he brought in McGee. Let's see if it makes Juice stronger for it.... THANKS LOREN...!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 1, 2007 at 2:00 AM

I can promise you, no finer student athlete can be found on this campus than J Leman.

Posted by plogli on October 1, 2007 at 2:06 AM

The University of Illinois once again proves it is the definitive "LINEBACKER U," of College football making Penn State green with envy. With such illustrious predecessors such as Ray Nitschke, Dick Butkus, J. Sullivan, John "Mr. Pike" Gillen, Jack Squirek, J.Holecek, K. Hardy, and now Leman, the Illini have had a pretty darn good run with their linebackers. I know I didn't list a few there, but this is long enough....

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 1, 2007 at 8:13 AM

You don't see to many broke bookies !!!!

Posted by lflodin on October 2, 2007 at 1:00 PM

I guess this definitely means that if

Wisconsin wins, it's a mild upset??

Further, if we win then it must be

because we were supposed (or favored to

win) all along. Go figure

Posted by walker on October 2, 2007 at 1:04 PM

Hopefully Jeremiah Deakin doesn't work in a nuclear power plant or vote. Why don't the "higher ups" of the bottom 5 B10 football programs simply put pressure on their football players to produce? Ron Gunther must feel silly that he din't think about putting pressure on Ron Turner et al, to produce or that he didn't start the renovation of Memorial Stadium sooner. At last, Prometheus has shared the secret of successful football programs.

Posted by mbeesley on October 2, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Hopefully Jeremiah Deakin doesn't work in a nuclear power plant or vote. Why don't the "higher ups" of the bottom 5 B10 football programs simply put pressure on their football players to produce? Ron Gunther must feel silly that he din't think about putting pressure on Ron Turner et al, to produce or that he didn't start the renovation of Memorial Stadium sooner. At last, Prometheus has shared the secret of successful football programs.

Posted by mbeesley on October 2, 2007 at 2:59 PM

As far as I know, oddsmakers aren't intersted in projecting who the better team is....they are only interested in determining how many points one team has to give to make the money bet on each team roughly equal...a different prospect...what the current spread tells us is that people apparently won't bet on Wisconsin unless they get some points.

Posted by lewicki on October 2, 2007 at 3:17 PM

I actually agree that Illinois should win this game according to raw talent but I don't know if they have grown enough mentally to pull it off. Illinois could surprise a lot of people this year including Ohio State but they must beieve in themselves.

Posted by dallen on October 2, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Illinois 31 Wisconsin 24

Posted by jlacava on October 2, 2007 at 6:43 PM

Loren, excellent as usual. Slight correction, we went 6-5-1 in '88 not 8-4. That was '90 with Verduzco at the helm.

I agree - stick with Juice. If we need Eddie, bring him in for a series or two. Running the ball is not as "hip" as passing, but it's doing the job this year.

I remember every year Mike White would say he wanted a balanced running and passing attack. We'd try 3 or so running plays in the first game, get a yard or so and then go back to the aerial circus.

I'd prefer a passing dominated offense, it's more fun to watch, but the W is all that matters!!

Posted by rbarnes on October 3, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Yep, that's was when we used to call them the "BADgers".

Go Illini!!!!

Posted by rbarnes on October 3, 2007 at 12:31 PM

Looks to me like juice & McGee are almost identical in talent, style of play, etc. It would probably be better if at least one of them had better overall passing talent.

Posted by walker on October 3, 2007 at 1:07 PM

Why not have McGee routinely take a series at the start of the second half? Other teams have used a pre-determined rotation to keep the second string QB involved. It definitely, avoids insering him only when things are going south, and should help Juice relax more to in the second half.

Posted by kellytm on October 3, 2007 at 1:18 PM

Have to agree with kellytm on Eddie J, who was a crucial contributor to UI's transition from also-ran to post-season mainstay. I think Sergio had a distinguished 4 year stay too, and he continues to be a face for the program around the State.

Posted by knystrom on October 3, 2007 at 1:25 PM

Kurt Steger was a very good QB that was never the same with Moeller monkeying at the controls.

Posted by mbeesley on October 3, 2007 at 4:12 PM

If the QB rotations are situational, and both QBs know when and how they will rotate, it should be fine.

But constantly rotating QB never works. NEVER. It is always a failure, at all levels of football.

A QB has to not only be in the rhythm of the game, but can't have his confidence shaken by constantly looking over his shoulder if he makes a bad throw.

Posted by ralexander on October 3, 2007 at 5:34 PM

Freshman of the Year: Regus Benn

Posted by swatlas on October 3, 2007 at 7:40 PM

Well, that's good, now I only miss 30 minutes instead of 60...

Posted by rbarnes on October 4, 2007 at 2:16 PM

Remember how much fun being at the stadium was before TV time-outs? I do, and I miss it! Now it's as though we fans are just backdrop for a TV show.

Posted by jjohnson on October 4, 2007 at 3:17 PM

What does cutting Zook's show in half have to do with being at the stadium?

Posted by ralexander on October 5, 2007 at 12:13 AM

thanks again Jim for picking another loss !

Posted by walker on October 5, 2007 at 11:49 PM

was this a clairvoyant article or what??? Woolford's "Wildcats" showed how far they have come in yesterdays fantastic victory over the Badgers. The fourth and one play with a minute to go in the fourth quarter clearly showed that the "O" line has come 180 degrees from last year. Repeatedly in dangerous situations the offensive line opened huge holes for our running backs and for Juice and for Eddie.... They also gave Juice time to deliver the ball to Benn and the other receivers. But it was in the running game where Woolford's "Wildcats" won the war of the trenches.....!!!! Today, I am as proud of our football team as I have ever been. Congrats Illini. Keep it going.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 7, 2007 at 12:16 AM

well, if brandon green wants to study computer technology---- it seems to me that the University of Illinois would be a lock considering the school is the home of the Super-computer and has the finest computer technology and computer engineering programs in the world.!!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 7, 2007 at 12:28 AM

This is a most encouraging article for someone who has been a loyal Illini fan ever since Jim Valek took over the football program following the slush-fund. I can remember times where the local authorities were not willing to work with the tailgaters and local revelers, making the game day experience not as welcoming as it is now. I believe a great amount of congrats would have to go out to the Athletic Directors office for reaching out to the local authorities and working with them to make the game day experience an exciting, entertaining---and yet, safe experience for all types of Illini fans.... Go Illini

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 7, 2007 at 12:59 AM

I have been at every game this year, and following the Syracuse game, when Syracuse's first TD was followed by a relentless drive to a TD by the Illini, I said, "that offensive line now has a swagger when it comes on the field." They have played brilliantly the last four weeks.

Posted by jjohnson on October 7, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Loren, this is proving to be such a great season. Last spring, I thought this would be like '99, but I think it is going to be even better. Is like '01 too optimistic?

Posted by jjohnson on October 7, 2007 at 12:58 PM

3 of the incompletion's were drops or bobbles; Juice played a complete game, and it is too easy to overlook how well he passed in the first half against Penn State. He's good and getting better.

Posted by jjohnson on October 7, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Great to see that Bob Richards is not forgotten!

Posted by jjohnson on October 7, 2007 at 1:22 PM

Great win for we inmates of florida !

jUS WHAT IS THE VEGAS INPUT INTO FORCASTING OUR ADVANTAGE OVER tHE BADBERS?

( i STILL DON'T GET IT !)

Posted by raycarlson on October 8, 2007 at 5:29 PM

Good points all around, but, as an optimist, why not say/hope we win multiple Big 10 titles, starting this year?!

Posted by jeffh on October 8, 2007 at 6:18 PM

Iowa will be tough and I hope does not go in there with a 14 point favorite. That is absurb because they can get beat reall easy!

Posted by dallen on October 8, 2007 at 9:04 PM

It's odd Jim that you are so optimistic

now, even though you have picked Illinois to lose nearly every game this

year !

Posted by walker on October 8, 2007 at 9:08 PM

I saw a young man come of age last Sat. The team came of age last Sat. The team wasn't going to grow up unless their leader grew up. Now that Juice has learned to play within himself, the rest of the playmakers are learning how to step up their play. Opposing defenses have to wonder what Coach Locksley is going to call next---to which one of the Illini playmakers is the call going to go? GO ILLINI!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 9, 2007 at 2:40 AM

Are there any good recruiting schools available in any of those cities that coach could attend in his free time?

Posted by jarmstrong on October 9, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Illinois is continually getting beat at the recruiting game and it's getting frustrating!!

Posted by dallen on October 9, 2007 at 12:25 PM

I agree with the inmate...why is Illinois getting the advantage by those who call the favorites in NCAA football? It just puts that more pressure on them as a young team. I don't get it!

Posted by dallen on October 9, 2007 at 12:34 PM

I don't think it is far-fetched at all to consider the possibility of Illinois playing at Columbus for the Big Ten championship. The schedule between now and then should have Illinois favored in every game, and the Illini eschewed a day off this week in order to get back to work. That, to me, tells me that the team has bigger aspirations than simply achieving bowl eligibility.

Posted by kellytm on October 9, 2007 at 12:50 PM

What is more important than just one year is exactly what Loren stated in his column; we need to build on our success. I want a consistent winner...I'm not asking for a National Title every year; I'm asking for a program that will see 6-5 as a down year. I think it can be done and frankly, it should be done...This is Illinois and not some small state school in a small conference.

It is weird how programs have their peaks and valleys...The Newspapers in Iowa City are all lamenting Ferentz and questioning his ability to recruit. Sound familiar???

Posted by dguire on October 9, 2007 at 1:03 PM

While I would love to see a "consistent winner" at this stage anything better than 6-5 would still be considered a highly successful season.

Posted by aratnakar on October 9, 2007 at 2:18 PM

As Loren has mentioned above, the one point that sets the current situation apart from the others is the consistently high recruiting success. I can't recall anyone -- Mike White et al -- achieving anything comparable.

Over the years, Loren has pointed to recruiting as what sustained Michigan and Ohio State at such high levels -- even mentioning that top HS players would willingly redshirt a year to ensure they were part of those caliber programs.

If we can reach that status -- and Loren has frequently pointed out that it takes several recruiting classes as opposed to basketball, where s single one can have a much greater impact -- then perhaps the Illini can finally become the powerhouse we want them to be.

And I, for one, will enjoy dreaming that very much!

Posted by jeffh on October 9, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Thank you Coach Zook for leading the way to what seems to be a very healthy program recovery and upgrade. Illinois will now be considered a most tough and respectable foe for any team in the nation to play. Oskee-Wow-Wow.

Posted by Lanse on October 9, 2007 at 3:53 PM

I hope all those who were dumping on Zook this time last year have learned something.

Posted by jjohnson on October 9, 2007 at 4:29 PM

I recall a statement by Zook to Ferentz about three years ago that Iowa's recruiting success in Illinois, more specifically Chicagoland, "was about to change". Smacking down the Hawkeyes this Sat in Iowa City will be mighty sweet.

Posted by bstouffer on October 9, 2007 at 7:23 PM

I would like to see the Illini build a football program where they would be perennial 8 game winners and in special years--10-11-12 game winners. With the new infrastructure being devised by Coach Guenther and his staff combined with the incredibe recruiting work ethic demonstrated by Coach Zook and his staff the Football program should be able to take the pick of the crop in Illinois every year instead of losing it to Michigan, Notre Dame , Wisconsin and Iowa like in years gone by.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 10, 2007 at 6:24 AM

Scheduling has an easy solution now that the NCAA allows 12 games; a full schedule with 2 non-conference games.

Throwing in a bye week as well, gives the players and coaches time to catch a mid-season break, but more importantly, the Big Ten doesn't end it's season so early which has become a problem with readiness for bowl games.

Posted by kellytm on October 10, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Illinois 35 Iowa 17

Posted by jlacava on October 10, 2007 at 5:48 PM

Actually, the fact that the dance and costume was made to look authentic is a reason why it is so offensive and explictly racist. The paint that is worn on the face, and the head dress are sacred to the Native American people. When a white person, who has not earned them in any way, wears these objects it is disrespectful. Also, the dance itself is not authenitc. It was entirely made up for the purposes of the sports event. A 1926 Boy Scout project developed the dance and costume, and the beat was developed by the band director. Even if it were a traditional Native American dance, as a public university they are held to the first amendment which separates church and state.

Posted by Tim on October 11, 2007 at 3:23 PM

Seriously, we're two days before the Iowa game and THIS is the only coverage the News-Gazette has of the football team?

How about a freaking practice report now and again? How about an actual interview with a player or a coach outside of a press conference.

How is the team preparing? What is the attitude of the players? How are they responding to success? What's going on with injuries.

I can't believe we pay $35 for this crap.

Posted by ralexander on October 12, 2007 at 4:04 AM

This is exactly what Coach Zook will eventually put an end to so the Illini don't lose an in-state recruit to the likes of Iowa, Wisc, ND', and Michigan....The Illini have not been able to recruit out of Chicago with any regularity since Pete Elliot was the Head Coach.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 12, 2007 at 5:17 AM

News-Gazette disdain of the poor strikes again.

Posted by mattvarbl on October 12, 2007 at 11:37 AM

Perhaps if drivers of passenger vehicles would realize that semi trucks cannot perform as passenger vehicles can, the fatality rate would drop even more. Semi trucks take longer to reach the speed limit and they definitely take longer to stop. Too bad that the drivers of passenger vehicles fail to realize that in some cases they are just as responsible for accidents involving semi trucks as the truck driver is, if not more.

Perhaps if people would learn to get off the cell phone and pay attention to the road as well as using turn signals, Illinois highways would be safer regardless of the truck speed limit.

I'm not saying truck drivers are not at fault in some cases, nor am I saying they are the best drivers out there but the majority of the passenger vehicles drivers need a refresher course in driver education.

Posted by hereagain on October 12, 2007 at 2:18 PM

Jim,

I'm very worried. You always pick Illinois's appt and you are always wrong.

For the sake of the team, please continue to pick the other teams over us.

Posted by aratnakar on October 12, 2007 at 2:24 PM

I agree - for the sake of superstition, Jim, please continue to pick again us!

Posted by ralexander on October 12, 2007 at 3:33 PM

Also, does the News-Gazette have a copy-editor anymore?

Illinous?

Matt Painter?

Red (Reda)?

This is ridiculous. In yesterday's edition, a sidebar claimed we only had two titles in the last 20 years. Nope. Three - '83, '90, and '01.

Posted by ralexander on October 12, 2007 at 3:40 PM

"Troubling" holding on to the football? COME ON. How many mistakes can a writer cram in to one column?

Posted by ralexander on October 12, 2007 at 3:42 PM

The same rules of physics that apply to MTD-student collisions apply to semi-truck vs. car collisions: the object that has the least mass, loses. No matter what the speed, f=ma.

Semi-trailers need to have their own special & separate lanes -- and they do -- they're called tracks. Train tracks are specifically designed to bear the extra weight and keep the mass under control. Put the trailers on trains, and when they get to their local destination, then get the low-speed in-town semi-tractors involved. Absolutely safe? No. But absolutely safER. Long & medium-haul semi-trucks should be banned and only low-speed local-haul trucks should be allowed.

Then they can go 65, or even 75. Just keep it on the tracks.

The comment on cell phone usage is spot-on. As Click & Clack, the Tappan brothers are fond of saying, 'Hang up and Drive'.

Posted by dw on October 12, 2007 at 4:54 PM

jim, glad to see you go way out on the

limb and pick us to win. Iowa must really be bad

Posted by walker on October 12, 2007 at 8:02 PM

Good stuff as usual Loren

Posted by lflodin on October 13, 2007 at 1:59 AM

We all know that Coach Guenther will some day retire or move on, but the very thought of it make me shudder with fear. He is worth 10 times what he is getting paid and could easily get it and more on the open market. As loyal as Coach Guenther has been to the Illini dating back to his football playing days for Pete Elliot, so I doubt that he would go to another school as an AD, but, as a GM or something in the pro ranks or in some other area in sports related fields he would be worth millions. Or, is it that he feels like he has done his share and put in his time..... and he is tired???? Only time will tell.

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 13, 2007 at 4:31 AM

Congrats to Coach Weber and his entire staff. This recruiting class could turn out to be one of the top three we have ever had in the history of the Illini B-Ball team....!!!

Go Illini.!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 13, 2007 at 5:27 AM

Coach Weber might have been a slow starter recruiting wise, but he seems to have gotten it together in a big way. WOW....!!!! Go Illini!!!!

Posted by guitaraxe1 on October 14, 2007 at 2:04 AM

Illinois will become bowl eligible with win(s) over Ball State and/or Minnesota-if they can defend Ball State's passing. It is now questionable whether they can win another Big Ten game other than Minnesota. Williams can't pass, allowing teams to stack against the run; the defense is defenseless against the pass-look for big numbers now that Henne and the Mich offense appear to be stabilized. A minor bowl is a reasonable expectation for a team without a pass rush or an accurate passer.

Posted by bstouffer on October 14, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Forcing the defense to play 2 additional plays, by taking the penalties on what would have been 4th down, is beyond the comprehension for even most 3rd grade Pop Warner coaches.

Posted by mbeesley on October 14, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Zook's 4th down calls? Incomprehensible!

Posted by mbeesley on October 14, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Big let down yesterday, the whole team looked flat. More than the bad coaching decisions on 4th down, the defenses inability to get off the field was the main problem. I also think it's time to let McGee run the show; I've seen nothing from Juice that would indicate he'll ever get the passing touch he needs. You can't become one dimensional on offense and expect to win a lot of games. McGee at least has touch and with experience, he'll not make so many mistakes.